Vijay Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Hi all, After some crazy prices to dig the foundations, a couple of mates have suggested buying a digger and doing them myself. I've never used one but I've been told they are pretty easy to pick up the controls, so I'm contemplating on giving it a go. I need to go down between 1.2 and 1.5m and maybe a but deeper for a RWH tank? Any suggestions on what size of digger I should be looking at and anything else I should be considering when buying one? Cheers Vijay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Just ask @recoveringacademic. He is your man for "how to buy a digger" I don't think it has been brought over yet, But this would be a good place to start http://www.ebuild.co.uk/topic/18040-checklist-buying-used-mini-digger/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Mine is an old 3 ton Komatsu I dug off nearly a metre of top soil, shifting probably 150 tons of soil in the process Then dug the strip foundations And the deepest job, was digging a hole abourt 2.5 metres deep for the treatment plant, here we are almost at full reach down into the ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 There's loads of firms round here charging an hourly rate for man and machine. The prices are so tight I don't think you will make it pay just on your founds. There are definitely scenarios in which it is beneficial to buy but you take their hourly rate, subtract your normal working rate, the cost of a machine plus allow longer for your inexperience and you'll be worse off most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 2 hours ago, Vijay said: Hi all, After some crazy prices to dig the foundations, a couple of mates have suggested buying a digger and doing them myself. I've never used one but I've been told they are pretty easy to pick up the controls, so I'm contemplating on giving it a go. I need to go down between 1.2 and 1.5m and maybe a but deeper for a RWH tank? Any suggestions on what size of digger I should be looking at and anything else I should be considering when buying one? Cheers Vijay What does the price include..? If you have a price for creating levels, excavating strip foundations and muck away it is a whole world away from the cost of just the digging. A JCB around here with a decent operator is about £28 an hour - I can hire one for £350 a week, but I know he will do more in 2 days than I will in a week..! And that's before I've added in my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Hire one in for a day and strip a bit of the site. It's not as easy as it looks. It's a skill to be able to dig a trench with a nice level bottom. It's not a job for a complete novice. Way too many things that could go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandAbuild Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 We began with a 5 tonne excavator, before being upgraded to an 8 tonne one. Both would have done the job, but the bigger one was better as it had a longer reach - this was important for reaching the 20 tonne muck away lorries to avoid fouling an overhead BT line. Both made short work of uprooting some tree stumps on site. You should be able to completely strip a site in a few days, as long as the lorries keep coming!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandAbuild Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 One skill is knowing which foundation to dig first, so you avoid getting 'shut out' with nowhere to stand to dig out others. And keeping to the setting out lines, which get obliterated as you dig out the trench! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I still say my digger has been the best buy of the job. It's not just the savings on man & machine hire (in that respect it has paid for itself already) but the fact it is there all the time to be used whenever I need it. So I don't have to plan to get a machine in to do a job, and I don't have to group it all up into a "package" I can do little bits as time and site conditions allow with no pressure to get the machine off hire. I would say the same is true with my own scaffold. It's been a slow proces with me doing all the work on the outside of the house, but at least there has been no hire charge racking up and pressuring me to rush the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I suspect the cost balance between buying a digger, then selling it on afterwards, versus getting in a bloke with a big digger by the day, will vary enormously with the type of site. Take our site, for example. We had to dig down 2.5m or so over a large part of the site, remove 900 tonnes of muckaway and excavate foundations for a massive concrete retaining wall along two sides. There's no way that I could have done that with a purchased digger, we had an 8 tonne and a 15 tonne machine working all day, every day for a couple of weeks to get that lot shifted. The added cost of the "baby" machine digging the services trenches was probably a couple of hundred pounds or so. On the other hand, a flat site where all you're doing is stripping the surface, foundation and service trenches, may well swing the balance the other way, and make buying a small machine more economically viable, especially if you're doing a lot of the work yourself and have the time to do things at your own pace, where the ready availability of the digger has a bigger impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Like Jeremy, we had a fair amount to dig out and shift, and there was no realistic way that a small digger would be a viable proposition. As Jeremy says, it is circumstance dependent, with site complexity and time being the two biggest variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Thanks guys. I'm just at the weighing up stage at the moment. I'll look into hiring with and without a driver too. My site is pretty flat with nothing to remove in terms of existing buildings or walls. It's just over 1/2 acre with no access issues or overhanging cables. I've got the following to do: Footings (between 1.2 and .5m), drainage, RWH tank, soakaways, service trench, quite a large front drive (will be block paving but I will need to get a working surface down as it's clay), paths around the sides of the house, garage concrete slab, rear patio area, about 220m of hedges to plant and site levelling. My thinking is like ProDave, it would be extremely handy to have on site as and when I need, as this is a 5 year project for me Also, can a digger happily be used to lift materials up to say first floor level? What sort of size digger should I be considering (or not considering) for my needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 It is possible to get a fork lift attachment for a digger to lift stuff, but it would not be very good on an old machine like mine that tends to be a bit jerky in its movements. They are good for picking things up with slings or ropes, I used the digger to lift the treatment plant into its hole I wouldn't have wanted anything smaller than my 3 ton machine. On the other hand the builders I used brought their 13 ton machine to pour the concrete (for its greater bucket capacity and much longer reach) but it was very tight moving that around our site so that size would have been too big for general use on our site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 A mini digger won't have the reach to get to first floor. I doubt it would have enough power as well. A 10 tonne might get you there but a 13t def will. I have loaded out peaks with a 13t before up to wall plate height. What materials are you looking lifted up to first floor height. If it's a 5 year project then you will have plenty of time to get used to a digger and when all your friends and neighbours know you have a digger you will get plenty of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 20 minutes ago, Declan52 said: A mini digger won't have the reach to get to first floor. I doubt it would have enough power as well. A 10 tonne might get you there but a 13t def will. I have loaded out peaks with a 13t before up to wall plate height. What materials are you looking lifted up to first floor height. If it's a 5 year project then you will have plenty of time to get used to a digger and when all your friends and neighbours know you have a digger you will get plenty of practice. I don't have anything in mind that I need to lift to first floor, I guess I was just wondering what else a digger could be used for So for general works, a minimum for 3 tonne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Anywhere from a 2.5t to a 5t should do the vast majority of the jobs you will have to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Vijay said: I don't have anything in mind that I need to lift to first floor, I guess I was just wondering what else a digger could be used for So for general works, a minimum for 3 tonne? You can run over newts and Planners with it. 3 tonne is sensible, but check the read and max depth of hole you need. Edited June 7, 2016 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Vijay said: I don't have anything in mind that I need to lift to first floor, I guess I was just wondering what else a digger could be used for So for general works, a minimum for 3 tonne? Just man up. I carried all my roof tiles to the roof up a ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 lol I'm a Londoner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Hello Vijay. Here's the original post on the matter I have a 2 tonner. The thing that nobody tells you is the way your mind changes as you come to start thinking about how to solve problems with a digger - as opposed to without a digger which for me was the normal way until a few weeks ago. ConstructionChannel puts it best: '...See a problem, turn the key...' Jobs which in my minds eye would take a whole day (move a newt hibernacular) took 10 minutes with the dozer blade. Jobs which were impossible on my own - make a woodmill work-bed out of two large (500+ kg) tree stumps took me an hour on my own. I've always wanted a land drain across our lawn - but couldn't face the job with a shovel. It's a nice-to have, but not essential. It took an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Cheers. I read your post on the Ebuild forum and I will be taking that if I buy one (which is becoming more appealing). I'm certainly not opposed to digging with shovels and getting my hands dirty, but already having a bad back does make me think ahead and not want to damage it any more - and therefore have to hold up work. Does your site insurance cover your digger and what about after your site insurance ends? I emailed a local hire place and they say their 1.4 tonne mini digger will dig to just over 2m. I'm happy to look at 3 tonne machines but what benefit will a bigger machine give me, is it just not pushing it's limits for everything? (so it's cruising doing the work) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 A bigger machine will dig the same hole quicker, it can lift more soil per shovelfull. Having the longer reach means you have to move the digger less when digging a trench. I found for moving soil (without a dumper) the dozer blade was the answer. Pile up a good 10 bucket loads in front of the blade and push. the larger machines have a bigger dozer so can move more, but the really big machines tend not to have a dozer at all. When you start pushing, some comes out the side, but you soon end up with a tramway like this and then you lose very little on the way, and it's easy to go back and clear up when you are finished. My site insurance covers the digger. The bit to be aware of is all those neighbours who say "I see you have a digger....." I declined to do any work for others because then there would be no insurance cover off my own site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) WHy not have a day at Diggerland first to try out different sizes, if you can? Edited June 8, 2016 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Just to illustrate my point earlier in the thread have a look at this.... The 'pillars' were inserted by using the digger - the holes dug, the hemlock tree sawn in two and 'posted' into the holes - both back-filled by the digger , the cedar tree off loaded from the trailer (at full 3 meter stretch) and dropped onto the rails (4 by 4s). All on my own with no help. And I thought diggers were for digging holes. And that's Tess, the Chicken Dog. She spends all day rounding up chickens and herding them into the branches of a Bay tree. Yep, I dunno why either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Look at that lovely shinny shackle on the back of the bucket. I bet it makes lifting a lot easier for you. And if you need a few inches of extra height just open the bucket out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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