Weebles

Building Regs / Construction drawings - what is needed?

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Just signed on the dotted line with MBC for our timber frame and slab.  My question is on building regs.

What exactly is needed for building regs?  I believe MBC / their SE provide calcs for the structure / slab which covers off that bit.

Does anyone have a list of what else is needed?  

What other drawings might be required (even if not for building regs)?  And are these needed at the start?  Or can we sort those as we go along.  Our architect is trying to scare us......

 

 

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Site layout

Drainage plan

Elevations

Floorplans

Section

Wall/Floor section 

 

That is the minimum you seem to need for my BCO. 

 

You may want :

Service plans

Window schedules

Door schedules

wall/floor junction detail

any complex details

 

 

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For a timber frame sitting on a passive slab you will need the structural drawings and signs offs for both as well.

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Part L of the regs:

You'll need to get the 'U' values from MBC for each part of your construction e.g. Walls, roof, slab as well for the windows and doors. You should also get a statement from them regarding accredited details for avoidance of thermal bridging. These will be needed for your EPC as well as for Building Control.

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11 hours ago, Weebles said:

 

What other drawings might be required (even if not for building regs)?  And are these needed at the start?  Or can we sort those as we go along.  Our architect is trying to scare us......

 

 

@Weebles

In practice MBC will be able to provide 90% of the information that is typically needed for Building Regs approval.

What extra information is needed will depend on your individual approved inspector.

Assuming that you are in England or Wales its always best to submit a full plans application rather than a building notice. The benefit of this is that you should then be able to get your approved inspector to give you a written list of the items of info they will need before granting approval.

Some inspectors will hardly need any extra info apart from the structural info (that you'll get anyway from MBC) and the SAP (Part L) info.

Its important however to get them to 'sign off' on your drawings before you start work on site. This will help avoid any future issues with things such as compliance with Part M.

Edited by Ian

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Thanks everyone. Will get reading and pulling information together and will likely be back for more help at some point.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ed_MK said:

 

Thanks J

that blog is nothing short of AWESOME

 

 

Thanks, sorry for the broken link about the foundations, I hadn't realised the link was broken until just now, but I've now fixed it so it should be OK (it was the link to the Kore passive slab info that had somehow got corrupted - I can't say I'm an expert at driving Wordpress or creating a website, so sometimes things just seem to happen for no reason that I can see!).

 

I think it's possible to hot link into attachments in that blog, this is just a test to see if that's possible with the link to the location of that Kore info: http://www.mayfly.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Kore-Insulated-Foundations-Report.pdf

 

Edited to add:  Yes, that seems to work, and I'll try and remember it, as there is loads of stuff stored away in that blog website, quite a lot of which isn't actually attached to any post; I just use the web space as a convenient file share source for anything that isn't sensitive.

Edited by JSHarris

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Posted (edited)

+1 to all the contributions so far. 

 

I have built  a MBC timberframe house and used an independent BCO. I started off by sending a full MBC design package, including SE Caculations and foundation design, asking to be advised of anything else that was required for BC approval. I received the following " Do you have a building regs specification as I need to do a plan check and comment on compliance with the building regs ..."

 

I then responded "Not sure what you require for the "building regs specification" - can you please clarify for me? I have sent you a calculation and drawings package for the timberframe and the foundation. What else do you require and I will arrange to provide it? "

 

He responded " with all jobs we normally see a detailedspecification to cover aspects such as fire/ means of escape. ventilation,staircase design  etc  the plans provided so far cover the structural aspectsand thermal requirements " 

 

I asked "Do you an good example that I could use to ensure that I cover everything and i will then quickly develop a detailed specification specific to Eastcroft?" I never received a response.

 

So I did  some research online, including Websites such as http://www.buildingregs4plans.co.uk and looked at what @JSHarris had done and what @Bitpipe   was experiencing with questions from his BCO at the same time . I then proceeded to develop my Building Regulation Specification and sent it to the BCO with the following note " I have done some research, looking at similar documents, and produced the attached Building Regulation Specification for your review and comment. I have endeavoured to detail all the relevant information but if you require more detail the please advise and I will revise to meet your requirements It refers to various drawings, calculations and related documents (which I attach for your reference and convenience, as I have already submitted most of these documents to you before) and have included them all in one zipped folder for your convenience "

 

I never received any nore questions or comments, though he did visit site on a few occaasions and I kept him updated with regular emails and photos. I requested approval of a couple of areas - proposals for fire/smoke detectors installtion and forjuliet balcony fixings - to which he responded and gave approval.

 

I attach my Building Regulation Specification without the attachments. On reflection, it is not  particulalrly good document and I could have included a lot more detail/definition of various systems.  I thought that it would require updating with specific information, as the BCO asked questions but the questions never came and I never updated it... On the positive side, it did force me to read and understand all the Buiding Regulations as they applied to my build.

Building Regulation Specification for new build house.pdf

Edited by HerbJ
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Posted (edited)

To be honest Herb that is VERY useful for me, i shan't outright plagiarise it ...but I will use it to make the structure for my own ....thanks a LOT.

although if it is at all possible, i would like to see the attachments (minus any confidentiality stuff) ...I am doing my own drawings for drainage 

and internal plumbing etc (using CAD, but I am very new and slow)..so a guide as to what they expect would be a definite steer for me !

 

you can pm them to me 

 

I read that you (like others) have an INDEPENDANT BCO.

Is there an advantage? ...Isn't that what I am paying the council £800 for? (well soon to pay anyway)

 

Thanks again

Edited by Ed_MK

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18 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Plagiarise plus donation to BH?

 

No problems Ferdy!

I think you guys do a 24 Carat job here ..

 

In fact with all the building related traffic you get I am surprised you have not succumbed to some SUBTLE

banner advertising ? ...nothing garish, but i reckon it would pay for the hosting and all the other bits

 

...and still have some left over for the bubbly at the  Forum Management Group HQ party!

..you got to have bubbly at the shareholders :)

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Ed_MK said:

 

No problems Ferdy!

I think you guys do a 24 Carat job here ..

 

In fact with all the building related traffic you get I am surprised you have not succumbed to some SUBTLE

banner advertising ? ...nothing garish, but i reckon it would pay for the hosting and all the other bits

 

...and still have some left over for the bubbly at the  Forum Management Group HQ party!

..you got to have bubbly at the shareholders :)

 

 

There is aiui no banner ads because there is no need at present.

 

 

Edited by Ferdinand

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All good info, our BC was from an independent firm and was very approachable. I  first sent him the detailed design from MBC, including calcs and he then sent me a bunch of follow on questions on that package plus our non MBC elements (basement) etc that needed resolved before construction could commence. Most of this was just clarification and explanation - we had nothing that was a show stopper.

 

We've pretty much continued like this. Now that completion is imminent - he sent me a list of outstanding items which I've been able to tick off. If you have a good relationship then you should be able to run things past them (such as spec of plasterboard etc) - ours saved me a lot of grief by waving any need for an external SVP. Just remember to get a formal record (email) of any such phone conversations and make sure they respond to acknowledge and agree.

 

We only had a few inspections, first was when some supporting drainage was going in (this was pre demolition but allowed us to officially 'start' ahead of a new issue of more onerous conditions).  The first proper inspection was when the steel was being tied for the basement with the next one when the frame was erected and externally roofed & clad (had a small checklist of actions after that). We had one post 1st fix just before closing the cavity with PB and the last was to identify remaining items ahead of the final.

 

 

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Plagiarise all you need/want but make it a better document and share it on BuildHub in the future for others to continue improving ( and sharing)....As @Ferdinand has prompted make a donation, if you feel it adds value to your project,

 

You don't have to pay the Council (LABC) and an independent BCO. It's your decision  to choose one or the other to suit your specific needs. There are pros and cons for each of them, including differing costs, responsiveness and expertise in differeent areas of the coountry. It may also be a decison taken in conjunction with your requirement/need and subsequent choice of  Building Warranty provider, who may have specific requirements for BCO and their involvement with approval of specific stages  during the build process. There is lots of good info, including tales of good and bad experiences in the Building Regulation Blog.

 

I will review the Attachments and see what I can post on here, without too much effort.

 

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1 minute ago, HerbJ said:

You don't have to pay the Council (LABC) and an independent BCO. It's your decision  to choose one or the other to suit your specific needs. There are pros and cons for each of them, including differing costs, responsiveness and expertise in differeent areas of the coountry. It may also be a decison taken in conjunction with your requirement/need and subsequent choice of  Building Warranty provider, who may have specific requirements for BCO and their involvement with approval of specific stages  during the build process. There is lots of good info, including tales of good and bad experiences in the Building Regulation Blog.

 

 

Worth noting that there is only one significant difference  (apart from the fees and the individuals you will deal with) between LABC and a private building controls company.  LABC have enforcement rights against failure to comply with the regs, private building control companies don't, so have to pass recommendations for enforcement action for non-compliance on to their local LABC.

 

I'm not sure that this makes a significant difference, I think the biggest variable is the luck of the draw as to who you get as your BCO and inspector.  We hit gold with both from our LABC, but equally I know that our LABC has one or two real sods who would be pretty tough to deal with.  I suspect this is the same with a building control organisations and I'm not sure how you can reliably find ones that are easy to work with, unfortunately.

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 I have reviewed the attachments and there are a couple that can be added without any effort at removing confidential info.

 

These are two documents that I  developed for the original Planning Application, to demonstrate my approach to meet the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead  Supplementary Planning Documents for Sustainability and the Ageing Population/Lifetime Homes.  In the event , they were both included as Planning Conditions to an amended Planning Approval , after I successfully challenged a Planning Condition to comply with Level 4 of the Code for Sustainable Homes and had  this Condition removed from the original Planning Approval. They address the relevant parts of the Building Regulations  and that is why they were included.

 

As for the Building Regulation Specification,  these documents are fairly brief but just about meet their purpose.  On looking through them I realise that they should have been revised to take account of some design changes but I am probably the only one who is  interested at this time.

 

I will look at the drainage layout and  related attachments to see if I can easily redact any confidential info. If I can, I will post these later.

1740266_Planning Submission for Sustainability Measures.pdf

1740272_Planning Submission for Ageing Population.pdf

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Thanks Herb :)

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On 1/3/2018 at 18:44, JSHarris said:

 

Worth noting that there is only one significant difference  (apart from the fees and the individuals you will deal with) between LABC and a private building controls company.  LABC have enforcement rights against failure to comply with the regs, private building control companies don't, so have to pass recommendations for enforcement action for non-compliance on to their local LABC.

 

I'm not sure that this makes a significant difference, I think the biggest variable is the luck of the draw as to who you get as your BCO and inspector.  We hit gold with both from our LABC, but equally I know that our LABC has one or two real sods who would be pretty tough to deal with.  I suspect this is the same with a building control organisations and I'm not sure how you can reliably find ones that are easy to work with, unfortunately.

 

Hi,

 

i just received my Quote from LABC ...seems to be around £2.5k (for insurance)
Although i then asked them ..did this include a BCO element ...and they said "no, I would have to do this via the local council"

The local council charge about £850 for the Building Reg application and for the subsequent inspections 

 

DO bot those figures seem normal ?

 

what does seem strange is the council documents refer to (and have the logo of) LABC ??

 

Edited by Ed_MK

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They don't look to be in ball park, depending on house size and Insured Value.

 

My BCO costs were £750 +VAT = £900

 

My Structural Defects Warranty Insurance cost £2968

 

My house is a 360m2 MBC timberframe  . Insured Value £700,000

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1 hour ago, Ed_MK said:

 

Hi,

 

i just received my Quote from LABC ...seems to be around £2.5k (for insurance)
Although i then asked them ..did this include a BCO element ...and they said "no, I would have to do this via the local council"

The local council charge about £850 for the Building Reg application and for the subsequent inspections 

 

DO bot those figures seem normal ?

 

what does seem strange is the council documents refer to (and have the logo of) LABC ??

 

 

 

LABC ARE the local council, in essence the initials stand for Local Authority Building Control!  Local councils do not have any separate BCOs any more, the whole building control function was hived off to LABC years ago, AFAIK, although LABC is a part of, and will usually work out of the same buildings as, the local council, as a part of the Local authority.

 

IIRC, I think our LABC fees were cheaper than @HerbJs, I think we paid around £550 or thereabouts, for a full plans submission plus inspections.  We didn't bother with a warranty, as we're not going to sell, and felt that if we were forced to sell then a one-off indemnity insurance premium may well not be any more expensive, if it turned out that one was needed.  We've bought fairly new houses (less than ten years old) without a warranty in the past without any problems.

Edited by JSHarris

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20 hours ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

LABC ARE the local council, in essence the initials stand for Local Authority Building Control!  Local councils do not have any separate BCOs any more, the whole building control function was hived off to LABC years ago, AFAIK, although LABC is a part of, and will usually work out of the same buildings as, the local council, as a part of the Local authority.

 

IIRC, I think our LABC fees were cheaper than @HerbJs, I think we paid around £550 or thereabouts, for a full plans submission plus inspections.  We didn't bother with a warranty, as we're not going to sell, and felt that if we were forced to sell then a one-off indemnity insurance premium may well not be any more expensive, if it turned out that one was needed.  We've bought fairly new houses (less than ten years old) without a warranty in the past without any problems.

 

I see...very tempting ...although the wife is a "worrier" and I doubt I can convince her :(

going back to LABC....In essence the SAME person could be inspecting for Insurance and also as the BCO for the councils ratification?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ed_MK said:

 

I see...very tempting ...although the wife is a "worrier" and I doubt I can convince her :(

going back to LABC....In essence the SAME person could be inspecting for Insurance and also as the BCO for the councils ratification?

 

 

 

Yes, the usual benefit of having the warranty supplier and building control supplier from the same company/organisation is that there is a saving in inspection fees, as warranty inspections can be combined with building control inspections, instead of having two inspection call outs each time.

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Thanks J

 

Although after speaking to LABC, it seems that regardless I will have to pay

THEM £2800 inc VAT (Warranty)
and the BCO (Which it seems is ALSO LABC) £700

 

not forgetting the £180 to the council, to submit the form.

 

After reading their and others cover documents, I am of an opinion that

the chance of making (or should i say successfully making) a claim is as likely as Melania Trump
shopping at LIDL. Most things you would think are included are either 

 

a) Excluded completely

b) Gated behind your ability to source the guarantee from the actual tradesmen

 

in fact most appear to do NOTHING for the first 2 years anyway ..

..I think i will stare hard at my £2800 for a while longer 

 

Definitely a case of READ THE SMALL PRINT

..and by god is there a lot of it!

 

 

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