ICF How much more expensive ?

[saveasteading]

?

13 hours ago, Nick Laslett said:

Here is the generic Kore construction detail,

 

What is the purpose of the radon barrier outside the building?

 

[Nick Laslett]

13 hours ago, saveasteading said:

?

 

What is the purpose of the radon barrier outside the building?

 

My understanding is that radon barrier is a typical requirement in Ireland, and because Tanner and Kore are both Irish based, it is a standard detail that they include. 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Nick Laslett said:

My understanding is that radon barrier is a typical requirement in Ireland, and because Tanner and Kore are both Irish based, it is a standard detail that they include. 

Yup. They do it as a knee-jerk iirc. 

[Nickfromwales]

14 hours ago, ChrisJ said:

I don't agree with the DPM between the top of the slab and the wall, may as well just slather some butter on there as the bond will be the same

This type of separation has been commonplace since the concept of a DPC/M came about. 
 

A nonsense statement afaic. 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Nick Laslett said:

, it is a standard detail

It isn't terribly expensive and  removes a a real danger.  But outside the building?

[Gus Potter]

On 09/05/2023 at 14:59, saveasteading said:

I have used every method of my table apart from ICF, which I tried to make work on a few projects. But that was as a professional.

Hi all.

 

As an SE..  ICF is just temporary formwork replaced by permenant insulation. There is nothing here (for me) that is complex / more difficult in terms of structural design. The concrete wall does not know if you have fitted the insulation before or after!

 

You have Kore etc but the real money lies in local contractor cost. All ICF walls are fundamentally the same.. yes the method of tying the outer and inner leaves of insulation may differ as does how the ICF system locks together but in the grand scheme of things it's a moot point.

 

Often what matters is where you are in the country and access to builders that are familiar with how you shutter and support the different ICF systems. It's just not economic for a Contractor to do the odd ICF job in parts of the country as you need to invest in kit that can be used more than once.

 

This is a major issue when selecting the best and most cost effective method of construction. 

 

Often to get best bang for your buck you need to look at contractor availability.

 

In some ways it is a post code lottery in terms of build cost. As a designer and advisor I have to let you know how your location can dramaticaly influence the build cost.

 

I'm going to pick out @Nickfromwales here as he is a go ahead guy with decades of experience behind him. I've mentioned Nick here as he has spent a lot of time demonstrating on BH that he knows his stuff.

 

If Nick can see enough of a turn and repeat business then the ICF cost will come down.. Nick is from Wales... maybe not London prices but enough for him to make a good living?

 

 

 

 

[Conor]

100% agree with @Gus Potter

 

When we settled for ICF, the first thing I did after learning the basics of ICF, was scope out contractors. There were basically four guys in the entire country that did icf at the time. One was discounted due to not so great reputation. Other was just too busy. So was down to two. System didn't matter, as Gus says it's just formwork to hold the business end of things together. Drawings based on generic ICF and requirement in the contract to meet the required U values, so was easy to send out and get prices. 

 

Building again, first thing I'd do is look at what is done locally, and take it from there. Personally, I wouldn't use ICF again, primarily because of the huge embedded carbon figures, I'd be going timber frame, cellulose insulation, with brick outer skin.

[Nickfromwales]

My go to ICF (and raft) installer bought his own props / staging etc as, as said, the costs are then reduced if you can buy these and just absorb the purchase cost over the volume of work they’ll lend themselves to.

 

If you have that ethos then you can reduce your costs and the impact of hire etc to the client, making you more attractive / cost-effective. 
 

It also tells someone that this chap is so busy he has been able to warrant purchasing this stuff outright, and busy often means you’re good / reputable. Not always, before antibody says it, but the cost of moving and storing that stuff between projects defo makes it extremely uneconomical to own. 

 

Also, either not, or just minimally, advertising, speaks volumes (where both he and I are so busy we don’t really need to). Another big overhead that doesn’t need to be input in your overheads / profit / pricing to the client 👌