cheekmonkey Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I have an interesting situation. Historically the farmer who owned our plot erected private poles to carry electric overhead to a barn in what is now our land. these cables are not used any more & are due to be removed. Openreach have hung a line serving our neighbour only on this pole which is within our land & there is no written permission or wayleave in place for it. It is a private pole not owned by SSEN or Openreach. It is the last pole before serving the neighbours house. The pole prior to the one in question IS an Openreach pole only containing this line. It seems clear to me that when completing the installation they took the view that just chuck it on there, no-one will mind as it saves erecting another pole. Maybe they had verbal permission but there is nothing in writing. I wish to have the cable removed as I wish to take down the pole but they are saying they need a £390 survey fee & then chargeable work to put up a new pole (or alternative solution) & that they don't need written permission to use that pole. Does anyone know the legal rights around this? Where I should look or what I should quote to force them to pay for the relocation of the cable off the private pole? I don't think the neighbours will want to pay what could amount to a good couple if thousand to move it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Erect ladder, unclip cable, cut down pole. Wait for the shit to hit the fan. Cost zero. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekmonkey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 Just now, Russell griffiths said: Erect ladder, unclip cable, cut down pole. Wait for the shit to hit the fan. Cost zero. haha i considered.... love a good social hand grenade with the new neighbours.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 “Accidentally” knock pole over with digger or similar, no survey, no fee, no problemo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekmonkey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 i would imagine in a serious point the distance form the last official pole to the house is too far for the cable if i remove it - it's probably 30meters ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 This is not advice but..... It has been reported here before that OR are difficult to deal with and at least one member was told by an OR employee to accidentally pull the wire down, report the fault then the men come and fix it with no fuss. It would be very easy to accidentally damage the phone cable while removing the redundant power cables if you were not very careful. And then the (obviously rotten) pole fell down. That would be when the issue of the (now missing of course) private pole can be discussed. Offer then the chance to run the cable underground around the perimiter of your plot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 48 minutes ago, cheekmonkey said: ... I wish to have the cable removed as I wish to take down the pole but they are saying they need a £390 survey fee & then chargeable work to put up a new pole (or alternative solution) & that they don't need written permission to use that pole. ... Who are ... 'they' ? Is the pole the subject of a covenant, if so what date was the covenant issued, and what does the covenant say? I ask about the date because if the covenant is about to lapse, then your problem could well change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 if your solicitor advises you there is nothing legally stopping you removing the pole then take it down, coil up the ends of the wire hand one to the neighbour and the other to the boundry from whence it comes. If you want to get on with said neighbour a more pragmatic approach could be considered, put it underground where there is zero chance of it being in the way for any future extensions/sheds etc and charge them. personally i'd want it gone asap so not to set an ownership precedent and not have the hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekmonkey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 16 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: Who are ... 'they' ? Is the pole the subject of a covenant, if so what date was the covenant issued, and what does the covenant say? I ask about the date because if the covenant is about to lapse, then your problem could well change. Openreach - &no - no covenant or wayleave exists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said: Erect ladder, unclip cable, cut down pole. Wait for the shit to hit the fan. Cost zero. I can confirm this works! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, cheekmonkey said: I have an interesting situation. Historically the farmer who owned our plot erected private poles to carry electric overhead to a barn in what is now our land. these cables are not used any more & are due to be removed. Openreach have hung a line serving our neighbour only on this pole which is within our land & there is no written permission or wayleave in place for it. It is a private pole not owned by SSEN or Openreach. It is the last pole before serving the neighbours house. The pole prior to the one in question IS an Openreach pole only containing this line. It seems clear to me that when completing the installation they took the view that just chuck it on there, no-one will mind as it saves erecting another pole. Maybe they had verbal permission but there is nothing in writing. I wish to have the cable removed as I wish to take down the pole but they are saying they need a £390 survey fee & then chargeable work to put up a new pole (or alternative solution) & that they don't need written permission to use that pole. Does anyone know the legal rights around this? Where I should look or what I should quote to force them to pay for the relocation of the cable off the private pole? I don't think the neighbours will want to pay what could amount to a good couple if thousand to move it. They are talking nonsense. I have a wire that passed over the corner of my property, neighbour cut it down by accident (I think). OR came out to repair it, nice chap, asked for access, I said fine no problem, I then said, by the way, hypothetically, what would happen if I denied you access and said I didn't want the cable over my property anymore, he said, we would just need to arrange to put in a pole in their garden and bring it over the back. Saying they do not need your permission is utterly untrue and they know that. I think I would go into the field and push the pole over, if I was being kind I would ensure the cable could detach from it as it fell as to maintain a service to your neighbour. Once the pole was over, and the line was dangling across your land, then call OR. Explain the pole was hit (leave pole for inspection to prove not OR asset. When they start to discuss replacement just say no - you have future plans. Option 2 is to inform them you will not be levying a charge on rental of the pole of £1000 a month. Option 3 is to inform them they have 21 days to remove the cable from your pole, as it is being relocated as part of works on your site (give no further details of any replacement poles or positions) - inform them that any delays to works will result in charges being levied on a monthly basis at £10,000. You could have a lot of fun here too. If you played them at their own sort of game. I would be tempted to type up a really official looking letter, Ref: Asset upgrade and replacement - that sort of thing, inform them you, the asset owner must undertake unplanned maintenance to other systems and this pole is being decommissioned on H&S grounds after a structural survey. Edited February 1, 2023 by Carrerahill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 This situation happens a lot round us and there are a lot of accidentally knocked over poles. It’s easy to do on a building site after all. Just be absolutely sure on the facts around pole ownership etc. Also be mindful that this site is open and google searchable… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, cheekmonkey said: haha i considered.... love a good social hand grenade with the new neighbours.... Go and talk to them. I personally have pussyfooted around a boundary issue with a neighbour because I didn’t want to rock the boat, a month ago I was in a raging mood and got on the digger and ripped all the old fence out back to the correct boundary, I waited a few days for the row to happen. Never did, neighbours came out and said “ we wondered when you were going to do that “ two years I’ve been hesitating. If you believe you are 100% in the right then go and have a chat and tell them you intend removing it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekmonkey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 25 minutes ago, Carrerahill said: Option 3 is to inform them they have 21 days to remove the cable from your pole, as it is being relocated as part of works on your site (give no further details of any replacement poles or positions) - inform them that any delays to works will result in charges being levied on a monthly basis at £10,000. @Carrerahill i had read some stuff about this. I think it's 28 day notice. Pasted below from another forum someone had done similar. "we are now demanding that you remove your installed line equipment from our land within 28 days of receipt of this letter, as detailed under Paragraph 21 of The Telecommunications Code, Schedule 2, Paragraph 2 of the Telecommunications Act 1984, as amended by the Communications Act 2003 (The Code)." SSE were brilliant checking the poles weren't theirs or used in any way & came out for free to check it all out - super helpful - Openreach by contrast are useless. Obvs I need to try keep neighbour relations ok but equally i'm already dealing with a water pipe of theirs in our land that shouldn't be here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekmonkey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: Go and talk to them. I personally have pussyfooted around a boundary issue with a neighbour because I didn’t want to rock the boat, a month ago I was in a raging mood and got on the digger and ripped all the old fence out back to the correct boundary, I waited a few days for the row to happen. Never did, neighbours came out and said “ we wondered when you were going to do that “ two years I’ve been hesitating. If you believe you are 100% in the right then go and have a chat and tell them you intend removing it. I havent gone into chapter & verse on original post but we need to put in a new entrance as part of planning, they prefer the entrance further away from them which means pole is in the way, but moving it using official routes as per my OP seems pricey & I think they are expecting us to cover the costs which we wont be if its £390 just to get a cost for something that technically shouldn't be there. (they don't know that bit yet that's from my reserach) We have been talking to them but trying to get the correct info before I go back to them with some options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekmonkey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 24 minutes ago, Kelvin said: This situation happens a lot round us and there are a lot of accidentally knocked over poles. It’s easy to do on a building site after all. Just be absolutely sure on the facts around pole ownership etc. Also be mindful that this site is open and google searchable… openreach rely on google streetmapping (i uncovered this on the call with them) and as it's an unadopted lane google dont come down so they have no visuals of any poles to know what's theirs! hilarious. no records at all from how she described it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, cheekmonkey said: openreach rely on google streetmapping (i uncovered this on the call with them) and as it's an unadopted lane google dont come down so they have no visuals of any poles to know what's theirs! hilarious. no records at all from how she described it. To be clear. The Buildhub forum is open and google searchable so anyone could find this discussion. It’s a tiny risk but just be aware of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Walker Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) Were the telephone cables there when you purchased the plot? if the answer is yes, then you must pay for them to be moved. Edited February 1, 2023 by Adrian Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekmonkey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 15 minutes ago, Adrian Walker said: Were the telephone cables there when you purchased the plot? if the answer is yes, then you must pay for them to be moved. with no permission to be there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, cheekmonkey said: with no permission to be there? Your problem is that they have been there a long time and you purchased the plot knowing they were there etc. It’s something that should have come up during conveyancing. You could have made it a condition of sale that he dealt with the cable Edited February 1, 2023 by Kelvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekmonkey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, Kelvin said: Your problem is that they have been there a long time and you purchased the plot knowing they were there etc. It’s something that should have come up during conveyancing. You could have made it a condition of sale that he dealt with the cable i was aware there were poles but they were privately installed for historic electric & therefore owned by me & why i'm removing them & the old cables. there is only 1 pole that seems to have been hijacked by BT without permission - an easy one to miss. it's not their pole & there's no contract or any kind in place for them to use it so it would not have come up in conveyancing surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) Sure but it’s all part of your due diligence when buying the land. You spot the random extra cable ask farmer what it is he tells you it’s a BT cable you find out history and advise your solicitor about it and put it into the offer. It’s what I did anyway. It’s easy to miss something of course. I missed a random pipe that enters our field at the burn because it was overgrown with gorse. From the deeds (when I eventually got them) it described it as a source of spring water for the drovers to use for their animals that I needed to maintain. Obviously no requirement for me to do that as we’d bought the plot and it’s use changed so irrelevant. However once I cleared the gorse I could see it was now an overflow pipe for the drain on the road. I’ve since found out that the farmer diverted the course of this spring water many years ago so it doesn’t come anywhere near us now. Edited February 1, 2023 by Kelvin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Why don’t you chuck a new pole up right smack on the boundary, uncap their cable and clip it to the new pole. Then rip the old one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekmonkey Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: Why don’t you chuck a new pole up right smack on the boundary, uncap their cable and clip it to the new pole. Then rip the old one out. @Russell griffiths yes i had wondered about this - might need someone to assist with that i.e. someone with a machine that could lift the pole & a means to bore the hole for it. i'm sure the cost would be considerably less than involving openreah & it probably one of my preferred routes. i need to measure the span from the official pole to their house as from research i see online something around 65 or 68m is the max span (this has been increased to 85 but not sure why or what regs are around that. i can then take the options to next door to either move the post at their cost or a split cost - or simply remove it & let the cable hang a bit further (as long as it doesnt then give me height issues) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Walker Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, cheekmonkey said: with no permission to be there? If the farmer benefited from the telephone cable then they don't need permission. Due diligence wasn't done, just pay to get it moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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