What is best for a kitchen floor? Keyword: durability (of floor and knees).

[Garald]

Work is in progress! We've had the existing kitchen (Mobalpa, mid-range) disassembled so that we can have the wall cleaned up (Grzegorz the Foreman spoke as if something nasty and unspeakable had been going on within, and of course we also want to insulate it) - and the existing and rather questionable floor (some sort of vinyl poorly laid on damaged old tomettes) got destroyed in the process.

 

So, what kind of floor to install? There are two or three options I can see:

 

1) solid oak, treated with some synthetic coating. Grzegorz knows how to get affordable solid oak. I still haven't had this option vetted by the architect.

https://www.wineo.de/inspiration/wohnwelten/fussboden-in-der-kueche

https://www.wineo.de/inspiration/wohnwelten/fussboden-in-der-kueche32) white or cream-colored terracotta from Spain (https://todobarro.com/suelo/paja-flameada/)  The architect has grown to really like the idea (in part because the rustic finish should hide stains, or rather react well to them). My girlfriend is deeply skeptical: (a) she's heard tile in the kitchen is bad for knees, (b) she thinks the floor will not go well with the Mobalpa kitchen, which we plan to reinstall.3

 

3.

3. "Normal" tile (stoneware). There are plenty of plenty, inexpensive possibilities. Reasons against them:

- stoneware, cooked at higher temperatures than terracotta, is apparently more fragile than terracotta.

- bad for knees?

 

4. Soft flooring - presumably from https://www.wineo.de/inspiration/wohnwelten/fussboden-in-der-kueche

 

Ideas? Anything I'm misnunderstanding something?https://www.wineo.de/inspiration/wohnwelten/fussboden-in-der-kueche

Edited November 18, 2022 by Garald

[Conor]

I don't think tiles can be beaten for durability. Larger the format the better as you've less grout to discolour 

 

Only other suggestion is a hard wearing laminate (AC4 or higher). That's what we have and feel it's a good balance between the soft look and feel of wood and the durability of tiles.

[nod]

As a tiler I’m bound to say tiles 

There are some great engineered woods out there But there are Porcelain tiles that are virtually indistinguishable from wood that will oust your kitchen and never fade or scratch 

[Temp]

The main issue with tiles/stone is the grout and keeping it clean. If I was building again I'd consider a dark tile and grout.

 

We have engineered oak in some room and it's been great but not sure I'd use it in a kitchen. Depends how messy you are.

 

Vinyl flooring can be pretty practical but doesn't always look high quality.

[Garald]

I see - thanks. But what about the issue of terracotta tile vs stoneware tile (i.e. high-temperature ceramics; the French term is "grès")? Is porcelain tile a different category, or does it fall under stoneware? Issues, as I said: durability - the floors' and my knees'. (I have no idea of whether "tile floors are bad for your feet" is a real issue, or just something that Martha Stewart and her friends made up; I had never heard of it, but now someone in my life - who largely isn't the one who cooks - is stating it repeatedly as if it were Carthago delenda est.)

 

Here are some links that the architect has given me. (Well, I gave the first one to her, but she's now an enthusiast, though she hasn't tried it yet.)

https://todobarro.com/suelos-barro/

https://www.comptoirducerame.com/fr/cabourg/5392-carrelage-sol-et-mur-ag2208004.html

https://www.leroymerlin.fr/produits/carrelage-parquet-sol-souple/carrelage/carrelage-cuisine/carrelage-cuisine-sol/1900-comillas-patchwork-20-x-20-cm-carrelage-aspect-carreaux-de-ciment-89163825.html

https://matcarrelage.com/fr/mur-sols-interieur/702115-carrelage-1900-decor-20x20-vives.html

https://www.portugres.com/faenza/centro-faenza/

https://www.portugres.com/alcazar-barroco/

 

As you can see, these are really different kinds of tile, but the meaning of the differences is still lost to me. What are the differences in material and how do they matter?

 

PS. I'll mention the grout to the builders, but that's just for reassurance - I'm pretty sure they know all about it; Grzegorz seems very competent.

PPS. The architect assures me that Wineo (ecuran) is a high-quality synthetic flooring that is relatively eco-friendly. Perhaps I'm behind the times, but I still think of that as something to use when a traditional solution doesn't work (i.e. on the ground floor, where the fact that we are adding insulation apparently means that we can't put thick flooring or else incomers will stumble). I see online that wineo does meet AC4 norms, whatever that means.

PPPS. Then there's the wall tile, for the backsplash (I *am* a messy cook). I suppose there we can just go with aesthetic criteria? Again, links from the architect:

https://www.ondacer.com/en/livorno-ma/84059-decor-savona-20x20cm.html

https://www.mainzu.com/es/producto/serie/livorno

 

[Marvin]

Hi @Garald

 

I assume you have insulation in the floor.....

 

In our kitchens over the years we have had all sorts. We found that tiles were unforgiving if you drop anything on them and can chip (probably the less resistant ones). A tough Vinyl with commercial durability works well if no joins and laminate flooring / natural wood is ok unless there is a leak! Carpet or carpet tiles we have never tried!

 

The terracotta tiles you show are a softer product and I think will chip. I understand that granite, ceramic and porcelain are the toughest tiles. If tiling I would definitely use a very dark grout and spray the set grout with a stain blocker to resist oil/grease stains.

 

[Garald]

> I assume you have insulation in the floor.....

 

Right - before we decided to redo the kitchen, we were going to insulate from below (the kitchen is above a coop corridor), but now I assume we'll put insulation under the floor as well; let me ask the architect. How does that affect our choices? You mean we may not be able to use thick material?

 

>The terracotta tiles you show are a softer product and I think will chip.

 

I think the architect's reasoning is that, since the terracotta tiles are somewhat irregular to begin with, stains and small chips won't show, or rather will just form part of the "weathering" of the product - whereas cement tiles often show stains easily, and stoneware can be more fragile than it looks. Does this make sense?

 

Is terracotta easier to stand on than hard tile?

Edited November 18, 2022 by Garald

[Garald]

Another kind of tile (porcelain), sent by a friend: https://www.etoffe.com/de/fliesen/33500-porzellan-steinzeug-hanna-nanda-tiles.html?fbclid=IwAR3m_cjJaUdk-0e5-AebPs7UL2bm3p6eLOG9O4KqAjMLT9t7cwdxi4XDki8

 

[Iceverge]

LVT here. Its relatively grippy, plates usually survive a fall, it's warm underfoot. 

 

Tiles are too hard, too slippery, too cold and too dangerous IMO. 

 

 

[Garald]

Is Wineo (https://en.wineo.de/inspiration/living-worlds/flooring-for-kitchen) an example of LVT? (It's what we were going to put as flooring before the decision to insulate the kitchen as well - something that led to more destruction and more freedom.)

 

How long do such artiificial floors last?

 

Is (properly treated) oak too delicate?

[Spreadsheetman]

Good topic. I’d like LVT in the kitchen, but my wife wants tiles.

 

Side question - In my case it’s an uninsulated concrete slab; is it worth putting one of the 10mm (or less) insulating tile backer boards down first, or will it make so little difference in practice that it isn’t worth it?

[Iceverge]

Yikes no insulation! 

Anything will be a big help. 

 

I would avoid any tiles as they'll be very uncomfortable. 

 

@Garald

That product looks like LVT although some of it is organic but a glance on the website didn't seem to expand much on that. 

 

My granny has vinyl tiles that are probably there since the 1960's. 

 

I have no experience of oak in person. 

 

 

 

 

[Garald]

That product is my architect's favorite synthetic flooring - apparently it looks very realistic.

[S2D2]

+1 for LVT, I used quick-step and I'd do the same if I did it again. 

[Iceverge]

 

Oak effect click down LVT here. I think it is quick step by another name. 

 

Easy to lay ( once your floor is dead smooth)  Hides dirt tremendously. That floor is filthy!! It has certainly reduced visits to the first aid kit for small kids. It's warm underfoot even with UFH. 

 

Be cautious of floating it however. I did over 12m stretch maximum length. 

 

I left the reccomended length for  expansion but it became trapped by furniture and bulges a little in the direct sunlight. I think that's due to using a thin underlay which slows the soaking of heat into the floor and heats the LVT more. 

 

Smaller areas I used it without underlay I had no problems. 2 years in and it's proving hard wearing. 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

I think all of these can be decent ideas.

 

I like Porcelain tiles (typically whatever is the Wickes half price if OK, or a trade supplier) or Quickstep laminate, which last time I used some had a 25 year warranty of sorts, and has lasted 5 years in a rental unspoilt. I used it in the hall / kitchen / bathroom alongside carpet in the living room and bedrooms.

 

LVT seems fine.

 

Think about it from the other end - do you want something soft to avoid crockery-smash, or what?

 

F

[Garald]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

Think about it from the other end - do you want something soft to avoid crockery-smash, or what?

 

F

 

Not really; what I have in the kitchen that has any value is either (a) indestructible (Dutch oven, etc.) or (b) something that I handle with care (Roemertopf, tajine,... ah wait, the tajine is already cracked, though not smashed).

 

No, my girlfriend and her parents are going on about how it is important to have soft floors in the kitchen (where "soft" includes wood) so as to avoid problems later in life. Her brother is actually in orthopedics, so his input would be valuable, but they haven't actually asked him. In the meantime, my family and I are scratching our collective head; we've never even heard of health problems or even just discomfort caused by tile, we've been cooking while standing on tile floors since time immemorial (unless grandma first cooked on a dirt floor; never asked her) and, yes, I am the one who cooks.

[ProDave]

4 minutes ago, Garald said:

No, my girlfriend and her parents are going on about how it is important to have soft floors in the kitchen (where "soft" includes wood)

We have engineered Oak boards in our kitchen.  We agonised at the time what to fit, discounted pretend wood ceramic tiles as not realistic enough and prone to being like a banana and lipping issues unless laid with a very short bond.  It's a kitchen dining room and we didn't want a change of surface in the room.

 

So we chose the Oak, the whole of that room, the hall, and the living room are one continuous lay of the same Oak floor.

 

It is lasting well.  the 2 things we do, is there is a washable mat on the floor where most of the food prep is done, and we try to be careful not to drip anything on the floor.

 

5  years or so in user and still looking very good.

[Garald]

That's good news.

7 minutes ago, ProDave said:

We have engineered Oak boards in our kitchen.  [...] So we chose the Oak, the whole of that room, the hall, and the living room are one continuous lay of the same Oak floor.

 

It is lasting well.

 

That's good news. We can't use the same oak as in the hall and library (because we can't go back in time 90 years) but we could use the same solid oak that we'll lay on the attic (Grzegorz has got it for a very reasonable price); see appearance above.

 

9 minutes ago, ProDave said:

  the 2 things we do, is there is a washable mat on the floor where most of the food prep is done, and we try to be careful not to drip anything on the floor.

 

Uf, I really can't promise that. What I could ask is for the oak floor to get synthetic protection (we'll go with oil for the attic).

[bassanclan]

Just put 18mm engineered oak parquet through downstairs kitchen-diner, hall, study and utility room. It looks stunning, glad to hear positive reviews about oak in a kitchen as it was a worry in the back of my mind!

[Ferdinand]

19 hours ago, Garald said:

 

Not really; what I have in the kitchen that has any value is either (a) indestructible (Dutch oven, etc.) or (b) something that I handle with care (Roemertopf, tajine,... ah wait, the tajine is already cracked, though not smashed).

 

No, my girlfriend and her parents are going on about how it is important to have soft floors in the kitchen (where "soft" includes wood) so as to avoid problems later in life. Her brother is actually in orthopedics, so his input would be valuable, but they haven't actually asked him. In the meantime, my family and I are scratching our collective head; we've never even heard of health problems or even just discomfort caused by tile, we've been cooking while standing on tile floors since time immemorial (unless grandma first cooked on a dirt floor; never asked her) and, yes, I am the one who cooks.

 

If you are worried about joints, can you not have porcelain and all wear Garfield slippers 😁:

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Ferdinand
Typoo.

[puntloos]

On 19/11/2022 at 16:09, Ferdinand said:

 

If you are worried about joints, can you not have porcelain and all wear Garfield slippers 😁:

 

This is certainly .. slippery.

 

Re-animating this thread for a moment. I'd love to know if there are 'anti-slip' versions of popular tile types - that stays optimally safe while wet?

Are there no porcelain tiles that have some pattern/profile that will prevent most slips? Or is LVT/amtico really the way to go if you care most about safety while wet?

[Iceverge]

I once visited a house with rubber flooring. Grippy, warm, easy to clean, soft underfoot. Interesting bright colours. 

 

Not cheap though. 

[Ferdinand]

3 hours ago, puntloos said:

This is certainly .. slippery.

 

Re-animating this thread for a moment. I'd love to know if there are 'anti-slip' versions of popular tile types - that stays optimally safe while wet?

Are there no porcelain tiles that have some pattern/profile that will prevent most slips? Or is LVT/amtico really the way to go if you care most about safety while wet?

 

Double sided tape on the bottom.

 

Then you won't slip !

 

(Hope you have a single-point kitchen design.)

 

My other brilliant idea is .... velcro.

[puntloos]

But srsly, how much is 'scary slipperiness' a problem? Clearly, if you have a stainless steel floor, then a drop of water would make you slip, and somehow my previous place's kitchen tiles were fairly bad, they were some sort of oldfashioned porcelain, but certainly some texture too. But my current kitchen seems much better even though the tiles have a more subtle pattern (it feels somewhat akin to chalkboard)

 

Is most of this 'fine' or is there some way to avoid obvious bad tiles? Or?