daiking Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I recall a thread earlier in the year about the use of window films to prevent damage to furnishings from the sun and I thought it would be a good idea. How #&@! much? About £15/sq m on a window basis. Ouch. I don't suppose there are alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Other than curtains and blinds I don't think so. Flat glass film is really not hard to fit* so you could consider DIY. It might even pay to go on a course for a day. EDIT: *Provided you don't have huge expanses of glass. Edited June 3, 2016 by Barney12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I'm seriously considering this for our front gable, which provides a bit too much solar gain. I've been looking at the heat reflective film, the light grey one that still lets through a fair bit of light. I'm not sure how good this would be at preventing sun damage to furnishings, though, as I believe that's mainly caused by UV. Modern glazing seems pretty good at keeping out UV, from what I can see, but older stuff may not be. I'm still at the thinking about it stage, but have read the instructions on DIY installation and it doesn't look that difficult to do. I just hope that it's easier and neater than the DIY car window tint film. I remember using that very many years ago and it was a complete pain to apply neatly and even harder to remove after I'd decided it looked really naff......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_1980 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 We have been looking at the 3M prestiege series in case we need it for our Glazed areas. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Window_Film/Solutions/Markets-Products/Residential/Sun_Control_Window_Films/Prestige_Series/ As we need blinds we are going for the Duette Blackout Blinds first with the window flim as a backup as they are bedrooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) 40 minutes ago, JSHarris said: I'm still at the thinking about it stage, but have read the instructions on DIY installation and it doesn't look that difficult to do. I just hope that it's easier and neater than the DIY car window tint film. I remember using that very many years ago and it was a complete pain to apply neatly and even harder to remove after I'd decided it looked really naff......... Cars can be tricky, lots of curves and often not flat glass. Architectural flat glass is much simpler. Modern films are applied onto wet glass so positioning and moving is relatively simple. SUPER clean glass is a must as trapped dust/dirt looks rubbish. Probably the hardest part is trimming is neatly to the frame and/or gasket. But, with care a steady hand a super sharp scalpel, far from impossible. Oh and many commercial installers aren't that good either! My Defender was tinted by the dealer THREE times and in the end they gave me my money back. Shocking. The favorite 'pro bodge' is to use a sharpie marker to hide a poor trimming! Edited June 3, 2016 by Barney12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 That's good to know. In our case the trimming would be dead easy, as the Munster Ecoclad Plus glazing has a push-fit rubber trim fitted between the glass and the timber trim on the inside. If that is pulled out the film could be trimmed at the edge and then the trimmed edge hidden under the trim when it's re-fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I've done 3 doors recently with the stuff from Amazon It is quite easy to do if you follow the instructions, get a decent squeegee and use plenty of soapy water....! Its difficult to comprehend but you spray the soapy water on the adhesive side of the film too ...! Makes it move a bit and then you squeegee out the air and the water and it sticks... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readiescards Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 On 03/06/2016 at 11:52, JSHarris said: I just hope that it's easier and neater than the DIY car window tint film. I remember using that very many years ago and it was a complete pain to apply neatly and even harder to remove after I'd decided it looked really naff......... @JSHarris Sorry, I have to know what car you cruised around with blacked out windows... #ReputationAtStake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 It was a black 1293cc very tweaked Mini Cooper S, 1965 IIRC, although I didn't acquire it until around 1974. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 I had a quote a couple of months ago to have Vista 80X installed on my glazed 3/4 gable. It's around 4m high in the centre and I didn't fancy doing it myself and cocking it up. It's quite expensive but the last time I used film like that was back in the seventies on car side screens and it didn't look that good then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Our front gable is similar, taller at around 5m high in the centre, but perhaps narrower at around 2m wide. Looking at the specs these films seem to claim around 50% or so reduction in solar gain, and that would be very worthwhile for us. Right now it's 29 deg in the shade on the North side of the house, inside it's 23.3 deg C, but both the cooling systems have been running since mid-morning. The cooling doesn't cost anything, as with both running and my car charging we were still exporting around 2 kW or so, but it would be better to reduce the solar gain at source, rather than have to deal with it by cooling the house down so aggressively. I don't suppose you'd share the price, Peter? By PM if you don't want to go public with it. Looking at the spec, the Vista 80X seems interesting as it's an external, rather than internal, film. I can see that having a distinct advantage in terms of reducing solar gain, as it presumably allows the internal glazing to stay cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Surely the problem with fitting such film to reduce solar gain is that you reduce it all year round, thus losing much of the potential benefit during cooler periods of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 You do, but frankly I don't think we need solar gain in winter, or at least not very much. We have a situation where the house cooling systems come on in February/March and then run on and off on pretty regularly through to December, whereas the heating system comes on for maybe an hour or so every two or three days between December and February/March, sometimes less often than that. Almost all the cooling power comes from the PV, but on a day like today, even with the floor cooling on and the air cooling on the house was still increasing in temperature through the day, albeit fairly slowly. When I left around an hour or so ago the floor temperature was still 19.9 deg C, yet water at 12 deg C had been pumped around it for around 8 hours or so. All that was really doing was taking away some of the heat from the solar gain, mostly from the big glazed gable, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 This is an interesting comparison to my situation Jeremy. Same construction method by the same builder. Our house doesn't have the southerly gain that yours has, and the land rises steeply to the east so there's some shelter from the very early morning potential solar gain. I run the floor pump constantly during the daylight hours to keep the slab temp evened out. By late morning today it was just starting to get a little too warm in the kitchen, which is at the south east end of the house so had been receiving a lot of direct sun. By the time the sun went past noon, the temperature had stabilised and has since stayed perfectly comfortable all day now. At this rate I suspect it'll take at least a couple more warm sunny days for the slab to heat up enough that the house becomes uncomfortable. The ASHP hasn't yet been set up to cool, but I'll need to take a look at that in the near future. (As an aside, the ASHP hasn't actually come on at all for at least a couple of weeks - the PV means the tank remains too hot overnight for the ASHP to come on during its usual DHW runtime between 4 and 6 am, and I turned off the slab heating once it was clear it wouldn't be needed any more.) We have the opposite issue to you - we appear to need a lot more active heating during the winter, and over a longer season. This just goes to show how critical position, orientation and size of windows is to how these houses perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 It definitely does point out the much greater range of heating/cooling solutions that are likely with a well-insulated, well-sealed house in different locations. I have found that the house very slowly increases in temperature during a long warm spell. I have both the cooling systems set to kick in at a room temperature of 22.5 deg C, which may be a bit on the high side, as by the time the house is at 22.5 deg C it may well be well up the heating curve. Perhaps I need to look at setting back the floor cooling by a degree, to try and pre-empt the increase in temperature. Part of the issue is the long thermal time constant. Because it takes a day or two for the temperature inside the house to respond to either hot of cold external temperature changes, it may well pay to look again at some form of predictive climate sensing control. I discarded this option early on, but if I can't get a solution using passive cooling methods, then I may give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIH Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 I'm thinking of using something like this: http://www.newblinds.co.uk/content/solar_film_roller_blinds/ They are used extensively for bridge windows on vessels. At the moment the scaffolding is doing a good job deflecting my solar gain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 The gable faces WNW and overheating is only a problem for 2 to 3 months in the middle of summer. The film won't affect solar gain in the winter because the sun doen't shine on the gable in winter. I wouldn't be happy about using an internal film on triple glazing because of heat buildup within the glazing.. The Vista 80X 'Total Solar Energy Rejected' figure for single glazing is 45% and for double glazing is 55%. I asked for a value for triple glazing but it wasn't available. The total cost is £1638 which I think is expensive but then I havn't forked out for any conventional heating or cooling in the house so it's acceptable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Thanks for that, Peter, you're right, the price is a bit eye-watering! I think you're spot on about the potential risk of over-heating the internal glass with the film on the inside of a triple glazed unit, I wonder what the other film makers have to say about this? It'll depend to some extent on the nature of the glass and the coating, but our glass is optimised to reflect long wavelength IR back in to the house, which means that an internal film may well just act to heat up the internal glazing, rather than reflect a lot of IR out of the house altogether. We have been wondering about adding a glazed canopy over the lower half of the glazing in that gable (our front door, also fully glazed, is in the middle of the lower part). The idea of that would be two-fold, it would significantly reduce long wavelength IR from getting to the lower half of the glazing and it would provide some needed rain protection over the front door. The snag so far has been finding a supplier who makes a glass canopy 2m wide with no central support, just supports either side (we can't have a central support because of the glazing above). I wonder if there is a DIY option with that external film? That may well bring the price down a fair bit, as I can't believe that the film itself is that expensive. I might well consider DIY application to the three panes of glass in the top of the gable, and that, combined with a canopy over the lower section may well be enough to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Sorry for not getting back sooner. I have several DIY film suppliers listed on my PC, which is causing problems at the moment. Off the top of my head prsolarwindowfilm is one. I'll put links up to the others later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Thanks Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Here's a list of suppliers I looked at. I'm sure there are other DIY suppliers but I was looking for supply and install. http://www.windowfilm.co.uk/residential/heat http://www.solartekfilms.co.uk/solargard-window-film/ http://www.solargard.com/uk/product/sentinel/ http://www.purlsol.com/exterior-reflective-film/srf-60x-medium-exterior-reflective-film/ http://www.prsolarwindowfilm.co.uk/solar-window-film http://www.sun-x.co.uk/workplace/solar-window-film 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 we use that uv film on our Bridge and it works surprisingly effectively. So I am planning to use the same film on build with an electric roller blind. Anybody any dealings with midsar electric blinds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Sorry, no experience with the blinds, but we have a local chap coming out tomorrow to stick a couple of samples on the outside of the gable glazing to see how it looks. Talking to him on the phone he clearly knew his stuff and wasn't at all phased by the triple glazing, saying that they would do a full heat build up analysis as a part of the design process, needed for the warranty, from the film manufacturer. What I have sort of pinned down is that there aren't many manufacturers, but there are a lot of trade names, so some detective work is needed to find out which film any particular supplier is using. We will choose between two or three different films from the samples, as we're looking for both privacy and the ability to reflect a lot of heat away, but without the glazing looking like a mirror. The chap I've got coming out tomorrow is from these people: http://www.gpwindowfilms.com/solar-window-film.html and they also do solar blinds, so I can ask about them when he's here if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I looked at SolarGard Sentinel Plus SX 80 but as far as I could see it was less effective. I think it depends on whether you want the film to be as clear as possible or whether you're happy for it to look reflective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 The chap's just left, having stuck a couple of samples on to the glass so we (well, more like SWMBO) can choose which we prefer. I have a sample of the Sentinel Plus Stainless Steel, which wasn't one I was interested in as in photos it looks very reflective. However, when stuck on the glass it looks less reflective than the plain glass; the advertising images are very deceptive. I also have a sample of 3M Prestige on the other side, a non-reflective, non-metallised, multi layer film than lets more light through than the Sentinel Plus. TBH, from inside the house you can barely notice either film visually, even though they are just squares stuck on to the windows. The Sentinel Plus is slightly darker looking, whereas the 3M Prestige is a bit lighter, and in terms of privacy the Sentinel Plus is definitely better. It's very hard to photograph this stuff, but here's a photo taken a short time ago from outside. The Sentinel Plus is on the left, the Prestige on the right: And here's a view from inside, with the Sentinel Plus on the right (please excuse the dirty windows - the whole house needs a damned good clean!): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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