Centring downlighters

[MortarThePoint]

The downstairs hall has the landing above and will have 4 downlighters along under the landing. I've shown this below. The red line is the edge of the landing which is further over than previously expected due to the steel beam bearing on the right hand side. We're unsure which line is best for the downlighters:

1. Orange: centred on the doors at each end
2. Blue: centred on the ceiling section under the landing

The wife and I are not in agreement as to which is the better choice and I'd like to see what others think 🙂 Arguments for each approach would be much appreciated.

For reference, the lateral positions of the 4 downlights is centred on the stair turn, middle of each double door and then middle of WC door.

 

 

[Adrian Walker]

Which is wife's choice, orange or blue?

[PeterW]

Stagger them - looks better than a set of runway lights 

[Rob99]

I've seen lighting designs where a row of spots is positioned closer to the side wall and washes light down the wall.

 

Can be quite effective.

[MortarThePoint]

7 hours ago, Adrian Walker said:

Which is wife's choice, orange or blue?

That would be telling 🙂

Hers is probably the right choice 😂

[MortarThePoint]

7 hours ago, Rob99 said:

I've seen lighting designs where a row of spots is positioned closer to the side wall and washes light down the wall.

 

Can be quite effective.

 

Yes I've seen that done nicely too. Not sure it would work so well here with two by doors. We're also planning to use panelling on that wall.

[MortarThePoint]

7 hours ago, PeterW said:

Stagger them - looks better than a set of runway lights 

 

Could have the end two centred in doors and middle two centred on ceiling 

[Adrian Walker]

2 hours ago, MortarThePoint said:

That would be telling 🙂

Hers is probably the right choice 😂

The centre is the best IMHO. Also you need to think about what are the light there for? Looks vs. function 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Adrian Walker

[joth]

8 hours ago, Rob99 said:

I've seen lighting designs where a row of spots is positioned closer to the side wall and washes light down the wall.

 

Can be quite effective.

 

Yup this was my thought too - position them at equal spacings washing the walls, or put very narrow beam angle directly over the door entrances themselves.

 

We have a similar landing bulkhead over part of the hallway, it's what you see as you enter the hall from main entrance door, and it works well.  Uunderstand with wood panelling it might not wash quite so well as a white wall, perhaps increasing the LUX or number a bit will offset that.

 

Either way IMO it's the view from the main entrance you want to optimize for, and you'll never read the difference between your blue and orange lines from that prime viewing angle - it'll only be evident when walking along the length of the corridor. And putting them clearly off centre avoids either possibility of being 'wrong' 🙂

 

 

Some scrappy photos from mid-build to illustrate 🙂

 

View from main entrance door:

 

 

View walking along corridor

 

[MikeSharp01]

10 hours ago, MortarThePoint said:

For reference, the lateral positions of the 4 downlights is centred on the stair turn, middle of each double door and then middle of WC door.

Does that mean they are equally spaced? If you can see them from a position outside the run but on the axis will uneven positioning not offend the eye?

 

9 hours ago, PeterW said:

Stagger them - looks better than a set of runway lights 

Runway lights BAD! 

[Carrerahill]

11 hours ago, MortarThePoint said:

The downstairs hall has the landing above and will have 4 downlighters along under the landing. I've shown this below. The red line is the edge of the landing which is further over than previously expected due to the steel beam bearing on the right hand side. We're unsure which line is best for the downlighters:

1. Orange: centred on the doors at each end
2. Blue: centred on the ceiling section under the landing

The wife and I are not in agreement as to which is the better choice and I'd like to see what others think 🙂 Arguments for each approach would be much appreciated.

For reference, the lateral positions of the 4 downlights is centred on the stair turn, middle of each double door and then middle of WC door.

 

 

Orange line. Every time you look out one of the end doors it will look out of alignment and annoy you. 

 

Or, use wall washers down the wall, and then stagger some others to the other side so you create a washed wall of light, which tends to be what creates the perception somewhere is well lit because we look at vertical surfaces most of the time, floor could be practically in darkness and your eye would still think the room was well lit.  

[Mike]

11 hours ago, Rob99 said:

I've seen lighting designs where a row of spots is positioned closer to the side wall and washes light down the wall.

 

This gets my vote too - better to be deliberately off-centre than maybe-not-quite-centred.

 

If you decide against that, then what is the lighting doing in the rooms on either side of the doorway? You may need to consider the alignment of the lights between all 3 spaces.

[MortarThePoint]

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Does that mean they are equally spaced? If you can see them from a position outside the run but on the axis will uneven positioning not offend the eye?

 

Runway lights BAD! 

The left three are equally space, but the right most one is moved closer to the others by about 15% due to being in an alcove. Not sure that discrepancy will be evident from the main entrance

[MortarThePoint]

I think the wife wins it then, fat lot of good you lot were 🤣

 

Just kidding, all good thoughts and you've won me round. Looking at it from the main entrance you're not going to perceive the difference and walking along the hall from one end to the other the blue line would grate.

Closer to the wall may be an option, but I think the panelling and general aesthetic will mean the Orange line wins the day.

 

Where's my humble pie cook book, in some dusty corner somewhere.

[Carrerahill]

1 minute ago, MortarThePoint said:

I think the wife wins it then, fat lot of good you lot were 🤣

 

Just kidding, all good thoughts and you've won me round. Looking at it from the main entrance you're not going to perceive the difference and walking along the hall from one end to the other the blue line would grate.

Closer to the wall may be an option, but I think the panelling and general aesthetic will mean the Orange line wins the day.

 

Where's my humble pie cook book, in some dusty corner somewhere.

Well done for admitting you were the blue line advocate, I think I would have stayed quiet!

 

 

[Thorfun]

late to the party here but +1 for wall washing lights. you have a couple of walls where artwork can be displayed so could have wall washers at each end and then central outside the doors?

 

if you have the time download Dialux and render it out different ways to see how they look. at least then you can make a more informed decision!

[MikeSharp01]

6 hours ago, MortarThePoint said:

Where's my humble pie cook book, in some dusty corner somewhere.

Some of us have been forced to eat the book!

[Mike]

On 23/02/2023 at 13:16, MortarThePoint said:

The left three are equally space, but the right most one is moved closer to the others by about 15% due to being in an alcove. Not sure that discrepancy will be evident from the main entrance

It's not only the positioning on the ceiling that may get noticed. Depending on the fitting and the beam angle, the light cone / shadow cast on the wall may also look misaligned.

[MortarThePoint]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

It's not only the positioning on the ceiling that may get noticed. Depending on the fitting and the beam angle, the light cone / shadow cast on the wall may also look misaligned.

So many ways to get it wrong

I like these (link) which give off a nice diffuse light. They are very slim, but require a large (105mm) hole. Lumens per watt figure isn't great though.

https://auroralighting.com/Products/Download/EN-PL06B?Code=EN-PL06B&IsMicrolights=False&Brand=Enlite

[Mr Punter]

27 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

So many ways to get it wrong

I like these (link) which give off a nice diffuse light. They are very slim, but require a large (105mm) hole. Lumens per watt figure isn't great though.

https://auroralighting.com/Products/Download/EN-PL06B?Code=EN-PL06B&IsMicrolights=False&Brand=Enlite

 

Just bear in mind that if / when they fail and you will may have to do a lot of searching to find something else that will fit.

[Temp]

The beam angle of LED lights can vary from about 12 degrees to 180 degrees and this changes the overall effect. How "spotty" it is (narrow angles) and how much glare there is (wider angles). It also affects how close together they need to be for even lighting.

 

It's a personal choice. With wide angles you get more uniform lighting and positioning them less critical. With 100, 120 or 180 degree beam angles it probably wouldn't make much difference which line (red or blue) they are on. With narrower angles like 38 degrees you can get a more atmospheric/moody effect as per @joth's Hall.

 

@MortarThePoint Do you want these down lights to light up the rest of the hall? Eg not just the bit under the landing but the front door area as well? Is there another light near the door?  

 

 

[MortarThePoint]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Just bear in mind that if / when they fail and you will may have to do a lot of searching to find something else that will fit.

Good point! Benefits to staying standard.

[MortarThePoint]

Just now, Temp said:

Do you want these down lights to light up the rest of the hall? Eg not just the bit under the landing but the front door area as well? Is there another light near the door?  

Yes, so I'm thinking quite diffuse / wide angle is best. Those ones claim 110 degrees

[Temp]

1 minute ago, MortarThePoint said:

Good point! Benefits to staying standard.

 

Or buying a few spares. 

[MortarThePoint]

On 24/02/2023 at 17:40, Temp said:

 

Or buying a few spares. 

I was thinking to do that

 

I've also found these hole reducers which are a good use of a laser cutter.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123992774715

 

You can get fire rated too but not so DIY

https://www.downlights.co.uk/integral-hole-converter-plate-for-70-100mm-hole-sizes-evo-fire.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7eDLzOKy_QIVE49oCR1DlQ7REAQYDyABEgIh9PD_BwE#hole-converter-plate-for-70-100mm-hole-sizes-integral