House to integral garage door - Security?

[AliG]

Hi,

 

Many of us have integral garages. My architect just assumed that we would use a fire rated internal door between the house and the garage.

 

The door has to achieve three things though - fire resistance, security and insulation.

 

Insulation - The garage and garage door are insulated and in my current house that tends to keep the garage temperature above 10C even when 0C outside. Thus the temperature differential between the two sides of the door will be low so heat loss will be less than on an external door.

 

Fire resistance - Has to be 30minutes as per regs.

 

Security - I have commented on many threads re security. In this area the main reason for house breaking is to try and steal your car. The garage has no side doors. I have sectional insulated steel doors being installed. These will use Sommer motors with a magnetic lock which can withstand 300kg of pressure. I am also having shot bolts put into the frames that I can lock if we are on holiday. But what about the door between the house and the garage. I believe that physical security is best. If you can't get into the garage you can't steel my cars, simple. I priced up Hormann steel integral garage doors the H3D and WAT40. They came in at £900 and £2300 which was a shocker. I could get a steel security door for around £300 as linked below. Or am I overthinking it. The door opens inwards into the house. If I use a 44mm solid core wooden fire door, other than maybe protecting the hinges and making sure the lock is secure is this enough as the door will be held against the frame on the garage side so hard to kick nor break through? 

 

Any thoughts?

 

http://www.ajsteeldoors.co.uk/en/products/steel-security-doors/high-security-doors.html#/hinge_side_viewed_from_outside-lh/opening_viewed_from_outside-outwards/side_panel_1-please_select/fixing-brick_block_concrete/side_panel_2-please_select/overhead_panel-please_select/rain_drip-yes/security_trim_kit-yes/colour-ral_9003_signal_white_available_from_stock/letterbox-please_select/extra_keys-0/security_upgrade-level_2_stainless_steel_handles_security_cylinder/size_mm-895x2020

[Jeremy Harris]

We had an break in years ago, in a house with an integral garage and a door leading from the utility room to the garage.  The thieves got in through the back door whilst we were out and were trying to get into the garage when they were disturbed by a neighbour and ran off.  The things I learned were that a standard back door fitted to a new house at that time (1993) was hopeless, I reckon it took them only a couple of minutes to force the door, and that the furniture on the fire door into the garage was equally hopeless - I reckon they would have got through that in a couple of minutes if they hadn't been disturbed.  They didn't even look through the house at all, just went straight for the garage, even though there was no car in it at the time (not that they knew that).

 

If it were me, then I'd go for the steel door and frame set, especially at that price, as long as it won't look too out of place when viewed from inside the house.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by JSHarris

[Russell griffiths]

My opinion on this would be that if I had made it inside your house I would now have a lot of time to get through ANY door you put in my way.  

I have dealt a lot in theft of machinery in the past in my previous life whatever you show me I will work out how to get past it. 

If it is car theft that really worries you I think a good immobiliser and a tracker would be good as well as a lift out post in front of the garage door either inside all outside. 

 

I think the door between the garage and house is just there to slow them down a minute or two. 

 

They do say security should be like an onion, layer after layer, they get through one to be greeted by another, all the time the alarm is wailing away after a few minutes they'll want to be leaving. 

 

Most thefts are over very quickly they don't want to be in there to long

 

Roller door, steel internal door, house alarm, immobiliser, tracker, lift out post. 

 

What you want is them to go somewhere else. 

[PeterW]

I've just ordered a steel door from AJ Doors as per that link. Will be the second one I've fitted and they are fantastic pieces of kit right from the fitters keys through to the   quality of the handles and finish. 

 

Getting through one will make a lot of noise - pretty much the only way is a grinder through the door itself or cutting every bolt holding it in. 

 

Powder coat finish is very good - if needed you could make it part of a pair with the inner being an "ordinary" internal door and the garage side being this one. 

 

 

[JaneM]

We are having an integral garage. 

Do we really need to consider this kind of door?

Or is it that I am looking at the world through rose coloured glasses?

[Vijay]

8 minutes ago, JaneM said:

We are having an integral garage. 

Do we really need to consider this kind of door?

Or is it that I am looking at the world through rose coloured glasses?

I guess that all depends on where you live and how concerned you are about your garage being broken into. If you have a nice car or tools in there, probably worth considering, if it's just storage then probably not. 

[PeterW]

Also depends on your insurer. Some treat the garage as an external space (unless you have BS standard locks on the external main door) so the garage to house door becomes an external door for insurance purposes. That then indicates what is needed by way of locks/ security etc. 

[RichS]

I too will have an integral garage. My thinking is that this door will also need to be airtight as it will form part of "the envelope" because a garage roller or whatever door certainly won't be airtight.

If an integral garage gets broken into the police deal with it as burglary, if a detached garage gets broken into they deal with it as criminal damage.

[JaneM]

We live in Rural Norfolk, we both have what we consider to be nice cars which are kept garaged and the good tools will be banished from the garage.

Fortunately we have some storage sheds for tools.

Our large guard dog might help ?

[Vijay]

I've got a GSD and she's a fantastic guard dog - but useless as one if I'm walking her

[AliG]

Thanks @PeterW. Good to hear some first hand experience.

 

I will also be putting the alarm panel behind a locked door. Our neighbours were broken into and where we live currently all the burglar alarms were installed by the builder in the understair cupboards. The burglars knew this and simply disabled it by ripping it off the wall.

 

We will have various bits of security, my wife has become a bit paranoid after break in attempts in our house and lots of break ins in the area, all car related. We always put the cars in the garage now, I reckon they'll just move on to a house where they can see the cars and know they are there. The neighbours who were broken into, despite knowing there have been a recent spate of cars being stolen went on holiday for two weeks leaving their car in the driveway and no security lights or any other lights in the house making it very obvious they were away.

[Ferdinand]

The other issue is that the garage may provide an easier way into the house if your garage door is less secure than your front door ... which suggests an external quality door.

 

An alternative to steel could be a fibreboard external door. That would be better insulation wise but more expensive.

 

Ferdinand

 

[ProDave]

We had a shed broken into when we were in Oxfordshire. They found 2 motorbikes in there and left empty handed. I guess they were looking for lawnmowers etc.

[AliG]

Thanks for everyone's help. I gave the Latham door details to the builder to order.

[PeterW]

Funny that - picked mine up today for another job ..!!

 

Got there at 4:59pm, they close at 5pm but they still unlocked and even put it in the car for me. 

 

Comprehensive fitting kit - packers, bolts and drill bit included and also a T-bar for doing the bolts up. Will take some photos when it's in.  

[Alexphd1]

At this stage as well. Is there anything like the link but with insulation as well. I also need to source a solid insulated external back door with good airtightness that doesn't cost a bomb .... Any pointers much appreciated. 

[Nickfromwales]

On 13 August 2017 at 12:36, PeterW said:

if needed you could make it part of a pair with the inner being an "ordinary" internal door and the garage side being this one. 

 

That's exactly what I'd do. BFO steel framed door that swings shut from the garage side and bolts and locks from inside the house, powder coated to make it look better. Lateral restraints through the block work / fabric of the house so it can't just be jemmy'd off. Then the nicer looking timber fore door that opens into the house, with a Chubb lock at each corner ( x4 ). Once they knacker themselves beating the shit out of that one, ( bearing in mind it'll be then resting against the metal door  ) they'll be greeted by the metal door.

For periods where the house is empty, have the cars backed against the rear wall as tight as you can get them and then drop in / down posts tight to the front bumpers, so even if they get the keys they can't go any further, but taking the keys with you or putting them in a safe is better. 

 

On 13 August 2017 at 19:08, AliG said:

I will also be putting the alarm panel behind a locked door. Our neighbours were broken into and where we live currently all the burglar alarms were installed by the builder in the understair cupboards. The burglars knew this and simply disabled it by ripping it off the wall.

Those alarms must have been non-certified pieces of crap. The entry level basic alarms still have a battery backup in the external bell / siren box so even if the alarm panel is ripped from the wall the external unit should be wailing for at least the factory set 15 mins or so regardless. Having two external siren boxes is better, one in clear view and one out of immediate eyesight so they may target the main one but miss the other. 

And lights, lots of bright security lights. 

On Ebuild I posted about how I linked certain lighting circuits in the house to my alarm strobe output. That basically meant upon my alarm being activated / triggered, my downstairs kitchen and lobby lights came on, plus the outside lights ( 2x500w halogen lights up high ( under the soffit ) so nobody could tamper with them ) which lit the back yard up like a stadium. As we'd had individuals coming up the garden to reach the rear of the house I wanted an early deterrent so I bought the battery powered wireless PIR system and that worked very well. It basically imitated someone switching the porch 500w halogen light on if anyone got into the back garden which made anyone approaching that way think that the occupants were active / awake. I placed the transmitter in the rear quarter facing back towards the house so getting halfway up the garden would trigger it, but it would also come on as a comfort light for us if we went into the garden normally.

The benefit of linking to the strobe output of the alarm is that after the alarm has sounded / been activated the strobe stays latched, even after the sounders silence themselves ( usually factory set to no more than 14-15 mins on a certified system by default ) until you physically return and fully reset the alarm. Even if the alarm is triggered whilst your asleep, you getting up in a daze and entering the code to silence the alarm whilst you investigate will not turn the lights off. That means you can immediately dart to the nearest window and see what is going on without having to go and switch any lights on to do so. I went with that option so swmbo could see out without having to leave the house, as I was away abroad a lot back in those days. I also linked a switch from the upstairs rear window that brought all 3 x 500w halogen lights on so the back could be lit up without any PIR or alarm activation, so we could simply view the rear / side of any suspicious noises were heard at night. Saw off at least two wannabe trespassers with that approach, as swmbo is a light sleeper. The second the lights came on they sprinted. 

The big piss-me-off was both of the two latter see-offs were both less than a month before Xmas, one like 3 days before.

Bastards. 

[PeterW]

16 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

BFO steel framed door that swings shut from the garage side and bolts and locks from inside the house, powder coated to make it look better.

 

@Nickfromwales that's what Lathams doors are - worth a look at the website as they do them in all different sizes and styles and they start with a minimum 19 point locking .... not sure what they expect them to be covering but I'm sure the one I've just got came with 8 bolts too ..! 

 

Good doors are only a deterrent - if you've got something they want, they will get to it ..! You only have to look at Hatton Garden to see that ...!

[Nickfromwales]

?

Noise and slowing them down is a bonus. 

Theives are lazy and know the same prize is available elsewhere with less effort. When they see that lot they'll move on. 

[PeterW]

I know one of the guys who used to install these .... he has one in his garage ..! (An ex-demo unit.. )

 

http://www.fsesecuritysystems.co.uk/security-fog.htm

 

It's 7 seconds from see everything to see nothing - he's also got a few halogens in there that flash randomly when it goes off and it's not a pleasant place to be ..!!  

 

[Jeremy Harris]

56 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

The big piss-me-off was both of the two latter see-offs were both less than a month before Xmas, one like 3 days before.

Bastards. 

 

A police officer friend told me a while ago that theft crime rates rocket in the month up to Christmas.  The bastards know that there will be new, unopened, Christmas presents stored away, and they have a higher value than second hand stolen stuff.

[Jeremy Harris]

16 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I know one of the guys who used to install these .... he has one in his garage ..! (An ex-demo unit.. )

 

http://www.fsesecuritysystems.co.uk/security-fog.htm

 

It's 7 seconds from see everything to see nothing - he's also got a few halogens in there that flash randomly when it goes off and it's not a pleasant place to be ..!!  

 

 

Pity the fog isn't knock-out gas as well......................

[PeterW]

4 hours ago, JSHarris said:

 

Pity the fog isn't knock-out gas as well......................

 

Replace it with halon.....

[AliG]

The builder offered me the option of an interior door and a steel door but as it is in the utility room I wasn't too bothered about a plain white door and it seemed like a bit of a faff to have two doors.

[Nickfromwales]

9 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

Replace it with halon.....

Cyanide is quicker. 

 

13 hours ago, JSHarris said:

 

Pity the fog isn't knock-out gas as well......................

Maybe better TBH. Some time to 'sort them out' before they come round .