BartW Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 Hi, Is there an economical way to introduce AC dimmers to Loxone cabinet? I counted and a total of 29no is required 😳 That is 7no dimmer extensions. White Wing dimmer would have done, but that does low voltage only, no? Any ideas? Many thanks! Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 Do you really need to dim all those lights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, BartW said: White Wing dimmer would have done, but that does low voltage only, no? They do mains dimmers too. Buy 2x of these (16 chan) http://www.whitewing.co.uk/acdim.html Edited June 4, 2023 by joth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted June 4, 2023 Author Share Posted June 4, 2023 15 hours ago, Thorfun said: Do you really need to dim all those lights? Yes, the whole point of automation for us is to be able to create scenes and moods. 15 hours ago, joth said: They do mains dimmers too. Buy 2x of these (16 chan) http://www.whitewing.co.uk/acdim.html that and a DMX gate from Loxone right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob99 Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 12 hours ago, BartW said: that and a DMX gate from Loxone Right? Yep, that'll do the job nicely. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted June 4, 2023 Author Share Posted June 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, Rob99 said: Yep, that'll do the job nicely. 👍 Just checked, and all bar a few of the mains dimming lights have actually got a mini driver each, so with a bit of luck I should be able to remove those and enjoy low volt dimming with rgbw dimmers from Loxone. £70 odd quid or so? And they would do 4 individual channels each, so completely solution for around £500 + vat and still within a fully native system. gone to tinker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob99 Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 Sounds good. I had a client who did exactly that with 5 RGBW dimmers in the cabinet for 17 white 24v lighting circuits. I also had a fancy LED pendant light in my dining room which when I checked had a 24v transformer so I stripped that out and connected it up to a spare RGBW channel, so it's always worth checking inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 2 hours ago, BartW said: Yes, the whole point of automation for us is to be able to create scenes and moods. Yes, but... The same effects can be created with different compilations of lights, rather than the same lights at different intensity levels. I've only used dimmers where I have a single group of lights in a room, ie. Bedrooms. Other rooms that have, say, main ceiling lights, some wall lights, LED strip and a 5A lamp or two can be combined in numerous different scenes to provide different lighting levels. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 3 hours ago, IanR said: Yes, but... The same effects can be created with different compilations of lights, rather than the same lights at different intensity levels. I've only used dimmers where I have a single group of lights in a room, ie. Bedrooms. Other rooms that have, say, main ceiling lights, some wall lights, LED strip and a 5A lamp or two can be combined in numerous different scenes to provide different lighting levels. +1 and is what I was getting at when I said do all the lights need dimming! the other great thing about centralised lighting automation is you don't have to have everything dimming on day 1! live with the lighting for a bit and if you feel that something is missing or needs dimming then you can just add that circuit to the dimmer module and suddenly you have dimming where you didn't before. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 5 hours ago, BartW said: Just checked, and all bar a few of the mains dimming lights have actually got a mini driver each, so with a bit of luck I should be able to remove those and enjoy low volt dimming with rgbw dimmers from Loxone. £70 odd quid or so? And they would do 4 individual channels each, so completely solution for around £500 + vat and still within a fully native system. gone to tinker! There's a few potential gotchas to this approach. - many of those mini drivers are constant current, not constant voltage, and Loxone don't make any native CC drivers - wiring multiple fittings on CC drivers means series wiring and higher voltage driver which is not hard but can trip up the design - using a different driver typically invalidates warranty on the light fitting (not that they can prove it but still) - running low voltage working makes the house electrics non standard and potentially much harder to maintain for someone else in future as they need to match fittings to drivers on a given circuit If you're happy with these limitations, then the overall approach can work very well and much more efficient and higher quality dimming than mains phase cut dimming, which really is a kludge technically speaking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 Use DALI and you have limitless options for zone creation and dimming (after the fact) without wiring specific zones. Also avoids banks of AC dimmers in your cabinet and reduces the amount of home-run wiring. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, BartW said: and all bar a few of the mains dimming lights have actually got a mini driver each, so with a bit of luck I should be able to remove those and enjoy low volt dimming with rgbw dimmers from Loxone. £70 odd quid or so? And they would do 4 individual channels each, so completely solution for around £500 + vat and still within a fully native system. Before you do that, there are a few important points: - You need to consider voltage drop if you are wiring these back to your panel. Especially if using a single run for multiple fittings, this could become significant and an issue. - If you sum the watts of all the fittings you want to use per channel, what do you get? Is it less than 50A which is the max Loxone RGBW extension supports per channel? - But, more importantly, the drivers that come with downlights are typically constant current. The Loxone RGBW extension is constant voltage and uses PWM. You can't AFAIK, simply switch LEDs designed to run with constant current drivers to use constant voltage drivers. You don't want to kill your 29 fittings. Edited June 4, 2023 by Dan F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted June 4, 2023 Author Share Posted June 4, 2023 Hi, yes, as a quick update I went to check after I sent my last comment and they are constant current. calling West Wing tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 Just think of the time, money, and effort one could save if scene setting wasn't "life or death"..... Once you live with the (then seemingly rational) constraints of the choices you made during the design and construction phases, you may regret this pursuit and it's price tag. All I hear from adopters of HA is how it has a short lifespan, support and equipment longevity issues (becoming obsolete), and how much it costs when shit breaks, and then breaks again. And again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 23 hours ago, BartW said: economical way to introduce AC dimmers to Loxone cabinet? I counted and a total of 29no is required Don't bother installing and get on with life, you will use for the first month and be really happy, then no one will ever use again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 We spend 2,900 hours asleep each year, that leaves 5,860 hours awake. More than half of those no artificial lighting will be needed, so les than 3000 hours to control the lighting. Now I doubt that every room will have lighting on all the time, let us say that 3 rooms out of 8 do, that is then 1,100 hours, 3 hours a day to get into the mood. I find that seasonal, daily, hourly variation of natural daylight is enough for me. Yesterday, I got up an it was light, went to bed and it was light, 6 months time, it will be dark. As @JohnMo wisely says, get on with life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, JohnMo said: Don't bother installing and get on with life, you will use for the first month and be really happy, then no one will ever use again. Yep, I have a Dali/Lutron building at work, nothing but show, for Architects and Lighting consultants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 It has it's uses if the house is enormous, and you need a packed lunch to travel between switches, but after that I'd rather spend the huge amount of money required on a holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 38 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: rather spend the huge amount of money required on a holiday Just spend it in alcohol, the blind in 'blind drunk' takes on a better meaning then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted June 5, 2023 Author Share Posted June 5, 2023 We have always had dimmers in houses we lived and would not want not to have them going forward. Sonetimes all lights one circuit can give is not what we want / need. plus, it is too late to skip HA: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 Zigbee dimmer 8 quid from land of the rising sun . Just saying …. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted June 5, 2023 Author Share Posted June 5, 2023 Just now, pocster said: Zigbee dimmer 8 quid from land of the rising sun . Just saying …. Would it work with Loxone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 Just now, BartW said: Would it work with Loxone? No idea . With any HA there probably is a loxone plug in . Personally I go for cheap replaceable stuff . What’s good today will be shite / obsolete / unworkable tomorrow. Personal opinion of course . X10 ? , Sonos ? , Logitech squeezebox ? , msx 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 20 minutes ago, pocster said: Zigbee dimmer 8 quid from land of the rising sun . Just saying …. They will be snuffing your lights out. Worse than that, they will know when your mummy sends you to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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