New build design & floorplan - Comments please!

[jimmyharris80]

Hi all,

 

We are a number of years into our self build journey and are still to put a spade in the ground.  It’s been a long and somewhat frustrating journey to date due to a number of factors but we are still fully committed to the project, which will hopefully deliver us our family home for the next 10-20 years!

 

Unfortunately we had to take the difficult decision to abort our previous approved design due to cost estimates coming in way way over budget following an in depth review with an independent QS.  A combination of material price increases and a complex design meant we just couldn't get the numbers to work, and ultimately is was too risky to proceed.  Having discussed at length with the various suppliers we engaged along the way, their view was that there was complexity at every level of the design from the ground works (retaining wall integrated into house, stepped foundations, multi-level, etc) to the roof structure (large cat slide roof, 2 x glazed gables, 4 x dormers, rooms in eaves, etc), you can view the original design here if you wish.

 

We are now into design number three, working with an architectural technician to formulate a proposal that focuses a lot more on function than form as well as adopting a fabric first approach (this was a major oversight on our original design) and utilising timber frame.  We like the modern barn style so are trying to keep the main part of the dwelling in that form, with additional elements added to provide a more of an open plan design as well as provide architectural features.

We now have a design and floorplan that we are happy gives us the space we need, and I am interested to know the thoughts of other self-builders who have been here before.  I believe we’ve considered in detail how we'll use each of the rooms and will transition within the space, but there may well be something we’ve missed along the way or failed to consider, any input or critique is very welcome.

Many thanks in advance
 

Front elevations:

 

Rear elevations:

Ground Floor floor plan:

 

First floor floor plan:

 

Plot:

Edited September 29, 2022 by jimmyharris80
minor amend

[Bozza]

Firstly I rarely comment on the style of a house as that is personal choice, but that said I do like what you’ve done.  I can see how the design is more efficient budget wise.    The house is definitely a bold and honest design. Can’t tell from the pic but looks like you might be looking at contrasting individuals bricks in the brickwork, or protruding brickwork which I think would be a nice considered (low cost) design feature.    Looks like steel roof too again that is a nice idea for that type of house.

 

Just a few minor suggestions:

 

1.  As a family home I’d ensure more storage in hallway.  Also think about bringing the front door to the right, creating a small vestibule area.  I think that area as it is with bottom of stairs and entrance to kitchen will be a pinch point for a busy family home.  

 

2.  Master bedroom door needs reversed.

 

3.  Bedroom 2. Door/wardrobe door clash.  Easily resolved.

 

 

[JohnMo]

Your windows look messy, with the multitude of shapes and sizes.  You seem to have lots of glazing on the north side, which isn't good for heat loss.  On the kitchen diner you have two big sliding doors, I doubt if two would be opened at a time, so consider dropping to a single one and window in kitchen, this would also give more wall space.

 

Your lounge looks small when you compare to the study which looks huge.

 

Not sure why you have an external door in the playroom.

 

Pocket sliding doors in a utility looks like an expensive solution in to what looks like a plant room.

 

I would be moving things about to get a second en-suite.  Do you need two baths?

 

A lot of dead space on the landing.

 

The recessed wall area at the front door seems a waste of internal space, you have two external walls to build, increase heat loss for little gain, as it doesn't appear to covered either, so would end up a damp area.

 

Your heat heat pump is near the utility window and back door, it may be better around the corner and give less noise intrusion.

[AliG]

I agree with almost every word already said. A very noice house with just a few details to refine.

 

1. Moving the front door 1m towards the front of the house will make moving around in the hall a lot easier. You have the entrance to the stairs, and three doors all in a small space.

 

2. Either have an understair cupboard or have a deeper cupboard that utilises one of the cupboards in the playroom.

 

3. Sliders are considerably more expensive than windows, lose a set of sliders in the kitchen. Even if you make one a full height fixed window it would be around half the price.

 

4. I would put the hob on the island so that you can face the room as you cook.

 

5. You could probably make the utility room smaller and the pocket door to the plant room will be an unnecessary expense.

 

6. I don't think the central doors in the dressing room/en suite are a good idea. They are probably better put to one side. It will be quite difficult to furnish the dressing room with the door in the middle.

 

7. I am fine with the size of the landing, I like them to have a window, but I doubt anyone is ever going to sit there. A second en suite would be nice and you could possibly free up some space if you made the landing a little narrower, but that won't be easy as it requires moving the stairs.

 

[jimmyharris80]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for your feedback, really appreciated.  It's easy to think you've thought of most things, then sometimes you don't see the obvious!

 

Moving front door - Good point, on reflection that does look like a pinch point, option here could be to move the front door 1.5m-2m to the right, then extend the canopy over the front door so it's covered, we could then shift to door to one side of the entrance and have a vestibule area with a cupboard to one side and lose the cupboard in the playroom, freeing up more space in there.  The hallway may then be a little on the large size?

 

Window hotch potch on North elevation - Will take a look at this and see if we can simplify, take on board the issue of heat loss.

 

Ensuite upstairs - Thinking here was that with 3 x bathrooms already across two floors that would be adequate, 4 bathrooms in a 4 bed house feels excessive, a solution could be to jack and jill the upstairs family bathroom from one of the bedrooms, maybe removing the bath to make way?

 

Large study - Main reason for this is that this space will house the wife's studio for her home interiors business (2m x 1m workbench, fabric & supplies storage, etc) as well as my home office so needs to be larger than your average study, the idea is that in future this room could be converted to a downstairs bedroom with adjacent bathroom if required.

 

Playroom External door - Good point, will look to remove this as access out via the back door is pretty straight forward from this room.

 

Two sets of sliders - Alternative here could be to mirror the upstairs master bed picture window downstairs, I think aesthetically that would improve and simplify the rear elevation.

 

Utility & pocket doors - Will see if we can shift the plant room door to the right, this could give us more worktop space.  We could reduce size and add a bit more space to the playroom by shifting that wall to the left a little, but there's potentially a fair bit going in this room, washing machine/tumble dryer, doggy bits and bobs, bench seating which was the main reason for the size.

 

Landing size - The idea here was to incorporate storage and house a 'library' wall, hence the size, this window does offer nice views to the front of the property and mature trees so we liked the idea of perching here with a book!

 

Walk in wardrobe - Will look at configuration options here to simplify and make furnishing a bit more straight forward.

 

@Bozza External materials wise, we're thinking standard brickwork for the main dwelling (a fairly subtle multi blend), standing steel roof (possibly extending this down the SE elevation, vertical cladding for the pop outs and either standing steel/render for the canopy.

[Modernista]

17 hours ago, AliG said:

 

4. I would put the hob on the island so that you can face the room as you cook.

Yes, we've done that with a downdraft extractor and very pleased with result. Ours is at the island end and it's great to be able to have three sides to the hob - especially if multiple folk involved in meal prep + someone on the stools can always watch the rice etc!

 

14 minutes ago, jimmyharris80 said:

but there's potentially a fair bit going in this room

...it's a shame the utility room isn't connected to the kitchen as we've found that when you have a kitchen / dining / living it's great to have some of the stuff like appliances etc on connected utility room worktops so out of the way / less noise etc and leaving design magazine style clear kitchen worktops(!) .....but probably too late now unless you moved the office to playroom, utility to office and playroom to utility (with some size adjustments accordingly)......

 

16 minutes ago, jimmyharris80 said:

nice views to the front of the property and mature trees so we liked the idea of perching here with a book

We've done that and don't regret it at all 

[jimmyharris80]

5 minutes ago, Modernista said:

...it's a shame the utility room isn't connected to the kitchen as we've found that when you have a kitchen / dining / living it's great to have some of the stuff like appliances etc on connected utility room worktops so out of the way / less noise etc and leaving design magazine style clear kitchen worktops(!) .....but probably too late now unless you moved the office to playroom, utility to office and playroom to utility (with some size adjustments accordingly)......

 

This was a consideration for us, however, one of the benefits of our plot are the views to the large rear garden from that elevation, we wanted to take advantage of those by placing the main living space and home office (the rooms we use most) to that elevation.  Putting the utility there felt like a bit of a waste, although we do understand the appeal of having it adjacent to the kitchen.

[JohnMo]

We used small double doors (total width 838mm) in the utility to the UFH and airing cupboard. Works well doesn't take space away from utility.

 

Get a price for standing seam metal roof, can be very expensive. We were quoted £165/m2 3 years ago for either zinc or aluminium.  We paid £65 (last year) for a Sarnafil standing seam roof.  We had a 194m2 of roof to do, so a considerable price difference.

[jimmyharris80]

18 hours ago, AliG said:

4. I would put the hob on the island so that you can face the room as you cook.

 

Still undecided on this one.  We like the idea of a clean island for food prep, seating, breakfast bar etc but I do get the appeal of putting the hob there.  I think it's an easy switch to make when we get to kitchen design so one to mull over!

[JohnMo]

We have a clean island, in this house and the last.  Not keen on sinks or hobs in islands and I'm the one who cooks.

[jimmyharris80]

Just now, JohnMo said:

We have a clean island, in this house and the last.  Not keen on sinks or hobs in islands and I'm the one who cooks.

 

Sink on an island is a definite no for me, it just becomes a dumping ground for dirty washing, hob I can see the appeal, but remain unconvinced!

[jimmyharris80]

5 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

We used small double doors (total width 838mm) in the utility to the UFH and airing cupboard. Works well doesn't take space away from utility.

 

Get a price for standing seam metal roof, can be very expensive. We were quoted £165/m2 3 years ago for either zinc or aluminium.  We paid £65 (last year) for a Sarnafil standing seam roof.  We had a 194m2 of roof to do, so a considerable price difference.

 

Thanks JohnMo, we were looking at steel, but do need to do some research on other materials and associated costs, we'll also have some flat roof sections to cover so need to factor this in.  Not heard of Sarnafil before so thanks for that, will take a look.

[PeterW]

11 minutes ago, jimmyharris80 said:

I think it's an easy switch to make when we get to kitchen design so one to mull over!

Not as easy as you think ..! Drainage, power and water all need to go in at first fix and not as an afterthought. Duct for the power for a hob is cheap, water may need some thought.

[Kelvin]

30 minutes ago, jimmyharris80 said:

 

Sink on an island is a definite no for me, it just becomes a dumping ground for dirty washing, hob I can see the appeal, but remain unconvinced!

Our living room/kitchen/dining area is almost identical to yours including the size. We also have a very similarly sized island. We elected to put the sink and hob on the island for a few reasons. Firstly it meant we removed the kitchen units entirely from the back wall. This gave us space back and took a load of cost out of the kitchen. Our island has several long deep drawers which are more practical than cupboards. It meant we could look into the room when in the kitchen and enjoy the view we bought the room plot for rather than have our back to it. The dishwasher is in the island too so it means the hob, sink and dishwasher are all together so no need to wander round the kitchen carrying stuff from area to area. I can post a pic if you like  including a 3D render.
 

On the the 3D render, if you haven’t done it I highly recommend it. I did mine myself using RoomSketcher. 
 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Kelvin

[Ferdinand]

27 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

We used small double doors (total width 838mm) in the utility to the UFH and airing cupboard. Works well doesn't take space away from utility.

 

 

I'm not convinced by that one - it means you need 2 hands to open both doors so have to put things down.

 

1 hour ago, jimmyharris80 said:

Window hotch potch on North elevation - Will take a look at this and see if we can simplify, take on board the issue of heat loss.

 

 

Remember that in well insulated houses * cooling is as big an issue as warming. North windows let in a nice quality of light. One of the biggest problems we wrestle with hear is preventing houses overheating in summer, or in the spring / autumn months.

 

Ferdinand

 

* This may be everything now given the recent building regs changes - I had a building whinging to me last week about how all his future cavities were going to have to be 150mm not 100mm to fit enough rockwool in to meet the requirements. 😛

[JohnMo]

13 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

45 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

We used small double doors (total width 838mm) in the utility to the UFH and airing cupboard. Works well doesn't take space away from utility.

 

 

I'm not convinced by that one - it means you need 2 hands to open both doors so have to put things down

Works for us, open one door then the other, only need one hand. Not sure where the requirement of opening both doors at the same comes in. If you have nothing in your hands open both together, same is true when closing also.

[Ferdinand]

5 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Works for us, open one door then the other, only need one hand. Not sure where the requirement of opening both doors at the same comes in. If you have nothing in your hands open both together, same is true when closing also.

 

Interesting.

 

I have a pair of double doors to my conservatory which are only 1.1m total opening, and I find them a pain - even to walk through sideways when only one is open. 

 

My main route is to  the garden so perhaps I carry things two handed more often.

 

Or perhaps I am wider than you are 😛?

[JohnMo]

Our doors are Louvre doors on magnet catches, that may be the difference.

[AliG]

We have a sink and hob on the island, but we have another sink on the wall for dishwashing as I didn’t want stuff stacked in the island.

 

Island sink for food prep and glasses of water, main sink for dishes.

 

Makes life a lot easier as you can just brush stuff into the sink. Both sinks have a waste disposal. I don’t know why everyone doesn’t have one. Cheap and massively reduces waste that has to be dealt with.

 

 

[ProDave]

43 minutes ago, AliG said:

Makes life a lot easier as you can just brush stuff into the sink. Both sinks have a waste disposal. I don’t know why everyone doesn’t have one. Cheap and massively reduces waste that has to be dealt with.

Perhaps not good on a septic tank or treatment plant?  I actively minimise what goes down the sink, use the sink strainer to catch all solids to go in the bin, and if there is a lot of food / cooking fat, I pour that into a used vessel e.g. old jam jar and it goes in the bin not the treatment plant.

[Kelvin]

We’ll have a treatment plant so want to minimise what goes down the sink plus we compost as much as we can

[jimmyharris80]

Thanks all, looks like what you have on your island is down to personal preference, my wife is also a big fan of keeping the island clean so looks like we'll be keeping the hob and the sink off of it!

 

We'll be piping into a sewage treatment plant so anything other that liquid down the plug is a no no unless we want a nasty shock down the line.

 

As the doors will be to the plant room I don't envisage it being a highly used space or one we'll travel through with our hands full so a double door solution would work I think.

 

@Ferdinand Overheating is something we are very much aware of, this was flagged up on our previous scheme due to the large SW glazed gable end.  We will be looking to put in MVHR as well as an ASHP as we are off grid for mains gas.  Is there any area of concern you see on this design in terms of overheating?  The lounge with the two large picture windows on SE & SW elevations, the SE window is covered by a canopy, would that be enough shading or is overheating is this room still a risk do you think?

[Adsibob]

Very nice and considerate design. I like it.
Not sure if this has already been covered but:

• How small are your kids? If small, I'd consider moving the playroom somewhere else, where they can play in sight of adults.
• Where is your hot water tank going? It's important to place this close to the taps you want near-instant hot water for. A secondary loop is another option.
• Do you need a playroom, an open plan lounge and another lounge? Could you make these spaces more adaptable so that their use changes as the kids grow older? E.g. any benefit in making the wall between the lounge and playroom collapsible? 
• I agree you should link the utility room to the kitchen. Why does the study need to be where it is. If you're staring at a PC screen, it surely doesn't matter what the view is like out the window. Switch it with the utility room.

[CharlieKLP]

Over your dining table, you have about 5m span of brickwork that will need to be supported. How are you doing that.

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, Adsibob said:

I agree you should link the utility room to the kitchen. Why does the study need to be where it is. If you're staring at a PC screen, it surely doesn't matter what the view is like out the window. Switch it with the utility room.

 

Excuses for not working are important 😁.