New Build near MK, Bucks

[Ed_MK]

Good Morning All,

I am glad I found this forum ! ..and a big hello to you all

I hope to get some learned guidance and in turn (perhaps) help others !

 

Me and my wife are about to submit a full Planning application for our small plot of land to build
our house (it will be a Potton Design) 

We have had a favorable Pre-Application advice ...BUT of course with this application has come a slew of
OTHER things we need to consider and submit ...Tree and Ecological Survey (Done) Soil Phase 1 Desktop Survery
(Still looking for a low cost one, as the land has ALWAYS been pastureland ..it seems un-necessary ...but it has been asked for)
Also on the advice letter it mentioned ...site levels and spot levels

Now this site is SMALL ...and the bit we are building on is VERY flat ..the footprint of the house is 39x39 feet.
As money is tight (isn't it always) ...I was reading up on doing my OWN site levels ..I am certainly NOT from the building trade ...but I could borrow a dumpy level/ staff..and have been reading about "temporary datums" etc

..would this suffice ? I mean we are not in the middle of nowhere and there are houses all around?

If anyone has experience on this, I would be grateful for advice ...i think the words used in the letter were "site levels before and after" ..well I can of course get the necessary information on foundations ....as its a timber frame / SIPS construct and submit this with a grid of the land with readings from my borrowed dumpy ....but would this be enough?..from what I can see there cannot be more than several inches from the low to the high points ..If necessary i could take a shovel and make it as flat as a pancake for them LOL

your advice is appreciated

[SteamyTea]

Welcome Ed

 

I used to know MK well, worked and lived there in the early 00's.

Have you started to think about the energy usage of your new house, or are you happy to build to building regs?

[RichS]

For the levels I'd just find my AOD, you can get that near enough off OS maps, and then take a few level on site, jot them down on a drawing and submit.

If your planning dept.is anything like mine this is just a desk top excercise that someone feels like asking for and the levels will never be checked.

[ToughButterCup]

Hello, welcome.

One step at a time. Pre advice is just that; advice. Permission doesn't automatically follow. And the Conditions relating to the granting of permission seem to me to be hinted at in your post;

 

2 hours ago, Ed_MK said:

[...]

as the land has ALWAYS been pastureland ..it seems un-necessary ...but it has been asked for)
Also on the advice letter it mentioned ...site levels and spot levels

[...]

 

That bit about ALWAYS nature land might well be important. The bit about levels is -really is- important. Why?

Foul drainage. No foul drain, no house. 11m square. How are you going to organise foul drainage? Where are you discharging to?

 

Welcome to the Sleepless Nights Forum

There will never be a day or night from now on that you don't worry, fizz, think, hope, fantasise, agonise, hesitate, procrastinate, fulminate, dream about your house.

 

Making a compelling case for permission to build is important. Assemble your arguments, choose your planner carefully. 

 

Ask focused questions here - that helps us think with you. 

Good luck

Ian

[ProDave]

Try and pre empt the conditions by providing as much information in the planning application as you can. Anything not completely defined is an open door for a condition to approve those details later.

 

Site levels are easy. You can use an Ordnance datum if you can identify one. Otherwise make or choose any feature as a "Temporary bench mark" and reference all your levels to that, this is what I did. You need to show existing site levels and finished site levels. What are you going to do with all the excavated soil? in our case we used it to build up the ground levels so our site now slopes less than it did. That's the sort of information they are after. Also is there ant flood risk? look at the EA flood risk maps, make sure your finished levels are above any flood risk level in your area.

 

You can use a laser line or rotating level and a detector on a staff. If you are really tight like me and did not want to buy a detector then you can use just a level and staff, and do all your measurements at disk when you can see the laser with the naked eye over some distance.  

 

The third was is the good old water level. A length of hose with a clear section at each end, the water at the two ends will always be level with each other. 

 

Note the point above about drainage, that can be a show stopper.

[Ed_MK]

On 8/20/2017 at 07:45, SteamyTea said:

Welcome Ed

 

I used to know MK well, worked and lived there in the early 00's.

Have you started to think about the energy usage of your new house, or are you happy to build to building regs?

Good Morning Steamy!

regarding energy usage, i am of a belief that Potton/Timber/SIPS should be quite good, definitely better than my old
3 bed semi-detached in Manchester ...very chilly in t'winter

 

the house will be rendered on Panel on the first floor with brick clad on most of the lower storey. Triple glazed UPVC. We did look at the 
pressure treated triple glaze wood that Potton recommend ..it is beautiful ...but rather pricey after we worked it all out ....and these days of course
I was suprised you can get PVC in a myriad of colours and even surface textures
 

My wife wants it to be cosy and plans to have standard GCH upstairs and (if we can afford it, and nothing big crops up ....underfloor downstairs.

That's all I know as yet, sadly I am no expert. I will make sure the roof is well insulated and plan to spend a little extra on quality felting and stuff if required.

 

The covering will be variegated concrete tile / a fairly good mimic of terracotta (as far as I can see)

 

The house plan we went for is the Caxton J ...and there was a VERY similar house built a few years ago in the adjacent county ..I have attached a piccy

 

[Ed_MK]

4 hours ago, RichS said:

For the levels I'd just find my AOD, you can get that near enough off OS maps, and then take a few level on site, jot them down on a drawing and submit.

If your planning dept.is anything like mine this is just a desk top excercise that someone feels like asking for and the levels will never be checked.

Thanks Rich,

 

that is as much as i was planning ....and capable of to be honest. 

Fingers crossed

[Ed_MK]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

Try and pre empt the conditions by providing as much information in the planning application as you can. Anything not completely defined is an open door for a condition to approve those details later.

 

Site levels are easy. You can use an Ordnance datum if you can identify one. Otherwise make or choose any feature as a "Temporary bench mark" and reference all your levels to that, this is what I did. You need to show existing site levels and finished site levels. What are you going to do with all the excavated soil? in our case we used it to build up the ground levels so our site now slopes less than it did. That's the sort of information they are after. Also is there ant flood risk? look at the EA flood risk maps, make sure your finished levels are above any flood risk level in your area.

 

You can use a laser line or rotating level and a detector on a staff. If you are really tight like me and did not want to buy a detector then you can use just a level and staff, and do all your measurements at disk when you can see the laser with the naked eye over some distance.  

 

The third was is the good old water level. A length of hose with a clear section at each end, the water at the two ends will always be level with each other. 

 

Note the point above about drainage, that can be a show stopper.

Thanks Dave,

 

the land is literally "connected" to my In-Laws Garden ...and was once just an extension of it... No Flood Risk here at all as far as i can gather from looking at maps ...if anything
it is a rather "dry" area ...the soil composition is dark and peaty ..going down to stony/sand stuff ....and it drains REALLY fast ...unlike my old house which had clay close to the surface.

 

Excavated soil ..we can DEFINITELY use as the very far REAR of the plot ....that will form the end of the back garden ...DOES have a slope off and we could lose a few tons at least there and grade it out with no ill effect ...its good soil.

 

Its good you mentioned drainage and services though ...sadly due to the adoption of the land directly opposite ...it would be costly and complicated to connect to the OBVIOUS close points. But as we have a Wayleave? being drawn out ..we do plan to put the services effectively THROUGH the in-laws garden to the front of their property.

 

We have consulted Electric and Water and Gas and all these seem to be in agreement and have sent us plans of proposed "routes" ...I am hoping to do the digging myself as of course we are trying to save where we can . 

The only "sticker" is the waste water/sewage ....Around here most of the older properties (prior to 1990) are on private cesspits. For this reason I have had to look at practicalities of either a sealed unit or a water processor and soak away ..WE have also though long and hard about actually connecting the sewage in the same way as other services, and in turn we could effectively connect our in-laws house "on the way" and both share the benefit ...

 

But its a big pipe  and we are talking 50-60m from our site manhole (when it is in) to the fron of our in-laws property ...So I am not sure about falls and stuff and dont't want to litter my wifes parents land with copious manhole covers ....sigh.

 

Regarding the "finished levels" ...I am at a loss as how to know this (perhaps I am daft) ..I mean in a few days i will know the site levels and I will be getting the foundation/basework information from Pottons Contractor so i "suppose" together they would give me this ?

 

As you can probably see I am trying to do a fair bit of the management myself as we only have so much money to play with here ...and you can blame that on the NORTH SOUTH divide  My recently sold detached house in Manchester (in a half decent area) with big drive way for 4 cars wouldn't not even get me a 2 bed flat here with ONE parking space ...I am SERIOUS ...

 

But my In-laws are not in great health and my wife wanted to be close to them as they are of advancing years and so I up-sticked and threw my lot in with this project.

God Help me

[ProDave]

I am confused about the waste water drainage. If there is no mains (everyone else seems yo have a private system) then you will be looking at a waste treatment plant. Nothing difficult about that. BUT the processed water that comes out of it has to go somewhere.  That can be a watercourse or an infiltration field (soakaway)

 

You need to do a percolation test (well documented, dig a hole, fill it with water and time how long it takes to drain away) and from that you can calculate the area of soakaway you require. If your soil drains well it shouldn't be too big, but you have to find somewhere for it and building regs put limits on how close to a building, a road, a watervourse and your site boundary that it can be located.

 

A common solution (which we used at our last house) is to get an agreement from an adjacent farmer for the soakaway to go under one of his fields.

 

If you try to connect to your neighbours system, building control will very likely insist that is upgraded to current standards so that brings you back to all the same issues to solve.

 

I can't stress how important this is to solve. It caused us several weeks of worry as building control rejected our first drainage proposal, then SEPA rejected our second, it was only then, that SEPA gave us permission do discharge into the burn, something they only do up here if there is no other option (and by that point we had exhausted the other options)

[Ferdinand]

7 hours ago, Ed_MK said:

Good Morning All,

I am glad I found this forum ! ..and a big hello to you all

I hope to get some learned guidance and in turn (perhaps) help others !

 

Me and my wife are about to submit a full Planning application for our small plot of land to build
our house (it will be a Potton Design) 

We have had a favorable Pre-Application advice ...BUT of course with this application has come a slew of
OTHER things we need to consider and submit ...Tree and Ecological Survey (Done) Soil Phase 1 Desktop Survery
(Still looking for a low cost one, as the land has ALWAYS been pastureland ..it seems un-necessary ...but it has been asked for)
Also on the advice letter it mentioned ...site levels and spot levels

Now this site is SMALL ...and the bit we are building on is VERY flat ..the footprint of the house is 39x39 feet.
As money is tight (isn't it always) ...I was reading up on doing my OWN site levels ..I am certainly NOT from the building trade ...but I could borrow a dumpy level/ staff..and have been reading about "temporary datums" etc

..would this suffice ? I mean we are not in the middle of nowhere and there are houses all around?

If anyone has experience on this, I would be grateful for advice ...i think the words used in the letter were "site levels before and after" ..well I can of course get the necessary information on foundations ....as its a timber frame / SIPS construct and submit this with a grid of the land with readings from my borrowed dumpy ....but would this be enough?..from what I can see there cannot be more than several inches from the low to the high points ..If necessary i could take a shovel and make it as flat as a pancake for them LOL

your advice is appreciated

 

Welcome.

 

Site levels is not a thing I would skimp on -- since it is the foundation of everything else anda survey is not really very expensive, at perhaps £400-£700.

 

In your case I would have a survey done of the whole thing, including the existing, relevant points on the road etc, since that will hardly cost any more and you will need to know how your drainage trenches etc relate to the existing garden.

 

You want to get a copy of the full digital model so you can give it to all your other professionals, and to make sure there is no restriction on your use of your model.

 

Surely we are now also at the point where such models can be 3d-printed ecoomically? Has anyone done this?

 

Ferdinand

 

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

23 hours ago, ProDave said:

Try and pre empt the conditions by providing as much information in the planning application as you can. Anything not completely defined is an open door for a condition to approve those details later.

 

I would modify that slightly to be "as much information as you think you will *need* to provide to let the Council make their decision". It will say "built in accordance with drawings x, y and z, reports p, q, r and s, and conditions on the decision notice". It is up to you what is on drawings x, y and z and partly in reports p through s depending how you brief your advisers.

 

There are tradeoffs. If it is not in your PP your Council cannot hold you to it - eg someone here had trouble when the manufacturer changed the design of the front door from the one shown on the elevation to their new design, and the Council planner chose to pick at that particular nit. Or if something marginal (eg specification of expensive landscape feature) *is* in the PP you are likely to be able to be able to include it in the part of your expenditure for which VAT can be reclaimed.

 

They cannot be disturbed by things they do not know, and it is ambiguous what you have to tell them in many areas. The house I am living in at present squeaks up to the boundaries on both sides. Examining the plans I cannot see boundaries clearly indicated. On one side there is only an unlabelled line which appears to be the far side of next-door's drive. Was he misdirecting the Council?

 

But it is all a judgement call and situation dependent, and you are wearing the wig and gown.

 

Best of skill and best of luck .

 

Ferdinand 

[Ed_MK]

18 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

I would modify that slightly to be "as much information as you think you will *need* to provide to let the Council make their decision". It will sy "built in accordance with drawings x, y and z, reports p, q, r and s, and conditions on the decision notice. It is up to you what is on drawings x, y and z and parrtly in reports p through s depending how you brief your advisers.

 

There are tradeoffs. If it is not in your PP your Council cannot hold you to it - eg someone here had trouble when the manufacturer changed the design of the front door from the one shown on the elevation to their new design, and the Council planner chose to pick at that particular nit. Or if something marginal (eg specification of expensive landscape feature) *is* in the PP you are likely to be able to be able to include it in the part of your expenditure for which VAT can be reclaimed.

 

They cannot be disturbed by things they do not know, and it is ambiguous what you have to tell them in many areas. The house I am living in at present squeaks up to the boundaries on both sides. Examining the plans I cannot see boundaries clearly indicated. On one side there is only an unlabelled line which appears to be the far side of next-door's drive. Was he misdirecting the Council?

 

But it is all a judgement call and situation dependent, and you are wearing the wig and gown.

 

Best of skill and best of luck .

 

Ferdinand 

 

Thanks Ferdinand ...

 

It probably better that is how you an EARLY drawing of the house in situ. and a pic. Later ones are full of all-sorts of lines and some are now DXF files with layers ...as you can imagine.

 

This was one I measured did last year (at the outset) and there are some errata, apologies it is in Imperial ....that's me! ...but now for the sake of others sanity ...they are in M or mm.

 

The photo was taken a few months ago ...it's a mess I know! ....but it's now all been cleared, ivy at the bottom removed?
and hawthorns cut back ..it's deceptive and it is larger than it looks ..trust me!

 

For reference the photo was taken standing on the area that will be the new rear of sunroom and looking over the land the house/base will hopefully sit on. 

 

On the drawing ...

 

C (The House) is now reduced to 39' Deep by 40' Wide

This gives us almost 6 foot on each side to allow for a path and the like (service trench etc)

 

A (The Verge) is a VERY large verge which is between our land and the now adopted Rd (30mph)
It is ...believe it or not almost 24' wide and is mainly rough grass but DOES have a line of Hawthorn Trees (10-12ft tall)
all along its length closest to our fence ...this was the main concern with the planning environmental and eco officer, hence the need for a tree survey.

But we actually LOVE the trees and they provide natural cover ....but of course 3 or 4 will need to come out to facilitate the access ...but there must be 30-40
still along the fence ...they are not THAT mature either (It seems) and the trunks are around 5mm-7mm diameter ....but i have been advised that regardless
this makes them a tree

 

B (My In-laws Land) These (and all the neighbours) have decent/large plots ...and what you can see is effectively the FAR end of their 
BACK gardens ..i think the closest actual HOUSE is still 40m or more away.

 

D (Driveway / Access) We are still playing with this ..and may move it further to the house to allow for turning circles (as advised)
Not sure about the width though ? as I notice the Planning Application advice as for the ability for large (I am presuming construction) vehicles to enter and leave the plot.

 

PS
The house is a 1.5 storey "low eaves" variety and the only piece that actually "crosses over" to the rear of a neighbours property "eye line"  is the sun-room/conservatory ..seen at the top in the image ...

 

PPS

The planned route of services (I am hoping) will be around the "sunroom" area and directly to the in-laws at the top-right corner (as you look at the pic).
I am trying to minimise and work in and around the border with the Hawthorns  and try to avoid being labelled a nature-hating philistine ...Which I am not

 

PPPS (if that even exists)
Just so you know the actual WIDTH of the land the house sits on across that point is between 50' and 52'

 

 

 

 

[ProDave]

17 hours ago, Ed_MK said:

A (The Verge) is a VERY large verge which is between our land and the now adopted Rd (30mph)

it is ...believe it or not almost 24' wide and is mainly rough grass but DOES have a line of Hawthorn Trees (10-12ft tall)
all along its length closest to our fence ...this was the main concern with the planning environmental and eco officer, hence the need for a tree survey.

But we actually LOVE the trees and they provide natural cover ....but of course 3 or 4 will need to come out to facilitate the access ...but there must be 30-40 still along the fence ...they are not THAT mature either (It seems) and the trunks are around 5mm-7mm diameter ....but i have been advised that regardless this makes them a tree

 

Who owns that? More importantly, do you have a right of pedestrian and vehicular access over it?

 

Usually in the case of a grass road verge the first 3 metres is regarded as "the highway" so what about the rest beyond 3 metres?

[PeterW]

37 minutes ago, Ed_MK said:

A (The Verge) is a VERY large verge which is between our land and the now adopted Rd (30mph)
it is ...believe it or not almost 24' wide and is mainly rough grass but DOES have a line of Hawthorn Trees (10-12ft tall)
all along its length closest to our fence ...this was the main concern with the planning environmental and eco officer, hence the need for a tree survey.

But we actually LOVE the trees and they provide natural cover ....but of course 3 or 4 will need to come out to facilitate the access ...but thee must be 30-40
still along the fence ...they are not THAT mature either (It seems) and the trunks are around 5mm-7mm diameter ....but i have been advised that regardless
this makes them a tree

 

Hi and welcome....

 

I'd get some different advice on trees if I was you ..!! A standard BS 5837 tree survey would ignore that whole hedge unless you are in a conservation area or the hedge has a TPO on it. Anything under 150mm at 1.5m above ground level is ignored so you could rip that up without even getting permission (assuming it's on your land ..!)

 

Watch for council tree officers asking for surveys on land that is not yours - I've seen someone end up with a TPO on their land as someone tried to build adjacent and a very slap happy tree officer basically hit everything on the plan - including neighbours trees ..!

[Ferdinand]

I would strongly recommend deciding what you will be doing with trees, and *implementing* it before you apply for PP, but after you have dealt with potential show stoppers around drainage etc. If you have a TO who is getting hung up on technical definitions of hedgerow bushes the size of a finger, then you need to limit their scope pronto by removing some things.

 

AIUI these tiny trees only come into play when dealing with woodland TPOs as one particular judge made some peculiar decisions about tiny saplings being an essential part of the wood's future and therefore must all be controlled by the LPA. It is not clear whether the owners of consuming goats or sheep or beetles should be prosecuted. The rules may have changed, and I could be mistaken.

 

A hedge with 3 or 4 larger trees is probably going to be a better quality long term hedge than something much higher, both from ease of maintenance and growing things next to it points of view. You want some sun to get through it imo; this is not Mirkwood.

 

For hawthorn I would say get it traditionally laid, but telling the layers what height of hedge you want for the hedge itself, and leaving a few small trees for birds and the white/pink blossom. What colour do they flower? See if the hedge layer will adopt you as a oppo for a day or two; it is a fantastic skill to appreciate.

 

Ferdinand

Edited August 20, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

Who owns that? More importantly, do you have a right of pedestrian and vehicular access over it?

 

Usually in the case of a grass road verge the first 3 metres is regarded as "the highway" so what about the rest beyond 3 metres?

 

Check it carefully.

 

Our sale was delayed by a couple of months because the purchaser's solicitor refused to believe that we had a right to drive over our verge, despite having been there and doing it for 35+ years.

 

The problem lay with the lane having been realigned by a few m away from the house in 196x to accommodate the M1 build and the MoT taking certain powers and potentially retaining certain rights, and providing documentary proof 4x years later.

 

Eventually they accepted that we had the right by long use.

 

F

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Ferdinand

[ToughButterCup]

5 hours ago, Ed_MK said:

[...]
The only "sticker" is the waste water/sewage ....Around here most of the older properties (prior to 1990) are on private cesspits. For this reason I have had to look at practicalities of either a sealed unit or a water processor and soak away ..WE have also though long and hard about actually connecting the sewage in the same way as other services, and in turn we could effectively connect our in-laws house "on the way" and both share the benefit ...

[...]

 

In that case, you need to read this document, the General Binding Rules, and follow them to the letter.

[Jeremy Harris]

Welcome, sounds an interesting project.

 

We looked at Potton, but, to be blunt, we were put off by the relatively high cost and the relatively poor energy performance.  We did try to persuade them to look at ways to improve the performance, but they didn't really seem interested in providing anything better than a "just meets building regs" standard.  Having said that, I believe they have now built at least one passive house, so may be they are more receptive to the idea of making decent performance houses.

[Ed_MK]

17 hours ago, ProDave said:

Who owns that? More importantly, do you have a right of pedestrian and vehicular access over it?

 

Usually in the case of a grass road verge the first 3 metres is regarded as "the highway" so what about the rest beyond 3 metres?

Hi.

 

Both the verge and the trees growing on it are the property of MK council I am told. They recently adopted the road. From the preplanning advice letter they don't have issues with access over it..and I have been told to submit that on my plans and inform the council roads department before .. i.e. soon of my intention.

[Ed_MK]

17 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

Hi and welcome....

 

I'd get some different advice on trees if I was you ..!! A standard BS 5837 tree survey would ignore that whole hedge unless you are in a conservation area or the hedge has a TPO on it. Anything under 150mm at 1.5m above ground level is ignored so you could rip that up without even getting permission (assuming it's on your land ..!)

 

Watch for council tree officers asking for surveys on land that is not yours - I've seen someone end up with a TPO on their land as someone tried to build adjacent and a very slap happy tree officer basically hit everything on the plan - including neighbours trees ..!

Hi Peter.

 

The trees are actually on the council's land. They are growing on the fence line to me..currently over hanging and encroaching. We were asked to do a tree protection survey as the only initial objection was to the removal of 3 of them and how we would protect the existing treeline whilst building. ..it probably doesn't help that we are RIGHT next to a conservation area either.

 

At present they also require a desktop soil study...I am still working out the most economical way of doing this as I do think it's a little over they top. Due to the land history. .sigh

 

I know from speaking to neighbours that they are HOT around here...so I suppose grin, pay out, and sit tight? 

[PeterW]

33 minutes ago, Ed_MK said:

we were asked to do a tree protection survey as the only initial objection was to the removal of 3 of them and how we would protect the existing treeline whilst building

 

Ok so that's very different to a tree survey ..!!

 

all you need is the standard detail from BS5837 about protection of root zones and that you will use a fixed fence etc and you will be fine. It's all pretty standard stuff ...!

[Jeremy Harris]

Well worth making sure that the right of access over the verge is written into some form of legal agreement, I think. 

 

A few years ago there was a case near us, where a company discovered that the grass verges along a lane were not owned by anyone any more (the original land owner had died, and somehow the title had been lost).  There were around 20 houses along this lane, IIRC, that all had driveways over a few feet of this verge.  The company that had bought the verge issued them all with a demand, rescinding any assumed right to pass over the bit of grass verge the company now owned, and only granted an access right when each owner paid a fee equivalent to one third of the assessed value of their house.  In most cases the fee was well in excess of £150k, I believe.

 

The company involved was a specialist firm that goes around the country looking to buy land that is used for access, and where there is no legal agreement in place for that access.  They then buy the land up for a price that the landowner cannot refuse and hold the people who use it for access to ransom.  Often the land they buy belongs to, or used to belong to, local councils.  Local authorities are strapped for cash, and if someone comes along and offers them money for some land they have no use for the chances are they will just sell it.

[Ferdinand]

10 hours ago, Ed_MK said:

Hi.

both the verge and the trees growing on it are the property of Mk council I am told. they recently adopted the road. .from the preplanning advice letter they don't have issues with a access over it..and I have been told to submit that on my plans and inform the council roads depaetment before ..I. e. soon of my intention.

 

In MK you could remove 4762 trees and no one could tell the difference... 

 

@JSHarris

 

Hope I am not nitpicking, but how did they buy land which wasn't owned by anyone? Who was the counterparty?

 

Was the enforcement just a scam?

Edited August 21, 2017 by Ferdinand

[ProDave]

45 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

Well worth making sure that the right of access over the verge is written into some form of legal agreement, I think. 

 

A few years ago there was a case near us, where a company discovered that the grass verges along a lane were not owned by anyone any more (the original land owner had died, and somehow the title had been lost).  There were around 20 houses along this lane, IIRC, that all had driveways over a few feet of this verge.  The company that had bought the verge issued them all with a demand, rescinding any assumed right to pass over the bit of grass verge the company now owned, and only granted an access right when each owner paid a fee equivalent to one third of the assessed value of their house.  In most cases the fee was well in excess of £150k, I believe.

 

The company involved was a specialist firm that goes around the country looking to buy land that is used for access, and where there is no legal agreement in place for that access.  They then buy the land up for a price that the landowner cannot refuse and hold the people who use it for access to ransom.  Often the land they buy belongs to, or used to belong to, local councils.  Local authorities are strapped for cash, and if someone comes along and offers them money for some land they have no use for the chances are they will just sell it.

I understand what they are doing, but if they have been using it for access for more than 10 years, would Adverse Possession not apply?

[Jeremy Harris]

6 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Hope I am not nitpicking, but how did they buy land which wasn't owned by anyone? Who was the counterparty?

 

I'm not sure.  From what was reported on the news here, the company spent some time tracing the successors in title to the land, I think.  The situation was that the landowner (a farmer, I think) had sold the building plots back in the 1950's or 60's.  At the time of the sale, the same farmer owned the lane that provided access to these houses.  At some point the lane was adopted, and the local authority then owned the lane, but not all of the wide verges on either side.  The farmer died and the land he owned was presumably sold, but not the strips of grass verge, as there was an assumption that these belonged to the local authority, I assume.

 

The company discovered this discrepancy, and somehow managed to buy the remaining strips of grass verge without either the residents or the local authority being aware.  The first anyone knew of the new owners of the verges was when the company made the demand for payment in return for access rights.