Crack in wall and sagging bedroom floor

[mattsm]

Hi everyone, I was hoping to get some advice on an issue I've seen in a Victorian terraced house I have been considering buying. It's in need of modernisation throughout and the most concerning thing is in the front bedroom of the property, where there's a large crack in the wall and a sagging floor.

What might be the cause of this? There's a bay on the front of the house and the roof of that would be around where this crack is, and I wasn't sure if it might be related. Appreciate any opinions! Matt

[Dave Jones]

cosmetic.

 

would have been built on no footings at all.

[ProDave]

I am not so  sure.  I would say failed or failing lintel above the bay window.

 

The lintel will be bridging the brickwork, just below downstairs ceiling level and probably the bedroom joists are spanning front to back on that lintel.

 

You could get a surveyor to look at it and give an opinion, but nobody will tell for sure without exposing some of the structure and a surveyor won't do that.

[ETC]

Open up the ceiling in the GF room and take a look. Agree with @ProDave probably a failed or failing lintel.

[ProDave]

Might also be possible to see by taking off some of the bay window roof tiles.  Probably no under felt behind those.

[saveasteading]

I think it might be serious. It is an old house and a century is enough for the building to settle down, and be repaired once or more.

 

It is a weak area of wall, with 2 window openings creating a pier, which then sits over another window opening.

 

That doesn't mean it can't be repaired.

I am usually relaxed about cracks but not this one. 

Needs to be looked at first hand, and possibly monitored to see if it is stable or moving.

 

What width would you say the crack is at both ends?

The rule of thumb is if a pound coin fits in but not that simple. 

 

Bottom line...you might take the risk and be comfortable in it, but selling again could be an issue.

At least you know someone hasn't concealed this for selling.

[ProDave]

For me, the house would have to be special, very special, or cheap, to take on the risk and cost.  As it looks to be an ordinary Victorian terrace, I would keep on looking.

[Marvin]

or get a builder to give you an estimate for the work, double it, and look to get that amount off the price!!!

[George]

Possibly the lintel or the bay has moved a bit. 

[Brickie]

The lintol over the bay is very likely to be timber (known as a bresummer) and has probably deflected substantially,if not failed completely. I would factor in replacement when calculating how much you’re prepared to pay for the property. 

[saveasteading]

The cost of the survey, design, the work and the disruption. (£3k???). Double that for what else you discover while doing it.

(Will the windows need attention?)

Double it again for the risk you are taking and the hassle.£12k.

Sounds almost enough to be sure.

If you need tdmporary accomodation then allow for that.

 

That just covers the cost and is getting the house back in shape, nog making money for you.

 

Take that off any offer and await refusal, then someone else will have the process, and trouble getting a mortgage.

Or a builder will buy it, conceal it, pretend to live in it, and sell on. Next purchaser may have a recurrence. 

[Sparrowhawk]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Or a builder will buy it, conceal it, pretend to live in it, and sell on. Next purchaser may have a recurrence. 

Surely not... /s

[markc]

Very similar situation couple of years ago, timber lintel had failed and whole front needed pulling out and rebuilding

[Gus Potter]

10 hours ago, Brickie said:

The lintol over the bay is very likely to be timber (known as a bresummer) and has probably deflected substantially,if not failed completely. I would factor in replacement when calculating how much you’re prepared to pay for the property. 

That is a really good spot! Hat off to you. Has got me thinking..

 

The Bresummer is under the window cills above and close to the vulnerable flashings over the bay window. Also it's brick, not rendered so maybe some water penetration from a bit of both. I'm thinking.. have the ends of the Bressumer rotted a bit (assume timber) and dropped. If the floor is resting on the Bressumer then it will have dropped a bit too. Check the floor for level and look at the ceilings below.

 

But there may be a 5" iron beam holding up the outer face of the brickwork over the bay window. If the timber Bressumer is ok then has the iron beam rusted at the supports, expanded at the supports and actually lifted the masonry? Over time an iron beam like this can easily lift the masonry by 5 - 10 mm. There may be an iron beam both on the inside and outside, the outer one has rusted more so lifted.

 

The nature of the crack in the wall is interesting. To make headway on a diagnosis you need to examine it really closely as it will yield clues. Some obvious things are to measure how wide it is and it does taper. Next is how much it has displaced sideways. There seems to be a little sideways displacement and a taper. Next is to see how the windows open and shut, check for verticality and examine the paint on the windows. Also try and age the paint on the walls. Does the paint go into the crack.. helps you date things. Ask.. has anyone been messing with the ground floor bay window and were there any massive trees growing in the front garden, problems with the drains for example! You have to look at loads of stuff if only to rule things out.. like have the water board just put a main sewer in the road or is there not HGV traffic (vibration) where there was not before.

 

You also examine the whole building to see if there are any other signs of distress.

 

Going back to the crack. You see it is wider near the left window when viewed from the inside. That requires more info to get to the bottom of the issue.
 

On 13/05/2023 at 16:00, mattsm said:

Hi everyone, I was hoping to get some advice on an issue I've seen in a Victorian terraced house I have been considering buying.

 

In terms of buying the place apply common sense, look at the whole building and speak to the neighbours for example.

 

Should you buy it? Can't say just yet but so long as the rest of the house is ok, the roof not sagging and other cracking not apparent then if you put in a bit more work you should be able to get a handle on what it may cost to put this bit right.