2 years later and planning is approved - my long battle

[miike]

Just wanted to tell about my long and hard fought planning battle to finally get approval for anyone else in a similar situation who's losing hope. 

 

I bought a plot of land in a development area of a town with FPP for a traditional detached house back in 2020. I then worked with an architect to create a new highly contemporary design that better suited my needs and preferences and submitted it to the LPA, optimistically expecting a decision in 8 weeks time. 

 

There were no objections from the local town council nor any technical objections. The plot isn't in a conservation area, AONB or in any other special zone which might cause planning issues. Myself and my planning consultant expected this to be a quick and simple application. 

 

My planning consultant had an initial call with the case officer who said they didn't see any issues. All seemed good so far. Then a month later, after chasing the CO again, they came back and said that they had decided that there was no way they could give us approval for the house as it was too out of character for the area and that there was nothing we could do, revise or prove to change their mind. 

 

We argued that it wasn't out of character for the area, and that the same case officer had actually themselves approved several applications for contemporary houses nearby and written in their reports that there was no overriding architectural style in the area. They told us to argue it at appeal. 

 

At this point, I contacted the head of the LPA who seemed confused why the CO was refusing to allow us to even submit any additional evidence to show that it wasn't out of character. The CO reluctantly relented and said we now could submit additional evidence. I went all out on this - I had drone surveys mapping the whole area showing the house would be completely screened from the road, additional consultants came in to conduct character reviews of the local area, numerous additional architectural drawings etc.  

 

Upon informing the CO that all additional evidence would be submitted the following week, they replied and said they'd changed their mind about allowing additional evidence and were going to just reject the app. I contacted the head of the LPA about this to complain a few days later, who replied saying that the CO had actually just quit their job, we would be assigned a new CO and they'd be happy to review any additional evidence. 

 

A friendly local councillor passed on information about why we were having so much difficulty with this app - a local married councillor duo, who had a reputation for 'shouting the loudest' to get their own way, were doing everything they could to get the LPA to reject my app. At the town planning committee when my app was discussed, they had said they wanted to prevent all contemporary houses from being built and were apparently outraged that the committee sided with me and voted to raise no objection. This was their revenge. 

 

The new CO was far more amenable - he wanted to work with us to tweak the design to something he felt he could then approve. We spent two months going back and forth with designs and changes until he finally said that he was satisfied and would write a report giving us approval. This was about 7 months after the application was originally verified. 

 

I was obviously very pleased with this outcome and patiently awaited their report. A month passed before we followed up with them to see how they were getting on. Imagine our surprise when we were informed that this CO had also quit two days ago and we'd now get a third CO. 

 

The third CO looked at the original plans and the redesigns and said he much preferred the original plans to the redesigned version and would be happy to approve it with some minor tweaks, which we happily obliged. He then began writing his report recommending approval, and we waited and hoped this one wouldn't quit too. 

 

A month passed and we received confirmation his report was ready and just needed to be signed off by their line manager. A few weeks later and we find out there's a problem - the line manager refuses to sign off on it and tells him to re-write it as a refusal, stating 'overlooking' as the reason. This particular line manager is known to be friendly with married councillor duo. We obviously push back very hard on this as we have 3d drone surveys showing that overlooking is not possible, and that there is substantial distance between neighbouring properties which are well above guidelines for new builds anyway. I once again get the head of LPA involved and the line manager agrees to at least to do a site visit with the CO. At the site, the line manager begrudgingly admits defeat and allows the recommendation for approval. It's a little over a year since the app was verified.

 

The journey's not over yet though, as it turned out that a ward councillor had called in the app to committee when it was first submitted but had gone unnoticed due to the multiple CO changes. I felt reasonably confident going into the committee though - we had an officers recommendation for approval, there was no 5 year housing supply in the area so development was favoured, and I wrote a very strong speech putting forward my case. 

 

At the committee I gave my speech and then listened the councillors debate. To my horror, this was when I found out that councillors don't actually bother to review planning documents for applications they're voting on - multiple councillors said they couldn't support it because they didn't know what materials would be used (despite all materials been listed numerous times in the docs) and one even saying they couldn't support it based on architectural drawings as they wanted illustrations (but there were multiple CGIs submitted in the docs). In the end, 4 councillors voted to refuse the app (2 were the married couple duo who said nothing during the debate and the other said they 'didn't like it' as their reason) but that was enough to overturn the CO recommendation as so many others abstained. 

 

Not willing to give up after how much work had already gone into this, I had my planning consultant start work on the appeal. We submitted a 50 page rebuttal of the committees one reason for refusal (contemporary design would be out of character). The LPA barely even tried to justify the committee decision, they submitted a 3 paragraph argument, seemingly acknowledging that they were fighting a lost cause. 

 

6 months later and just in time for Christmas, we received the Inspectors report that the appeal was allowed. Almost exactly two years to the date after the app was first verified. The two year battle cost me ~£30k and building costs have gone up ~£300k during that time (the GDV has gone up by more than this but it is still painful). It was worth it in the end though to finally be able to build the house I want to build. Just wanted to tell my story for anyone else who's in a similar struggle at the moment and advise you to just keep pushing forward. 

[Kelvin]

Bloody hell. Congratulations on achieving this but what a waste of time and money. The finished house will be all the more enjoyable for winning this battle. 

[IanR]

Well done for staying the distance.

 

Hopefully you have applied for costs (of the Appeal)

[Chanmenie]

Bloody hell that makes my experience a walk in the park, well done for seeing it through.

 

It does make my blood boil when you hear how much sway individuals can have on these applications.  Too much power given to the wrong people in my view.    

[ProDave]

What a fight, glad you did not give up.

 

So what has been approved by the appeal?  your original plan, or one of the modified plans in your attempt to get approval?

 

I think the lesson here is in a situation like this, don't mess about trying to please the unpleasable, let them fail it and go to appeal much sooner.

[nod]

Well done 

 🍾 

[jack]

1 hour ago, miike said:

Not willing to give up after how much work had already gone into this, I had my planning consultant start work on the appeal. We submitted a 50 page rebuttal of the committees one reason for refusal (contemporary design would be out of character). The LPA barely even tried to justify the committee decision, they submitted a 3 paragraph argument, seemingly acknowledging that they were fighting a lost cause.

 

This makes my blood boil, but well done you for sticking it out.

 

There ought to be an independent complaints body with the power to remove the right of councillors to be on a planning committee if they're shown not to follow the rules.

[miike]

4 minutes ago, jack said:

 

This makes my blood boil, but well done you for sticking it out.

 

There ought to be an independent complaints body with the power to remove the right of councillors to be on a planning committee if they're shown not to follow the rules.

 

I did raise a complaint about the councillor duo to the council, they informed me that even if they found and agreed that they had violated rules or the code of ethics, it would then have to be voted on at the standards committee before any action could be taken. Guess who chairs that committee...

[miike]

33 minutes ago, ProDave said:

What a fight, glad you did not give up.

 

So what has been approved by the appeal?  your original plan, or one of the modified plans in your attempt to get approval?

 

I think the lesson here is in a situation like this, don't mess about trying to please the unpleasable, let them fail it and go to appeal much sooner.

 

It's the final modified plans, which is essentially 95% of the original and I'm still happy with. 

 

In hindsight, I should have appealed for non-determination after 8 weeks. I actually had a far more traditional design submitted at the same time as the appeal was submitted as a backup option - we received pre-app advice saying they had no issues with the new design and would approve it. Can't believe the appeal was actually decided quicker, and I've been advised to expect at least another 3 months before the LPA issues their approval for the new app, not that it makes much difference now. 

[jack]

11 minutes ago, miike said:

Guess who chairs that committee...

 

Someone who is required to recuse themselves from any decision involving them?

[saveasteading]

11 minutes ago, miike said:

Guess who chairs that committee...

He would not have chaired that case.

Counciilors are not trained, can't usually read drawings and seldom study applications. Planning officers can have a hard time with them.

It's still better than leaving all decisions to planners, especially non local ones.

 

Appeals seem to mostly go through,  I think due to low-paid, uninterested, distant  consultants doing them these days.

 

Show us elevations? Id like to see what they regarded as too modern. Many councils are stressing that "exemplary modern" is encouraged.

 

Well done. Now we anticipate a new range of questions. 

[miike]

1 minute ago, jack said:

 

Someone who is required to recuse themselves from any decision involving them?

Turns out its entirely the councillors own decision about whether they are required to recuse themselves or if can be objective about a decision. If you disagree with their decision then it goes to the council who then refer it to the standards committee..

I actually brought up the comments they'd made at the planning committee and said they were pre-determined and should abstain from the vote, their response was just to laugh and smirk at me. 

[miike]

5 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

He would not have chaired that case.

Counciilors are not trained, can't usually read drawings and seldom study applications. Planning officers can have a hard time with them.

It's still better than leaving all decisions to planners, especially non local ones.

 

Appeals seem to mostly go through,  I think due to low-paid, uninterested, distant  consultants doing them these days.

 

Show us elevations? Id like to see what they regarded as too modern. Many councils are stressing that "exemplary modern" is encouraged.

 

Well done. Now we anticipate a new range of questions. 

In the LPA case to the appeal Inspector, they actually said it was a good design and they'd be happy to approve it in a different location, just not in this one. But then failed to provide a reason why it shouldn't be approved in this location. 

 

I feel a bit sorry for the LPA when they've written a 20 page report throughly analysing an application and why it meets local planning guidelines and should be approved, for the committee to then overrule them and then the LPA has to justify at appeal why actually their original report was wrong. 

[saveasteading]

Planners are thick skinned. I have listened to the officer explain why an application should be permitted, then after the decision to reject (my stunning speech, plus councilor backing) happily read out the decision as if it was his own.

They do despair though of councillors rabitting on without having done any prep.

 

[ToughButterCup]

3 hours ago, miike said:

....

6 months later and just in time for Christmas, we received the Inspectors report that the appeal was allowed. Almost exactly two years to the date after the app was first verified. The two year battle cost me ~£30k and building costs have gone up ~£300k during that time (the GDV has gone up by more than this but it is still painful). It was worth it in the end though to finally be able to build the house I want to build.

...

 

You will be applying  for your costs won't you ? Just checking😐

The £30K cost of the Application is obscene - it would have stopped many people in their tracks - it would have stopped ours. Even half that sum would mean the death of many a building project.

 

You have been shown to be persistent - an attribute that all self-builders need. Well done.

Quote

 (2 were the married couple duo who said nothing during the debate and the other said they 'didn't like it' as their reason)

 

There's the core of the matter. Lack of proper engagement, sloppy Couldn'tGiveaFookish amateurism writ large. Backed-up by corrupted power structures  (Committee Chair)

 

Your turn. Pass 'Go' Collect £200. Here's a new set of dice.

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by ToughButterCup

[miike]

16 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

You will be applying  for your costs won't you ? Just checking😐

The £30K cost of the Application is obscene - it would have stopped many people in their tracks - it would have stopped ours. Even half that sum would mean the death of many a building project.

 

You have been shown to be persistent - an attribute that all self-builders need. Well done.

 

There's the core of the matter. Lack of proper engagement, sloppy Couldn'tGiveaFookish amateurism writ large. Backed-up by corrupted power structures  (Committee Chair)

 

Your turn. Pass 'Go' Collect £200. Here's a new set of dice.

 

 

 

 

I did apply for costs and was unfortunately denied - the reasoning being that design is an inherently subjective matter, so not liking a style and refusing it for that reason would not be considered so unreasonable as to justify an award of costs. Most of the money was spent prior to the appeal anyway and you can only get back your costs that were specifically for the appeal (~£4k from what I remember) so not the end of the world. 

 

The first CO repeatedly asked if we wanted to withdraw the application, seemingly hoping they wouldn't actual have to write a refusal that we could then appeal. When I found out about the councillors putting pressure on the LPA to refuse the app, I treated it like an all out battle and threw everything at it - every comment/criticism/concern they had, I responded with reports/surveys/drawings until everything was so comprehensively covered that it was irrefutable that the house complied with all planning rules. I'm fully aware that a lot of people would have caved at the start when the CO was saying to withdraw it or they'll refuse it - it's unfortunate that people can be bullied this way. That's why I wrote this up, for anyone else who's sure their app complies with the planning rules but is getting push back at their LPA, to not give up. 

[Gone West]

Congratulations and well done for not giving up.

[ToughButterCup]

3 hours ago, miike said:

... That's why I wrote this up, for anyone else who's sure their app complies with the planning rules but is getting push back at their LPA, to not give up. 

 

Thanks very much indeed. All credit to you for Just Bloody Doing It. 

 

You hint at an unhappy Planning Department local to where you want to build:.  Makes you wonder what the subtexts are / were. And which  bits of micropolitics played themselves out in your case,  thats what golf-courses are for though isn't it.

 

 

[Kelvin]

Sounds like envy on behalf of the two married councillors 

[IronMike]

Congrats fella, I had a similar battle. Got approval on my fifth application. 

 

Where are you based? 

[miike]

2 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Thanks very much indeed. All credit to you for Just Bloody Doing It. 

 

You hint at an unhappy Planning Department local to where you want to build:.  Makes you wonder what the subtexts are / were. And which  bits of micropolitics played themselves out in your case,  thats what golf-courses are for though isn't it.

 

 

 

A case officer ended up crying at a recent committee meeting after they overturned their approval and the head of the LPA has now quit as well. So it does seem that all is not sunshine and smiles in the planning department.

 

I only had to deal with these councillors for one application and it was an absolute nightmare, I can't imagine having to deal with them on a daily basis as part of my full time job. I'd be out the door too. 

[Temp]

Well done @miike I had a similarly frustrating time, also partly due to staff quitting. Sometimes you just wish you could bang their heads against a wall or at least get compensation for them messing you about.

 

Sometime after we finished building our house a planning officer came to our site for unrelated reasons. He complimented us on the house, which his department previously rejected for over a year, and said he thought "we" (meaning the planning department!) "had done a good job there". I had to bite my lip. 

 

 

[Gone West]

19 hours ago, miike said:

At the committee I gave my speech and then listened the councillors debate. To my horror, this was when I found out that councillors don't actually bother to review planning documents for applications they're voting on - multiple councillors said they couldn't support it because they didn't know what materials would be used (despite all materials been listed numerous times in the docs) and one even saying they couldn't support it based on architectural drawings as they wanted illustrations (but there were multiple CGIs submitted in the docs). In the end, 4 councillors voted to refuse the app (2 were the married couple duo who said nothing during the debate and the other said they 'didn't like it' as their reason) but that was enough to overturn the CO recommendation as so many others abstained. 

This process is probably handled differently in every LPA area. I had a long drawn out planning application consisting of three applications, an appeal and a Planning Committee hearing. Before my application a friend had a similar problem with LPA refusals and had gone to Planning Committee and succeeded. She advised me to hand deliver, to all Planning Committee members, a package of all the planning documents and rebutals of refusal reasons along with the usual apologies for taking their time over the matter. At the committee meeting I gave my speech and had a unanimous application approval. The head of Planning and Development was furious and asked the Committee if they were going to override his rejection and they simply said there was no reason for refusal. I think the inconsistancy with planning applications around England is a real problem. I was even told, by the Head of Planning, that two Planning Officers in the same office can come up with two different results for an application as it's subjective. I think the planning rules are deliberately ambiguous and too open to interpretation. Before my application, which was in 2009, I had always thought planning should automatically be allowed, unless there was good reason for refusal.

[ProDave]

Re thinking this, if a planning application is refused they have to state what planning policy it fails.

 

In this case it did not appear to fail any planning policy, the case officer had approved it, but then some random councillor voted it out at committee 

 

So the reason for refusal was in fact "a councillor, not trained in and familiar with current planning rules refused it for no good reason other than he did not like it"

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Gone West said:

.... I think the planning rules are deliberately ambiguous and too open to interpretation....

 

Exactly right. Thats why the micropolitics of each planning application matters. It matters more than the need to focus on the content of the message in each conversation rather than by whom or how that message is delivered.

 

An exercise in attention to detail, and self control.