Pipe layout sensible??

[AmKal]

Hi to everyone.  I'm in the middle of a project that has me worried about the layout of pipes. 

 

1. The mains water comes out of the ground (island will be on top) and then is to be buried screed 90mm and joined on to a pipe that goes through to the store room whilst going over UFH pipes to the boiler and tank.  The tap to turn off the water is located here.  Is this normal, okay?  Is it safe?

 

2.  The pipe work looks okay, it's separated a little, but the cold runs over pipes and join the store room with a tiny elbow to be covered by screed, is this safe?

 

3. Do I need a stop tap under the island from where the main water emerges from the ground or is it safe for it to travel in screed and then have a stop tap.

 

I've attached a few pics, really hope you can help in anyway.

[Conor]

I'm not going to comment on the plumbing as I'm sure Nick will be along soon, swearing.

 

Why is there so much dirt / rubble / stuff on top of the polythene and UFH pipes? Should be insulation down on Monday, polythene and edge insulation/expansion strips on the tuesday, UFH pipes on the Wednesday/Thursday, screed on the friday and back to business on the following Monday. And no other trades in between. Otherwise you open yourself up to a load of potential issues, damaged pipes, crushed / moved insulation boards, gaps in polythene etc.

[ProDave]

I was waiting to gauge other replies.

 

I was going to start by tactfully asking who has done that pipework?  and just to say that is not how i would do it.

[SimonD]

53 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I was going to start by tactfully asking who has done that pipework?  and just to say that is not how i would do it.

Ever the diplomat! 😁 Looks bloody awful if you ask me...

[PeterW]

Please tell me that’s not a yellow MDPE gas pipe running behind the UFH manifold..??!

 

Your cold pipe needs to be insulated but tbh it needs routing properly first. I’m assuming what you’re talking about is the connection from the black pipe to the white supply - if that is the main connection then it should have an isolator on it to start with at the join.

 

None of that D2 vent pipe work meets regs either - it must never go uphill, it’s too small and if the tank went it looks like it’s going to end up in the boiler ….

 

Did the plumber get his qualifications on eBay..???

 

@Nickfromwales sharpen your pencil … 

 

 

[AmKal]

10 hours ago, Conor said:

I'm not going to comment on the plumbing as I'm sure Nick will be along soon, swearing.

 

Why is there so much dirt / rubble / stuff on top of the polythene and UFH pipes? Should be insulation down on Monday, polythene and edge insulation/expansion strips on the tuesday, UFH pipes on the Wednesday/Thursday, screed on the friday and back to business on the following Monday. And no other trades in between. Otherwise you open yourself up to a load of potential issues, damaged pipes, crushed / moved insulation boards, gaps in polythene etc.

There are plenty of tears in the polythene as well as scaffolding pipes still in the ground that builder will 'fill' once removed.  🙄

 

Insulation boards are not that stable in places.  So I assume it must all be flat and crisp to the ground?  

[AmKal]

8 hours ago, PeterW said:

Please tell me that’s not a yellow MDPE gas pipe running behind the UFH manifold..??!

 

Your cold pipe needs to be insulated but tbh it needs routing properly first. I’m assuming what you’re talking about is the connection from the black pipe to the white supply - if that is the main connection then it should have an isolator on it to start with at the join.

 

None of that D2 vent pipe work meets regs either - it must never go uphill, it’s too small and if the tank went it looks like it’s going to end up in the boiler ….

 

Did the plumber get his qualifications on eBay..???

 

@Nickfromwales sharpen your pencil … 

 

 

Hi, yes the MDPE pipe goes behind the tank around the side of the storage room and then the builder has made a gap for it to come out by the front to be connected to mains.

 

The black pipe is indeed the main supply - oh man!  What do you mean by if the tank went?  

 

I'm assuming this all looks bad too, see pics??

[AmKal]

1 minute ago, AmKal said:

Hi, yes the MDPE pipe goes behind the tank around the side of the storage room and then the builder has made a gap for it to come out by the front to be connected to mains.

 

The black pipe is indeed the main supply - oh man!  What do you mean by if the tank went?  

 

I'm assuming this all looks bad too, see pics??

The white box in here will be removed and it will be outside.

[Conor]

I don't see padstones under your steels and barely 100mm bearing on that bottom one. Have building control been out recently?

Edited February 12, 2023 by Conor

[ProDave]

Well my thought on the plumbing now we are not pulling punches.

 

You want a stopcock where the rising main comes into the building. If that is under the island then the pipe needs to come up and a stopcock in one of the cupboards under the island.

 

If you then take a cold feed from there to other parts of the house you do NOT want that cold feed intermingled with all the UFH pipes and contained in the same pour as the UFH screed.  Re lay and create a bit of a gap in the UFH layout for it to pass through away from pipes and sleeve it with insulation.

 

A lot of the UFH layout is carp with a few of the bends on the verge of kinking, who knows they may have kinked and been straightened.  Not good.

 

You would think on a new build the sparky would try and put some of that wiring in the wall and at least make what is on the surface neat.

 

The offcuts of leftover DPM that appear to be used and the general mess just add to the impression of a poor job.

 

I am not a gas fitter so take this with a pinch of salt, but I have never seen yellow MDPE used inside.  Every install I have seen tends to use soldered copper all the way from the boiler to the gas meter.

 

As for that big lintel at the front of the passage. Holy Moses,  that does not look properly supported at the ends, and If BC say that is not enough bearing surface (likely) then that is now going to be one BIG job to put it right if they have built above it yet?

[Pocster]

9 hours ago, PeterW said:

Did the plumber get his qualifications on eBay..???

Didn’t know that was an option ! I’ll look into that .

[PeterW]

51 minutes ago, AmKal said:

Hi, yes the MDPE pipe goes behind the tank around the side of the storage room and then the builder has made a gap for it to come out by the front to be connected to mains.

Yellow MDPE cannot be used internally unless it has adequate protection from fire and impact - any GSR fitter would know this. Looking at the photo though it may be tracpipe as there looks to be a brass fitting on it - if so it is ok but still a poor way to do it.

 

Those steels need sorting and I think they have used one to support the entire side of the house - that is Yeehahh cowboy territory if it’s just resting on plain bricks - also a massive cold bridge too as it looks to be on the outer face.

 

53 minutes ago, AmKal said:

What do you mean by if the tank went?  

 There is a Pressure and Temperature valve on the tank - if that lets go then you get a lot of high pressure hot water to deal with and it’s currently all piped into one small pipe … 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Ok. 
 

Boiler plumbing looks neat and methodical. 
Rest looks like 1st year apprentice did it when pissed. 
 

What gives? Who did what here? 
 

Well spotted on pad stones, should at least have had 2 courses of engineering brick stitched in instead of pads!? Building control??

 

What is all the 22mm(?) pipework above? If heating it should all be insulated, and clipped at least where it’s restring against the block work and steel beam. One can only assume it’s not the finished article.

 

If the insulation boards aren’t fixed down then screening may hold them in place, but if it’s a dry screed and not a liquid. There’s no way in hell I’d pour a liquid screed over that.

 

Theres a list of faux pas here, needs a few things sorted before proceeding / covering over.

 

Did the builders plumber 1st fix and then a gas fitter did boiler / cylinder? Looks like two completely different jobs tbh. 

[SimonD]

3 hours ago, AmKal said:

the MDPE pipe goes behind the tank around the side of the storage room and then the builder has made a gap for it to come out by the front to be connected to mains.

 

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

Looking at the photo though it may be tracpipe as there looks to be a brass fitting on it - if so it is ok but still a poor way to do it.

 

Yes, I think it is CSST rather than mdpe, but worth double checking if it's used as a continuous run from boiler to gas meter or if mdpe is visible somewhere along the run because the yellow coils in the other extension look more like MDPE.

 

As mentioned, the PRV arangement is questionable and the tundish looks undersized for potentially 2 discharges, but not as bad as a recent job where the builders were about to plasterboard over the existing open end prv discharge in the new extension. The owner was surprised when I mentioned it, saying nobody had said anything about it, not even the gas safe engineer who capped off the boiler during the works...

[Nickfromwales]

14 hours ago, AmKal said:

Hi to everyone

Hi 👋. 
Can you post a couple of pics of the cylinder pipework please? Just want to see how the pressure relief / overflow ( D1 & D2 ) / location of tundish are arranged. Can’t really see from those pics. 
 

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

I think they have used one to support the entire side of the house - that is Yeehahh cowboy territory if it’s just resting on plain bricks

Yup. Cant see any bolt heads, so doubt I’d it’s a twin setup with the cavity observed / preserved or you’d see bolt / nut heads from the dowels and spacer rods.

 

Looks like an SE has been involved though, as there’s a bolted T intersection. No builder would devise that afaic. 

[AmKal]

13 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Hi 👋. 
Can you post a couple of pics of the cylinder pipework please? Just want to see how the pressure relief / overflow ( D1 & D2 ) / location of tundish are arranged. Can’t really see from those pics. 
 

[AmKal]

Just now, AmKal said:

 

 

[AmKal]

23 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ok. 
 

Boiler plumbing looks neat and methodical. 
Rest looks like 1st year apprentice did it when pissed. 
 

What gives? Who did what here? 
 

Well spotted on pad stones, should at least have had 2 courses of engineering brick stitched in instead of pads!? Building control??

 

What is all the 22mm(?) pipework above? If heating it should all be insulated, and clipped at least where it’s restring against the block work and steel beam. One can only assume it’s not the finished article.

 

If the insulation boards aren’t fixed down then screening may hold them in place, but if it’s a dry screed and not a liquid. There’s no way in hell I’d pour a liquid screed over that.

 

Theres a list of faux pas here, needs a few things sorted before proceeding / covering over.

 

Did the builders plumber 1st fix and then a gas fitter did boiler / cylinder? Looks like two completely different jobs tbh. 

I believe the same person did everything.  What do you mean by clipped.  I assume you mean insulated meaning the cheap (usually) grey coloured u shape (pipe) insulation?

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, AmKal said:

I believe the same person did everything.  What do you mean by clipped.  I assume you mean insulated meaning the cheap (usually) grey coloured u shape (pipe) insulation?

Clipped = mechanically fixed eg with banding or a pipe clip(s). 
Insulated. Grey insulation is fine, but any heating services need to have this locally to the boiler. Also if the pipework then travels through any unheated voids / attics  / eaves etc. 
 

 

The pipework circled is an absolute and catatonic failure. Needs to all be redone. 
 

Out atm, so I’ll hit this with chapter and verse later today 👍. 
 

Cold main also can’t be in the screed ( thus heated sporadically ) and you can’t have any joints below floor level with it either. Is that cold feed temporary? Any of this temporary?

[Nickfromwales]

It’s a shame there are stupid / careless mistakes. Largely looks like a decent bit of plumbing. Is this a young chap? 
 

The clips for the pipework should all have had spacers behind them to create a gap between the back of the pipe snd the wall, eg so a 13mm wall ( thick ) insulation could be put over all of this heating / primary pipework.

 

A bit more care and effort and attention to detail and this chap would be a decent installer. “So near, yet so far away”  

[Mattg4321]

Why has the sparks used dry lining boxes surface mounted next to the boiler? Is it that hard to go and get a surface pattress or two. 

[AmKal]

9 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Clipped = mechanically fixed eg with banding or a pipe clip(s). 
Insulated. Grey insulation is fine, but any heating services need to have this locally to the boiler. Also if the pipework then travels through any unheated voids / attics  / eaves etc. 
 

 

The pipework circled is an absolute and catatonic failure. Needs to all be redone. 
 

Out atm, so I’ll hit this with chapter and verse later today 👍. 
 

Cold main also can’t be in the screed ( thus heated sporadically ) and you can’t have any joints below floor level with it either. Is that cold feed temporary? Any of this temporary?

Hi, thanks for the info.  I need to relay this to the builder.  What is the reason for the massive failure on the pipe work?

 

All of this is final I believe.  The mains joints are all to go under screed, that's one under the island and one between the boiler and water tank.  I have queried this, but been told it's fine.

 

Does BC have any say in this?  Can they see this prior and tell the builder to redo this?  My feeling is once it's covered it'll all be forgotten.

 

Only dilemma I see is how to get the mains from the island to the garage without it going under the screed to the store room.  

 

I have told the builder about insulating pipes the small pitched roof and simply been told it'll be around celotex so it'll be fine and it's only out in the 'cold' for a short while and will not make much difference.

[AmKal]

6 hours ago, Mattg4321 said:

Why has the sparks used dry lining boxes surface mounted next to the boiler? Is it that hard to go and get a surface pattress or two. 

I'm pulling my hair out on this.  Is this something that's gonna suffice or needs to be changed?  Thank you for your advice

[ProDave]

59 minutes ago, AmKal said:

All of this is final I believe.  The mains joints are all to go under screed, that's one under the island and one between the boiler and water tank.  I have queried this, but been told it's fine.

There is a LOT about that pipework that needs changing before you let the builders anywhere near it with screed.

 

The massive failure on the D2 discharge pipe is ALL those sections of pipe have to run DOWNHILL from their discharge point to the tundish (and then downwards presumably via a trap to that soil pipe) You have at least 2 sections of pipe going up hill.  There are also strict size limits which you don't appear to be abiding by.  Whoever did that does not actually understand the unvented cylinder regs so who do you think is going to sign it off as compliant for building regs?