French Doors reveals moisture.

[Radian]

I'm wondering if@zoothorn really understands the relationship between temperature and humidity? I'm sure @SteamyTea will have given him a thorough education on it. It's really straightforward though.

 

In an extreme practical situation, a meter simultaneously showing RH and temperature is going to be dripping with water if it shows 100% RH. It means that the air is fully saturated and the dewpoint (a temperature) will be the same as the ambient temperature reading - whatever that might be. Anything less than 100% RH will have a corresponding dewpoint at less than the ambient temperature shown. The lower the RH, the lower the dewpoint. If the meter is in a room which feels to have a comfortable ambient temperature overall, there will inevitably be areas that are cooler. If the dewpoint is lower than the surface temperatures in these places, the ambient water vapor will condense on these surfaces.

 

You can play around with temperature, humidity and dewpoint with any suitable online calculator like this to see what happens.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, Radian said:

I'm sure @SteamyTea will have given him a thorough education on it. It's really straightforward though.

Not unless I am getting senior lecturer wages again.

One bit of advice for free, heat and ventilate.

[zoothorn]

15 hours ago, Radian said:

I'm wondering if@zoothorn really understands the relationship between temperature and humidity? I'm sure @SteamyTea will have given him a thorough education on it. It's really straightforward though.

 

In an extreme practical situation, a meter simultaneously showing RH and temperature is going to be dripping with water if it shows 100% RH. It means that the air is fully saturated and the dewpoint (a temperature) will be the same as the ambient temperature reading - whatever that might be. Anything less than 100% RH will have a corresponding dewpoint at less than the ambient temperature shown. The lower the RH, the lower the dewpoint. If the meter is in a room which feels to have a comfortable ambient temperature overall, there will inevitably be areas that are cooler. If the dewpoint is lower than the surface temperatures in these places, the ambient water vapor will condense on these surfaces.

 

You can play around with temperature, humidity and dewpoint with any suitable online calculator like this to see what happens.

Radian, I know all this. You don't understand my points to say this (slightly condascending) reply.

 

Look.
 

If I have a ( cheapo) temp & humidity meter showing 72%, & you have one showing 72%, but I have these (LOCAL AREA) mould anomalies consistant in this house just as mrs. miggins' dry modern bungalow..... but which you do not get, then just going by this humidity figure is not enough information: something else has to be at play or we all, you, me mrs.miggins, would get the same mould anomalies. We do, but you don't.

 

Reminders of what these are, consistent with the local area ( NOT PLEASE solely consistent with my house !!):

 

1) severe green mould appearing equally rapidly in different houses

2) severe green mould on exterior walls appearing too

3) alot of black mould in houses, including large "breath patches" ( you have this do you?! )

4) pain (lungs) for 3 months innitially, not solely in this house, but by frequenting everywhere around here.

5) ALL paper within houses, vinyl sleeves best eg, warp/ wibble & feel tangibly soft, never crisp.

6) stove heat feels tangibly, cloyingly wet, same in my house as in my new cabin: IDENTICAL; a sauna is an absolutely -ideal- comparison: it feels absolutely identical. Nowhere else have I felt this. Nowhere, in the world.

7) clothes always feel slightly 'damp', & take far longer than normal to (air) dry

8 ) most folks here have dehumidifiers " we all have them, you can borrow/ try if you want, but.." but all redundent: why: because they ( normal sized house units) can't possibly cope with what they're up against

9) warm up a bed with leccy blanket, shift your feet & the air feels cloyingly "humid". It just does. Every time.

 

And lastly, as I believe it has a significant factor in (if not the very cause IMHO)..

 

10) this unusually high level of mould/ plasterboard damage, in a newly built extention up to all normal build standards, happening in so short a time.

 

In simple conclusion, from 6 years living here, consistent with others identical opinion:

 

[[[ YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE LOCAL AIR HERE ! ]]]

 

But still you'll say 'if you have a damp house then you can do something about it!' (For goodness sake, & Im back full circle you seemingly not understanding -a word- of what I'm saying). 

Anyway I give up trying to explain. Its as frustrating explaining what we have to contend with here, as it is actually living with it. Right now for eg, my lungs feel heavy, & in front of my ipad area, in my dry 80's extention is a wall - covered- in 2 sq M of mild "breath mould" (Photo added before, green painted wall). Do you have this!? No. Have you ever heard of this, ever, in any house, in you're life, in any country that you've been to!? No. 
 

Zh

 

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

18 months since extention built, & painted (not in "Zoot's magic mould-attracting paint" ) in standard good quality masonry paint. The side faces east, get good sun all morning, & isn't sheltered away or anything at all.. in fact gets much breeze here.

 

18 months

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Wind comes channelling up our small valley here, up from centre of frame, S.westward towards the house, it gets continually battered by wind here ( especially so balcony side / drive area)..

 

[dpmiller]

so your algae is green. Over here it tends to be red/brown...

 

what temperature is the room held at again please?

[SteamyTea]

48 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Anyway I give up trying to explain.

Good.

Now you can listen to advice, you have two ears and one mouth, use them in that preportion.

49 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Do you have this!? No. Have you ever heard of this, ever, in any house, in you're life, in any country that you've been to!? No. 

I have, and I have made suggestions to cure it.

 

50 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

my lungs feel heavy

What other allergies do you have?

[ProDave]

On 30/09/2022 at 11:18, zoothorn said:

Hi Peter, I'll try digging out some pics good idea. No trickle vents, but as said the room is aired throughout the day  leaving the window open

How is that going to comply with building regs?  Unless you have mvhr or similar, you must have a certain amount of trickle ventilation.  e.g none of our main house windows have trickle vents because we have mvhr, but the sun room, not heated and not covered by the mvhr has trickle vents in the windows.

 

P.S that unheated room has no condensation or mould.

[JohnMo]

Simple science is.

 

If external relative humidity is 70+, and inside air temperature or building fabric temperature is the same then it will be 70+ relative humidity inside. You get mould. 

 

If the internal temperature is warmer than outside, the relative humidity drops, the likelihood of mould drops, once relative humidity is below 50% and you have suitable ventilation you don't get mould.

 

As mentioned you need to heat the house and have suitable ventilation.  Because houses near you have similar issues doesn't really mean anything.  A house down from me is new, concrete tile roof is already green, where it doesn't get the sun. My internal humidity rarely goes above 45%, the issues aren't related.

 

[Radian]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

Radian, I know all this. You don't understand my points to say this (slightly condascending) reply.

 

Sorry, my reply wasn't meant to be unpleasant in any way. It was my way of saying it looked as though you didn't understand the relationship between RH and temperature because 72% RH is not normal for a properly constructed/heated/ventilated house and this point is crucial. This is because, regardless of your inside temperature, the temperature margin between non-condensing and condensing surfaces is too small to prevent mould growth in any realistic heating scenario.

 

Let me put it another way, had you said all these problems were happening and your typical RH was 50% or below, I'd be lost for any suggestions - other that you have serious cold bridging because problem surfaces would have to be around 10^oC below your typical ambient temperature.

 

But if the air in the valley where you live is unrelentingly humid all the time such that RH is always > 70% you would have to resort to the methods used in the tropics. Maintaining positive pressure internally and the dehumidification of incoming air or full air-tightness and conditioned air are the kinds of measures used.

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE LOCAL AIR HERE !

 

The outside air no, the inside air yes. 

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, dpmiller said:

so your algae is green. Over here it tends to be red/brown...

 

what temperature is the room held at again please?

No, the colour is not the point of putting this photo up.

 

The point is the time this has taken, to form dpm.

[zoothorn]

15 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

The outside air no, the inside air yes. 

Exactly Onoff.

 

You cannot replace the inside air, of a house, feasably or affordably. You may be able to in a normal area (by spending hundreds on multiple dehumidifiers & running them incessantly you might be able to). But NOT here. Proven. Household after household. No-one bothers. Why not? Because they are useless, here. Perhaps & probably useful there (for you in Onoffland) but not here..... or they wouldn't be relegated unused to garage cnr after dusty garage cnr house after house.
 

So the inside air will always be determined, by the air outside. Especially so ffs if I'm continually being told "ventilate, ventilate, ventilate" which I say I do by leaving this room's window open for most of every day. I mean for crying out loud how on earth can the idea of dehumidifiers be feasable whatsoever, if at the same time time as suggesting these (besides from the fact they do not work here) it's being suggested I ventilate ventilate?! Argh!

 

It's nuts. It's a similar frustration as my freezing main room, which takes an locomotive like shovelling in of wood to its stove to get a semblence of warmth in (even so, having still to have a scarf & hat on, & my back still cold all evening)... but at the same time I'm told " you must have a largish vent for the stove", which, when done, introduces freezing air into the room totally negating hours of effort spent warming the bloody room up!!

 

So in the stove situation, I can't have a vent making my room cold. Or I'd be even colder. Which leaves no option but blocking the hole, & relying on a Co alarm in case of emergency. 

---

All I'm saying is this is just how it is here, you have no ( feasable) option but lump it. I could, open my window plus introducing a jet-engine 300hp dehumidifier, costing £12k. Yes then my air inside will be 97% dehumidified. But this isn't a feasable option. Yes I could excavate 1 foot of my stove ( old) room floor 10x6m, put down 100mm celotex, cap it with 50mm concrete ( & redone dpm) meaning I could have a vent plus the stove on & I could just about get warm ( plus the edge damp might lessen too). But this isn't a feasable option as I cannot afford to do it.

 

zh

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

18 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

You cannot replace the inside air, of a house, feasably or affordably. You may be able to in a normal area (by spending hundreds on multiple dehumidifiers & running them incessantly you might be able to). But NOT here. Proven.

Here is my external RH profile so far this year, it will only have more damp from now on.  I don't use anything other than natural ventilation.  I doubt your RH profile is any worse than mine.

So not proven at all.

 

[ProDave]

I regularly look at the local weather station, mostly for the wind and temperature but also look at RH and that is often up around 70 to 90%

 

e.g here is last day or so with a longer time in the little graph at the bottom.  This is not an unusual location so I would assume RH here is much the same.

 

 

RH inside the house barely changes from about 50%

[TonyT]

Move house if it’s that bad for your health 

[Onoff]

57 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Move house if it’s that bad for your health 

 

His house is definitely bad for my mental health.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

17 minutes ago, Onoff said:

mental

I want to be mental, can then get away with shouting obscenities at strangers.

Or is that just drunk.

[Onoff]

18 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I want to be mental, can then get away with shouting obscenities at strangers.

Or is that just drunk.

 

I've been to the pub two nights in a row. (Looking like it might be a third). Pub quiz last night, just my daughter and I on our team. Never done one before. My hurriedly thought up team name seemed to be appreciated. Apt seeing as we live down in the valley depths...where it's incidentally very damp with lots of exotic and no doubt esoteric  green mould...

 

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, Onoff said:

exotic and no doubt esoteric  green mould

That will be the beer then. Was told they scrape the secret ingredient off the pit lane at BH.

[Onoff]

9 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

That will be the beer then. Was told they scrape the secret ingredient off the pit lane at BH.

 

Go back far enough and 🍺 was brewed on the premises. Let's face it the hops were on the doorstep round here.

[Ferdinand]

12 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Go back far enough and 🍺 was brewed on the premises. Let's face it the hops were on the doorstep round here.

 

What were the topics of rounds 1, 4, 5 and 8?

[Onoff]

39 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

What were the topics of rounds 1, 4, 5 and 8?

 

My daughter might remember. Not only had I had a few pints but I'd worn my contact lenses so no good for reading / writing (had thought about walking back in the driving rain). Didn't think to take my reading glasses.

 

Such was my blurred vision I put Alan Titchmarsh down for Alec Baldwin and Seb Coe for Paxman in the picture competition.....

 

Great fun. There's another on Fri 28th!

Edited October 1, 2022 by Onoff

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

My daughter might remember. Not only had I had I few pints but I'd worn my contact lenses so no good for reading / writing (had thought about walking back in the driving rain). Didn't think to take my reading glasses.

 

Such was my blurred vision I put Alan Titchmarsh down for Alec Baldwin and Seb Coe for Paxman in the picture competition.....

 

Great fun. There's another on Fri 28th!

 

Not urgent.

 

I was just trying to make my next @Onoffcharacter assassination gentle wind-up was a stiletto not a bludgeon.

 

Now I'll get off Zoot's thread.

[Onoff]

Just now, Ferdinand said:

 

I was just trying to make my next @Onoffcharacter assassination a stiletto not a bludgeon.

 

I knew where you were going with it, don't worry. Very unsporting what with me being blind and inebriated! 😂

 

My being sober and sighted might have given us another 5 or so points I reckon. Might have edged to 3rd place.