johnhenstock83 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 afternoon everyone, I'm at my wits' end with our previous builder, I am starting to think that we hired a cowboy. this was "confirmed" by several other builders being a bit shocked about some aspects of the build. long story short, we paid someone what I consider to be a significant amount for an extension shell. brick/block walls, block and beam oversite and a flat roof covered in GRP. there were quite a few red flags during the construction phase, but I wasn't there all the time and I gave the builder the benefit of the doubt. long story short, our roof was completed towards the end of last year and we haven't had rain since, nothing serious anyway. today, we did and my roof is leaking... badly. aside from that, I was made aware by a builder we'll have to employ to fix the problems and finish our extension that there are other problems with the roof too. the height of the wall plate is not right, the double joists around the skylights are not held by anything, they are screwed into the original joist (basically adding MORE load, as opposed to taking half of it), there are no noggins at all, firrings are only present on some joists, not all and the plywood is not resting on the joists everywhere, meaning there are parts where they're sagging. I know that I would normally speak to the builder and ask him to make good the work, but we're about to spend another £30k on a kitchen/floor etc. and I really lost trust in this builder's ability to do anything properly, especially given the above. I know he'll come back and offer to "honour the warranty", but it will be the same people. some of them have been fired on the spot for lying about being roofers. I can't pray that they fix something properly this time, in the hope that I won't have to rip out my ceiling every time there's an issue, hence we decided to cut our losses and proceed with a new builder who advised on rebuilding the roof. how can I best go about getting some of my money back? I'm not looking for a fortune, several thousands at most (£3k). is that even possible given the legal system we have or am I stuck with giving him another chance? and another? warranty is good, but we haven't even started using the roof yet, so to speak, and it's dripping like a tap! thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Sorry here about your situation, all too often I’m afraid. Your first call is to give them the opportunity to put it right, at their cost. If you don’t want them to, wait to get their agreement to put things right, add that you can see it will cost them 5 or 6k and you would be willing to take 3k and them walk away. but they may well see through your plan and simply go to ground knowing you don’t want them back anyway. And you would find it hard to legal action without giving them the chance to put it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhenstock83 Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 thanks for that, it's what I was afraid of. there's simply no point having them back, it won't be done properly and even without the leaks, it's not a proper roof. it baffles me that building control signed everything off, they should've at least picked up the other shortcomings. I will have a chat with the builder and hope he's reasonable. otherwise, it's a bad review and a very expensive lesson learned. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 did you need building regs on the extension ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhenstock83 Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 no. it's PD with building control sign off as we go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Building control are not there that much, so really depends on what they did or didn't see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhenstock83 Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 I know, but I did call them back after the other builders warned me things are not ok and I asked specifically about the problems raised. He didn't seem concerned. For example, the wall plate is not held using epoxy bolts, but timber bolts going through the masonry. quite a few bolts, I'll give you that, but I was told it's not done. the double joists around the skylights are clearly not supported, they're screwed from the side in the first joist, so one joist is holding the roof, the skylight AND the second joist. I believe the BCO should've seen that from a mile away, he didn't say anything... anyway, fairly academic at this point in time, I've learned my lesson the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 depends how much energy and time you want to expend, you could get someone (surveyor so his report is recognised by the court) to list all the stuff thats wrong. Get it quoted by someone, preferably two other builders. Ask the original guy to make good in line with surveyors report, work to be inspected prior to completion. If at this point you get radio silence then its off to small claims. very very simple process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundtuit Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Dave Jones said: depends how much energy and time you want to expend, you could get someone (surveyor so his report is recognised by the court) to list all the stuff thats wrong. Get it quoted by someone, preferably two other builders. Ask the original guy to make good in line with surveyors report, work to be inspected prior to completion. If at this point you get radio silence then its off to small claims. very very simple process. ..or tell the builder that's what your plan is, then try and negotiate a refund as an alternative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 If you wanted to go to court you would have to show you had given the builder opportunity to rectify the defects. That normally means a letter sent recorded delivery setting out the problems and giving him a reasonable time to fix them. Otherwise when you get to court he will claim he offered to fix all the problems free of charge but wasn't given opportunity. If you have lost all confidence in him and don't want him back you might have to give up on court action unless anyone else knows different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyj007 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) hang on .. first point of call is contact building control.. some of the issues you have listed, would not pass basic building control requirements.. they are there (and charged hansomely no doubt) to make sure that the structure is at least built to minimum standards.safe and fit for pupose , get them out for a structual inspection.. with this information you can go back to builders.. if you choiose it is understandable that if the builders couldnt not do it right the first time then they are unlikely to the second time, but at least hold building control accounatble for taking your money for site inspections .. things like roof trimmers not being correct are structual items , if they have passed them fit and they do not meet there own regulation requirements , it shoud have been picked up.. if it has been missed then id be claiming against building control.. get them back out for an inspection tommorrow.. or it may have been picked up and your builders have ignoired it,, but again thsi gives you amunitiion to reuest the 3k or proceed ith court proceedings if they do not put it right at their cost .. Edited March 8, 2023 by andyj007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETC Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Can you post pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETC Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Good luck trying to sue BC. Use the small claims court for the builder. Ask him directly for a refund if not go to the small claims court. I presume you don’t have a contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhenstock83 Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 We do have a contract, luckily. I'm just waiting for my bad cold to pass and I'll invite BCO back to discuss, see if there's anything I can do. I hope it won't trigger him to be extremely critical about everything else, but the walls seem ok. I'll revert with some pictures too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 19 minutes ago, johnhenstock83 said: We do have a contract, luckily. I'm just waiting for my bad cold to pass and I'll invite BCO back to discuss, see if there's anything I can do. I hope it won't trigger him to be extremely critical about everything else, but the walls seem ok. I'll revert with some pictures too. Email building control and ask for a breakdown of their responsibilities, and also contact the Citizens Advice Bureau as they can offer free impartial, honest ( sometimes brutally honest ) advice to you so that you do not trip yourself up during this process. I doubt they would become pedantic about anything else as that would see them leaping onto their own sword ( as why didn't they identify that during a previous visit ? ). I'd just ask the cowboy builder to supply all the materials for the re-build, and say that's all you want from them and they can leave without any further responsibilities, as, to be frank, this is now just about damage ( cost ) limitation and pretty much nothing else. The builder may already have a CCJ, so won't give two hoots about getting another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhenstock83 Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 Builder claims the leak is because of the boiler flue destroying the roof, even though the leaks are in random places. Is it worth getting a professional surveyor and take him to court? There are many problems with the roof and I’ve got photographic evidence, but other than a refund, I don’t want anything to do with this cowboy. Is it worth chasing or shall I just pay for a new roof and move on with my life? We’ve been stressing since we started the whole thing, no one seems to take thing seriously anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Do consider what happens after you win the court claim. You need a real address for the defendant and he needs to be able to pay you. Bad builders often aren't rich. I'd pay land registry £3 to see if he owns his house before starting on a court case. I learnt the hard way. You don't want to throw good money after bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, sam said: Do consider what happens after you win the court claim. You need a real address for the defendant and he needs to be able to pay you. Bad builders often aren't rich. I'd pay land registry £3 to see if he owns his house before starting on a court case. I learnt the hard way. You don't want to throw good money after bad. a ccj will be a massive issue to him if he's a sole trader. gone all the credit accounts. You can take his car, van etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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