Ride On Mower Repair

[Onoff]

59 minutes ago, Temp said:

Just for info.. I've seen someone on eBay making replacement decks. You have to transfer over bearings, blades etc

 

Thanks. Seen that seller before. You know me, DIY or die!

 

Very nearly happened yesterday with a Dewalt 115mm 1mm slitting disc that went BANG when I touched a high tensile bolt with it. Gloves and goggles on but still scary and had me thinking "full face shield".

 

I NEVER buy Dewalt discs but work owed me a tin to replace my own & they were on special for a tin of 10 at TS so I thought I'd give them a try. Utter POS. I went back to my favourites, Rhodius Alphas. 

 

Back to the mower.....deck back on but I'm wondering if I've a gearbox problem. Changes up/down OK through the 5 gears but doesn't seem to want to go very fast. Even in 1st it barely makes our slightly inclined lawn. Low on petrol so I'll get some more and have another go.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Onoff

[Temp]

3 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

Thanks. Seen that seller before. You know me, DIY or die!

 

Likewise. I keep looking at the hole in my deck trying to decide if I should get it repaired, replaced or buy welding kit and figure out how to patch it myself.

[Onoff]

6 minutes ago, Temp said:

 

Likewise. I keep looking at the hole in my deck trying to decide if I should get it repaired, replaced or buy welding kit and figure out how to patch it myself.

 

Is it exactly the same deck as mine?

[Temp]

No mines a Toro.

[Temp]

Before you refill yours with new fuel check for bugs in the tank. One caused me no end of grief with poor running. They crawl into the removable spout of my jerry can and then get flushed into the tank when I fill up. 

[Onoff]

37 minutes ago, Temp said:

Before you refill yours with new fuel check for bugs in the tank. One caused me no end of grief with poor running. They crawl into the removable spout of my jerry can and then get flushed into the tank when I fill up. 

 

There was only about 1/2" of fuel in the tank. I took the air filter off and gave it a squirt of Damp Start. Slung a cap of lead replacement additive / octane booster in the tank too for good measure. Engine is running fine. I might jack up the rear end and see if the wheels rotate progressively faster as I go up through the gears. Pretty sure they did back when I last ran it...August last year I think.

[JFDIY]

12 hours ago, Temp said:

 

Likewise. I keep looking at the hole in my deck trying to decide if I should get it repaired, replaced or buy welding kit and figure out how to patch it myself.

 

Think 1960's/1970’s car repairs, Ali plate and pop rivets?

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, JFDIY said:

 

Think 1960's/1970’s car repairs, Ali plate and pop rivets?

 

Lift the carpets and see the piece of GTX can under there...

[Onoff]

Hmm...deck back on but.....

 

Picture below shows the repaired deck pre refitting. I've added on in pink the drive pulley on the bottom of the engine. The belt runs anti clockwise. The original pullies that turn the blades are shown at 1 & 2. They are stiffer to turn than I'd like. If, with the deck on I engage the cutter the belt jumps and slaps at 1. I think what is happening is that the drive pulley feeds the belt onto 1 which turns relatively freely. When it gets to 2, because that is stiff to turn the belt "backs up". New bearings ordered!

 

 

 

[Onoff]

Seems I had in wrong in my thought process above! I had it backwards.
 

Belts pull only so all of the slack will be at 1 (which is where a tensioning pulley would be if fitted to take up any slack in the belt).
 

I had to ensure the brake pads weren't engaging with the pullies when the cutter was engaged. They're not

If the belt is flapping there badly then I either have a belt that is too long or the engagement needs some adjusting. Belt WAS the right one originally...

 

Tried starting it just now on the pull cord, to video the belt slap it but no dice. Was starting fine yesterday!

Anyway, ref the deck/belt. After refitting the deck the belt was smoking like Hell on trying engaging the cutter, blade pullies weren't turning and the belt was "slapping " terribly at 1, marked pink, above.

We adjusted at the back here:

 

 

And it's in these holes at the front, (before it was 1 hole back):

 

 

After adjusting as above the belt smoking stopped pretty much and the cutting pullies seemed to be trying to turn.

Deck fully raised, belt is level:

 

 

Deck fully down, belt looks at too steep an angle to me:

 

 

 

The belt is wearing here:

 

 

Grateful for any pointers.

Cheers

[PeterW]

9 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Grateful for any pointers.

let some air out of the tyres to lower it down... 

[ProDave]

It's not until you start looking at how these things work that you realise what carp, useless "engineering" is behind them.  At the price you pay for them, I think I would have hoped for something engineered a little better than what you have there I am afraid.

[Onoff]

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

It's not until you start looking at how these things work that you realise what carp, useless "engineering" is behind them.  At the price you pay for them, I think I would have hoped for something engineered a little better than what you have there I am afraid.

 

No complaints here it was FOC!

[Sandybay]

Hi,

Had an old Westwood ride on myself a few years ago, the deck was on adjustable bars at the front like the one you have, and had a steel wires across the top of the deck at the back, over time the wires stretched with the weight of the deck, and I changed the bolt position on the front two bars to raise it a little. 

[Onoff]

Well...the repaired mower deck is good but the mower gearbox isn't well. Factory filled apparently with (mega expensive) Bentonite lubricant and then the casing sealed with "Permatex 599 Ultra Gray". It changes up/down OK but it feels like something is slipping in the gearbox, it's SO slow. Belt is not slipping.

Went off to a neighbours yesterday to rescue the seemingly good gearbox from an abandoned mower that hit a stump and has the front end all bent up. (Social distancing on a 5 acre plot is not an issue btw ?). There were in fact two similar mowers there. Both in a very sorry state. I had permission to turn both over on their bonnets.

The salvaged Peerless (American made) "crash" gearbox c/w wheels/tyres removed and back home sitting atop my mower after a cursory jet wash and attempt to pump the tyres up. The nuts and bolts that attach the gearbox have been put in an open topped plastic bag and lowered into the citric acid barrel for it to work it's magic. Of the two salvaged wheels one pumped up OK to 10psi the other is all cracked and leaking like a sieve.

 

 

Typically as is the case with these mowers the n/s rear wheel was seized solid on the shaft of this salvaged gearbox/axle. (People will bin them just for this). Lucky tbh it's not both wheels stuck as was the case with my mower under the tarp. I managed way back to get the o/s wheel off as it's that you have to remove to access the brake caliper. I still have to get the n/s off of mine, not done as its a mission but I'll have to now. Sods Law the stuck wheel on the salvage axle had the perished tyre. The stuck wheel on my mower has the good tyre!

So that was one problem to sort. Sat it upright with copious amounts 3 in 1 & penetrating oil on the end of the shaft hoping it'd seep down. Left it a couple of hours then the stuck wheel came off after some persuasion involving a pair of trestles, two pieces of 4x2, a drift and a hammer. Actually easier than with the gear box in situ. Shafts all emery clothed and lubed. Bosses in the citric acid bath.

 

 

Next problem:

 

The gear change rod attaches to this lug atop the gearbox (yellow gearbox filler bung just behind):

 

That won't move for me to check the gear changes until I can un-seize the brake which is solid.:

 

 

It was this that stumped me for a while on mine until a mate in the States kindly sourced me a new caliper from over there. That's on, working a treat and all lubed up on my mower with the now suspect gearbox. Needs to likely come off and go on this salvaged one. The problem is the aluminium caliper and two fixing bolts etc become "one" through the corrosion. Last time I sheared the heads of both bolts I'm pointing to. Again I've lubed it up with penetrating oil and I'll come back to it.

 

Just waiting for the brake to free up! Might end up barrowing it to another neighbour and trying his oxy torch on it if MAPP gas doesnt help.

 

Tried getting the rusted  pulley off the gearbox but the circlip just disintegrated and the pulley wouldn't budge. More penetrating oil, more waiting, can't find my really big gear puller either!

Edited May 11, 2020 by Onoff

[Onoff]

Well this mower is fighting me all the way!

Seems that although the gearboxes are the same basic casting, my original one has tapped fixing holes into the ali gearbox. On the donor, the "new", gearbox these are pilot drilled and not tapped as the gearbox attaches a different way.

And to boot they're UNC. 

This is mine. One bolt came out OK. The remaining one feels like it's going to shear.

 

This is the donor, new box, holes need tapping:

 

 

So this morning, looking at re tapping the bolts into the gearbox.

The removed bolt measures 5/16" outside diameter. Teeth per inch is 18. So from my trusty Zeus book that makes it 5/16" BSW or 5/16-18 UNC. This Peerless gearbox being American I'd go for it being UNC.

(BSW have 55deg and UNC 60deg thread angles. In the rough and ready circles it's considered acceptable to interchange bolts as all but the 1/2" size interchange from memory. 1/2" BSW is 12tpi, 1/2" UNC is 13tpi. There's other differences in the thread tips are pointed on one and rounded on the other).

I only have taps for UNC but likely to be one bolt down anyway if (when) this next one shears.

The holes in the gearbox measures up 9/32" as far as I can tell. So 7.32mm in new money.

Recommended tapping hole sizes are 6.4/6.5mm for BSW and 6.5/6.6mm for UNC. I'm guessing these holes have grown a bit through corrosion.

I'm tempted to drill out the 7.32mm holes to 8.2mm and re tap at M10 metric coarse. Not sure that tapping M8 will be "grippy" enough in there with what's left after the corrosion that's done it's thing. M8 requires a 6.8mm tapping hole and I'm at 7.32mm.

Thinking M10 will be a bit "chunkier".

Or I get some UNC bolts...

 

Or I use "whatever" and thread lock...

 

I'd rather avoid helicoils.

Any thoughts to push me one way or the other? ?

Edited May 17, 2020 by Onoff

[Stones]

So, cutting my grass the other day, found the pictured part lying on the newly cut grass. No change to the operation of my ride on mower, and can't work out where it has come from or its purpose, only that its been held at one end by a circlip.  From the marks on it, looks like belt wear? Any ideas?

 

 

 

 

 

[Pocster]

On 20/08/2017 at 16:54, Onoff said:

 

Ta. Old battery though showing 12V after a charge has no real life so new battery time I think. Pic of the beast in question:

 

 

Been out playing with the mechanics of it today. Only started on it yesterday as the wife had been using it and said it was hard to get in gear. Took the blades off and sharpened them and tack welded one of the little blade ends back on that was loose.

 

For some reason the belt wants to jump off the rear pulley atop the gearbox all the time. Was just happening in reverse but now more often when trying to pull away in gear. I fitted an M12 bolt to try and stop it but it still does it. Amazed how as the shank is pretty much touching the pulley without impeding it. I'm pointing here to nyloc nut on the bolt I added:

 

 

And from the underside. You can see where the belt is sitting underneath having come off. Quite how it jumps off the pulley with the bolt there amazes me as I say. Seems more likely to happen if you let your foot off the clutch/brake quickly. Do it very slowly and it happens far less.

 

 

To get the belt back on I have to loosen that bolt every time now.

 

Garden ornament at the mo!

 

EDIT: That's the badger's handiwork in the background on the lawn. Every year we wake up to random patches that have bee excavated. Heard they're searching for the larvae of certain insects; leatherjackets, cockchafers etc. Not sure what other than they make a mess!

If you have a mower like that it must be a large plot . Large enough to build a house on !!

[Onoff]

23 minutes ago, pocster said:

If you have a mower like that it must be a large plot . Large enough to build a house on !!

 

1/2 acre. Existing house slap bang in the middle.

[Pocster]

5 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

1/2 acre. Existing house slap bang in the middle.

Plenty of space for an underground one then ! . What’s wrong with you ?! An easy project . 100% I could get you planning ( my fee first please ) 

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

Plenty of space for an underground one then ! . What’s wrong with you ?! An easy project . 100% I could get you planning ( my fee first please ) 

Most of us would be pushing up the daises before he had the foundations finished.

[Onoff]

Old gearbox off but I sheared 3 out of the 4 bolts holding it on. I'll drill out and retap.

 

The same bolt positions on the new gearbox drilled a bit bigger and tapped M10.

 

I had to swap the gear change plates over as different lengths.

 

Next I need to swap the pullies over as mine, the more orange, less rusty one has an extra hole for the pto to drive the grass box flails. Remaining wheel still refusing to budge!

 

 

 

[Onoff]

Right then, who knows anything about Bentonite clay based grease?

It is what was apparently specified originally in these Peerless transmissions. You'd like to think the designers knew their stuff but they might have just spec'd as it was their goto lube!

The question is can it be replaced by something else? Thinking soap based open gear grease.

 

Maybe moly like that used for packing CV joints?

I've also read "80-90 gear oil with a Lucas additive".

The genuine 788067C stuff seems hugely overpriced, about £40 to do the box.

It just needs to "cling" to the teeth in there and be waterproof surely?

 

If I do use something else I'm pretty sure I need to get rid of all the old as clay and soap greases don't mix!

[dpmiller]

the sticky Lucas additive would certainly take the pressure. Are they all straight-cut gears and are there and friction clutches inside?

[Onoff]

4 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

the sticky Lucas additive would certainly take the pressure. Are they all straight-cut gears and are there and friction clutches inside?

 

No ideas. The back story on the donor is that it was in perfect running order until the owner pranged it bending the front up. These Peerless gearboxes often go on I'm reading until the mower deck rusts out IF driven carefully.  The changing gear whilst moving seems to be what kills them apparently. The donor gearbox feels sweet to change up / down with the aid of a large adjustable on the gear linkage.

 

Tempted to put the donor box on as is then strip my one and look inside with a view to repairing it. 

 

Off to try and swap the pullies over in a minute.