What size digger to get a treatment plant off a deliver lorry?

[crispy_wafer]

As title, thinking how to minimise hire costs and delivery charges, as I'll need the digger to create the hole in the ground anyway, so if I wanted to self offload a Rewatec ASP 6 (about 230kg)  from the back of a lorry would a 3t be big enough or do I need to go larger?

[Conor]

Easily. Assuming you have forks / lifting slings etc.

[ProDave]

My 3t digger would barely lift my treatment plant a foot off the ground, it could not have lifted one from above off a truck.

 

That is why when I bought my treatment plant, I ordered it from a builders merchant,  Not only did they give a better price than anyone else, it meant it arrived on their delivery truck with it's own hiab to lift it off.

[crispy_wafer]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

That is why when I bought my treatment plant, I ordered it from a builders merchant,  Not only did they give a better price than anyone else, it meant it arrived on their delivery truck with it's own hiab to lift it off.

 

Very fair comment,

[Thorfun]

got my Graf one2clean off the delivery lorry with my 2.7T digger. it's not a conical shaped tank though so maybe that's the difference with @ProDave's?

[dpmiller]

230kg sounds like an awful lot, is this a Conder with a steel frame underneath? I don't think our Solido would've been over 100kg. We used out 2.7t machine to install it, but there's no way it would've had the reach to lift it off a wagon.

Edited June 6, 2023 by dpmiller

[crispy_wafer]

maybe it's not such a great idea, the height of the unit + starting height of the trailer might just be too much, too much of a gamble i think.

[Jenki]

I installed a 12p Tricel Nova, the instructions were very specific, "the unit must be lifted of the lorry via 2 shackles connected to the eyebolts and sling of not less the x M long...

 

So I bought shackles and slings ready for the big day.

Unfortunately the unit arrived on a curtain sider on pallets so lifted it off with forks on the backhoe.

All the preparation in the world only counts when you have full control of the process.

[Dave Jones]

5 ton machine lift it easy.

 

3 ton while being able to lift 250g no issue hasn't the reach to get it off the lorry.

[dnb]

Agreed. 5 ton is the one to have. I did mine with a 3 ton digger and there were one or two moments in the job where things felt a bit too close to the limit.

[Houbara]

As others have said, a 5t would be best for the job.

 

I got the Solido Smart 2-8 which came on a low trailer behind a van. Since the unit is round the driver just rolled it off the side, but doubt you have this option. I had a 3t for the digging as was in a tight space which would have made using a 5t tricky. The 3t just managed to dig the hole (2m x 3m and 2m deep), but was pretty close to the limit for depth. Also, as mentioned, the arm wasn't long enough to lift the unit much off the ground, so woudn't have been much use for offloading.

[ProDave]

MY very old 3t digger was almost at full reach down digging the hole for the treatment plant.

 

 

And when lifting the unit, it would not lift it very far off the ground.

 

[saveasteading]

Marsh Industries are delivered direct from the factory, on a trailer and the driver can manhandle it off, tho welcomes help.

4 of us then trundled it out of the way.

 

Into the hole is by digger of course usss you ramp it down.

[crispy_wafer]

Update: changed my mind on the tank, getting the Solido, the fact that it runs periodically and uses less energy resulting in longer term savings won the day...  Travis Perkins beat the online suppliers and threw in delivery and offload as part of it.  Happy with that as I've back and forth on this for about a year...

[ToughButterCup]

On 06/06/2023 at 10:25, crispy_wafer said:

... (about 230kg)  from the back of a lorry would a 3t be big enough or do I need to go larger?

 

No.

One key issue that many overlook is the weight lifting capacity  in relation to reach . 

 

18 minutes ago, crispy_wafer said:

.... and threw in delivery and offload as part of it.  ....

 

Excellent. Step one achieved.

Next : postitioning it accurately in relation to the hole. You'll have to think about where the digger will be stationed in relation to the hole -  in other words , think about reach.

 

My instinct is to suggest a 6 tonner for a day will do it (£300ish )

[crispy_wafer]

22 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

My instinct is to suggest a 6 tonner for a day will do it (£300ish )

 

I think you are right.  But 5/6t will only allow me to dig from one side of the hole, too high, and wide to fit through the gate and past the stables. whereas a 3t I can manoeuvre to get access from the other side too.

 

Will be going under the area where the greenhouses are in this pic, using access near the stables.

 

 

Digging primarily will be done from about where my dumper is parked.

[ToughButterCup]

Hmmm... weighing the job up ....

 

If I understand you correctly, you'll have restricted movement for your digger: that shouldn't be too much of a challenge, especially not for a 6 tonner - its reach will be sufficient.  If not : consider popping the gate and fence out and replace behind you? 

 

Slinging the digester from the ground to (say) a meter above ground for transit might be an issue (?) 

 

Do a quick Risk Assessment. Nothing 'heavy', but walk it through in your mind and prepare accordingly.

 

• Ground conditions? Too wet? Hmmm. Too crumbly? Planking and bracing.
• Job achievable in one day ? If not who's gonna fall in, when, and how do they get out?  
• 2 shackles - one for the digger arm, one for the sling on the lifting points of the digester ( proper - expensive- shackles correct rating)
• A couple of 5 tonne (five dashed black lines on the fabric) slings - different lengths if you can
• Check there are lifting eyes on the digger arm (my digger had strict instructions NOT to use the arm as a crane :>(   ) or the back of the bucket
• A steadying rope, and a banksman while moving  (Dont move it on your own )
• Space for ground anchors in the hole (otherwise the tank might pop out of the ground when the water table rises)
• Consider using concrete to anchor the ground anchors in the hole
• How are you going to make absolutely sure the tank is perfectly level ..... perfectly level
• Inlet invert - outlet Invert and subsequent run to drainage: double double check. ( I lost so much sleep over getting this right )
• Windy day? Wait.
• Planks ready in the hole to microadjust the tank - I used scaffolding jacks and old scaff planks - well oiled jack - smoothe running.
• Ladder to get in and out of the hole safely

All good fun. Love to see photos when the time comes. Bestaluck !

[saveasteading]

17 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

tank is perfectly level ..... perfectly level

 

We hired a jcb with operator for the day that was well worthwhile as he overcame some issues by experience and, of course, knowing his machine.

 

He said he had never, ever, seen anyone check the level of the tank and that it was also correct at inlet and outlet....and that after doing it maybe 40 times before. Fortunately he didn't discourage us getting it right.

 

I highly recommend a quick and easy means of checking the level under  pressure: in a deep hole with people shouting that they haven't got time.

 

Think it through or come back for suggestions.

 

 

[dpmiller]

@crispy_wafer what size Solido is it? I've just checked our documentation and the 6-8PE is 150kg, needing a 180cm dig, it's got a lifting eye on top and no concrete required...

 

best practice is to steadily fill with water as you backfill, to equalise the loading although the moulded tank can take full load either way unsupported

[ToughButterCup]

And @saveasteading, of those who never checked, how many were self builders? 

 

This job of ours teaches caution at so many levels, and at the same time offers so many examples of the opposite 

[crispy_wafer]

1 hour ago, dpmiller said:

@crispy_wafer what size Solido is it? I've just checked our documentation and the 6-8PE is 150kg, needing a 180cm dig, it's got a lifting eye on top and no concrete required...

 

best practice is to steadily fill with water as you backfill, to equalise the loading although the moulded tank can take full load either way unsupported

 

Its the 8PE pumped version, watercourse is about 50 paces away. 

 

I'll be looking to concrete as clay sublayer @ about 1m causes slow drainage, invert is approx 650mm.  The installation guides don't seem quite clear on whether I could pour mass concrete over the top or not to create a tomb like structure.  I may want to drive over its location occasionally with my small tractor...  Thinking I'll mix the concrete for it to sit on, then have either a readymix or volumetric delivery to fill the rest of the hole.  Best laid plans and all that,

 

 

 

 

[crispy_wafer]

Just now, ToughButterCup said:

And @saveasteading, of those who never checked, how many were self builders? 

 

This job of ours teaches caution at so many levels, and at the same time offers so many examples of the opposite 

Self builders, we cant afford to so blasé.  Mistakes cost money.

[saveasteading]

47 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 of those who never checked, how many were self builders? 

Mostly his current or previous employer, groundworking companies.

[ToughButterCup]

Thats an interesting observation of yours. 

Can we imagine NOT checking: we've all of us been through - or are going through-  the School Of Hard Knocks ?

[saveasteading]

I know professionally and also recently on the self build that most groundworkers don't much care for levels. Even the bigger contractors delegate so much to small gangs who just dig.

 

What's more, drainage design consultants concentrate on getting the water away, but not necessarily the most economical way ( pipe sizes and slopes,  and trench depths.)

 

I worked on huge vonrractong projects and now see how we made it easy for the workers using profiles and travellers. So they didn't have to look at drawings or use levels, but got it right.

Nowadays I suggest the methods and groundworkers just want either a single level for a laser , or work "off the bubble

 There must be an awful lot of wrongly installed drains.

...working until they don't.