BCO 'signing off' my build: Q's.

[SteamyTea]

22 hours ago, joe90 said:

However, if I may, his original build is not passive, no cavity no wall insulation, perhaps no DPC and years of damp build up within the old stone. I am sure with lots of heat and ventilation the damp could be removed but it won’t be quick.

He never leaves his heating on long enough to warm the structure.

Has he had his new heating system fitted yet, winter is on its way.

[joe90]

13 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Has he had his new heating system fitted yet, winter is on its way.

I am not brave enough to ask 😱

[zoothorn]

On 28/09/2022 at 07:53, SteamyTea said:

He never leaves his heating on long enough to warm the structure.

Has he had his new heating system fitted yet, winter is on its way.

ST. It has nothing to do with the structure! Its a new build extention! Its been up 18 months! We  just had massively hot summer! For crying out loud!

--

Nothing to do with the heating system. Nothing whatsoever.

 

--

 

I just shouldn't -----under normal circumstances------ get this ammount of plasterboard & material damage (albeit minor,

i still had to 2 days repair it) in a brand new extention, using modern materials, correct methods to build it, just-signed-off.

 

I just shouldn't. End of.
 

Regardless entirely, of what heater type is in this room, & when it's chosen to be on. The new build's material integrity is NOT NOT NOT dependent on the heating put in afterwards. It should remain --uncompromised-- having been built, after 18 months & one damn hot summer to rid ANY semblence of structural moisture leeching by this time. It just should.

 

Only one factor is logically culpable, which CANNOT be altered, causing or more likely FACILITATING to a high degree, this unusually high ammount of material damage, from mould, which is formed FROM MOISTURE. The air.

 

You are simply determined to disagree with this post. Its not there to help, it's there to disagree with me. Collectively with others. This is what a forum just does ( agree with a group, against one person ).

 

zh

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

You are simply determined to disagree with this post

I asked you to find some local weather data to support your claim, have you done it yet, probably take 2 minutes to find your local WeatherUnderground station and post the link up.

 

As for a forum ganging up, it only happens when someone is totally wrong, try the suggestions, see what works, it has to be better than your assumptions.

[zoothorn]

On 28/09/2022 at 08:07, joe90 said:

I am not brave enough to ask 😱

Joe, for goodness sake.

 

You also are saying this mould is a result of 'house damp'.

 

Utter baloney.

 

For crying out loud why cant you accept this: this is mould in a new build. A new structure. Not in the old part of the house. Well away from the old part. Its in the new, timberframe, extention. The furthest point from the old part of the house. You DO NOT expect, whatsoever, in any tiny capacity even, to have damp.... in this new extention. NO. NO. NO. 
 

But you & others, keep replying "heat it to rid the damp". For gods sake it's driving me utterly mad reading this.

 

If you came here, in 1/2 hour you'd feel damp. NNNOOOOOTTTT in the house, in the area around it, in the vicinity, in the local area, in the village. IE connected NOT with any house's individual damp, but in the area's moisture.

 

"has he put the heat on yet to rid the damp?" Jesus wept.

 

zh

 

 

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I asked you to find some local weather data to support your claim, have you done it yet, probably take 2 minutes to find your local WeatherUnderground station and post the link up.

 

As for a forum ganging up, it only happens when someone is totally wrong, try the suggestions, see what works, it has to be better than your assumptions.

 

It is not possible. This is half the frustration ( the other half a combination of reading your determination this mould is a result of my house being structurally damp... when you haven't set one foot in it... & the ganging up which IS simoly forum " achilles heel" ways).

 

I have a cheap moisture meter. But this is clearly an inadequate tool. 
 

All I can do is give examples. Not just my house's new built extention. But other's houses nearby, bungalows etc. All of which therefore you are dismissing as being either lies, or factually untruths. 
 

If the same ultra-high-mould/ moisture-examples happen in my new built extention, dry as a bone, as it does bungalows opposite, terraced cottages 1/2 mile away, 1930's brick houses, in the next valley even.... I do not need you asking me to "proove it" ( I can't with the tool I have). This though IS PROOF ENOUGH. 
 

" has he put the heat in to rid the house damp yet the dummy?".. I'll still still still get these infuriating replies, saying I'm all wrong & their all correct, even after explaining till the cows come home!!!
 

 

[SteamyTea]

Just now, zoothorn said:

is not possible

Bet I can find one from your postcode.

[JohnMo]

So font of all knowledge, what is the answer to your question?  You have stated everything its not, those with years of building experience are all wrong.

 

Even these (links below) aren't talking any sense, talking about having consistent temperatures (to stop mould forming), cold walls, allowing moisture to form by condensation, then mould growing.

 

https://www.permagard.co.uk/advice/how-to-remove-mould-from-walls#:~:text=When warm moist air comes,are often the coldest surfaces.

 

https://www.oxford.gov.uk/info/20271/guidance_for_private_tenants/1129/preventing_damp_and_mould#:~:text=Mould is likely to occur,house that is too dry!

 

We are all intrigued to know the answer.

 

 

[ProDave]

@zoothorn what help do you want?  If you are certain the damp and mould is nothing to do with the building or how it is heated and ventilated, but everything to do with your local microclimate, then the only answer is to sell up and move house to a less damp climate?

 

My own take is you have a new extension attached to an old damp stone cottage, and unless there is an air tight seal between the old and new, then the inherent dampness will be in the air everywhere inside.

 

We have relatives in west Wales that live in a 300 year old stone farm house.  It is very damp and you smell damp as soon as you walk in (which oddly enough you get used to and stop smelling after a few days, so they will swear it does not smell damp)  And when it is very cold you see the condensation forming on the walls.  Re painting the bathroom is an annual task to try and keep it looking fresh etc.

[zoothorn]

My builder is coming here today, I popped my cowl off sweeping chimney. We will agree the extention isn't damp, of course we will (because of course...... it isn't).

 

Then,

 

(now the BCO visited yesterday & signing off the whole extention build, who of course didn't detect any damp in the new extention - because there isn't any unlike you're determined preposterousness stating that there is)

 

I can ask him about this mould. He will undoubtedly start by giving a way to fix it. Because that is what a builder does. Fixes & builds things. I will then say, somehow, I am needing to know NOT how to fix it, but WHY IT HAS OCCURED, IN THIS BUILD, AFTER SO SHORT A TIME, PRESUMING ( as is logical to ) THERE IS NOT REMAINING STRUCTURAL DAMP WITHIN THE BUILD. He'll still reply "you need a dehumidifier", or, " put the heating up more" which do not answer the question whatosoever. So I have to try, like I'm unable to with you, to get a reply to this question. Try somehow. I'm exhausted though as I'll still get "have you out the heating on yet?" ( because the question I'm actually asking is SO DAMN IMPOSSIBLE to answer (so forgive me: I don't actually blame you for these replies, they are attempting to be helpful, & they'll chime with my builder I just bet) but they'll still not actually be answers to my question I've been asking 45 times!
 

Thanks for reading, zh

[ProDave]

4 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I can ask him about this mould. He will undoubtedly start by giving a way to fix it. Because that is what a builder does.

Please tell us what he says?

 

It will no doubt roughly translate to "not our fault"

[SteamyTea]

Have you tried faith heeling, many claim it works.

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

@zoothorn what help do you want?  If you are certain the damp and mould is nothing to do with the building or how it is heated and ventilated, but everything to do with your local microclimate, then the only answer is to sell up and move house to a less damp climate?

 

My own take is you have a new extension attached to an old damp stone cottage, and unless there is an air tight seal between the old and new, then the inherent dampness will be in the air everywhere inside.

 

We have relatives in west Wales that live in a 300 year old stone farm house.  It is very damp and you smell damp as soon as you walk in (which oddly enough you get used to and stop smelling after a few days, so they will swear it does not smell damp)  And when it is very cold you see the condensation forming on the walls.  Re painting the bathroom is an annual task to try and keep it looking fresh etc.

Good reply ProDave. 
 

Firstly I'm not certain, this suggests its just me, WE ARE ALL MORE THAN CERTAIN... WE KNOW, BECAUSE WE LIVE WITH IT 24/7, 365 DAYS A YEAR). 
 

What I'm trying to establish, is what I should EXPECT. EXPECTATIONS. 
 

I have first time in my life, built a new extention. I do not know what to expect once it's built. Should I for example expect vermin to infest it, for ivy to penetrate the walls, & for excessive mould to form in only 18 months? I do not know the answers, because I have never been in a similar position before.

 

SO, I can only make rational judgements on what to expect. Vermin infeststion? no. Ivy? no. Excessive mould in only 18 months? no. 
 

If I built the thing leaving my lunch remnants each day discarded in the cavities, then if vermin infested it in 18 months... I'd have a rational reason for the vermin.
 

If I built the thing with inadequate materials cutting corners each day, around my french doors.... I'd have a rational reason for the mould.

 

But I didn't do so.

 

And if it's logical to assume the new extention hasn't either been built with damp inherrant within it ( BCO checked at stages during build.. & yesterday on completion, had no such concern), nor has subsequently had damp form within it's structure in only 18months ( again e BCO finalised it only yesterday, & it passed)...

 

 

... but if I get excessive mould & material damage, there HAS to be a reason for it. Has to be.

 

Suggesting the reason for it though, is "damp within the house", is utterly preposterous, infuriating, & frankly demeaning to my intelligence if it's only just been built.

 

But this is the only reason suggested. Time after time. By a collection of people too. It's just not rational, or logical. (Especially when I go on to explain the 70's bungalow opposite, & the 30's house (that I sensed not a jot of damp in either, visited both many times) ALL have exactly the same symptoms as me!! These eg's are discarded!!)

 

I thought early on yes I'd need to have to move, Ie explained this. But after 3 months my body attuned to this local 'thing', this need is no longer a proposition. We all choose to live with

it here. A caveat the sublime area counters. I'm just trying to show that without anyone suggesting any build-related-shortcomings of the way it was built (all ruled out afaict), then why, can only be the way left, for this to have occured. I didn't expect to be argued with tbh. Certainly not 'put the heat on to rid the house of the damp, dummy' answers.

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

22 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Have you tried faith heeling, many claim it works.

Suggesting this is psycho-symptomatic, but without actually saying so.

 

--

 

Given eg's ST. Other houses ST. The same symptoms ST.

 

Now you can suggest we're ALL just thinking this exists then, rather than it just doing so.

[zoothorn]

Anyway, back on board of the actual thread title..

 

Can someone tell me what to expect now; ok yesterday the BCO came, final inspection. Here for 5 mins(!). Happy with everything including balcony even complimentary about it. Knows the builder very well. So all boxes are finally ticked, I know only this much.
 

I showed him the electrician's docs he left me with. Off he goes. What now? Am I waiting for a letter, or email until which time it isn't signed off?

 

thanks, zoot

 

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

12 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Now you can suggest we're ALL just thinking this exists then, rather than it just doing so.

None of us are suggesting that the mould does not exists, all of us are giving the same reasons for its existence, except you.

 

I am now off to do a bit more work on my shelves.  They are put together by sticking pins into a wax effigy of Kwasi Kwarteng, while wishing he gets sacked.

Should work.

Edited October 14, 2022 by SteamyTea

[zoothorn]

Apologies for taking this thread off track, entirely my fault, & appreciate trying to offer advice.

 

Once I get this signed off, final-finally, I'll put the thread to bed.

 

 Thanks, zoot.

[Roundtuit]

10 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

  They are put together by sticking pins into a wax effigy of Kwasi Kwarteng, while wishing he gets sacked.

Should work.

F me!  You're good!  Can you do Liz next pls?

[zoothorn]

11 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

None of us are suggesting that the mould does not exists, all of us are giving the same reasons for its existence, except you.

 

I am now off to do a bit more work on my shelves.  They are put together by sticking pins into a wax effigy of Kwasi Kwarteng, while wishing he gets sacked.

Should work.

I know, but you're all saying the same cause: it's my house damp ST.

 

It isn't due to this. It cannot be due to this. It's not even logical to suggest this is the cause.

 

It could be if these new french doors were put into the old part of the house, I'd not bother even asking why there's such bad  mould formed in 18 months. THIS is what you believe/  Here is where you think these doors reside.

 

They are not anywhere near the old part of the house. They're at the very end of a new (dry) extension, joining onto the old part of the house

 

But again I'll just get same reply "put heat on to get rid of the house damp". Omg, it's these replies making me want the therapy!

[joe90]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

My own take is you have a new extension attached to an old damp stone cottage, and unless there is an air tight seal between the old and new, then the inherent dampness will be in the air everywhere inside.

Exactly what I said.

31 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

but if I get excessive mould & material damage, there HAS to be a reason for it. Has to be.

Correct, see above

32 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Suggesting the reason for it though, is "damp within the house", is utterly preposterous, infuriating, & frankly demeaning to my intelligence if it's only just been built.

No, see above.

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

your determination this mould is a result of my house being structurally damp... when you haven't set one foot in it... & the ganging up which IS simoly forum " achilles heel" ways).

See above, 

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

Regardless entirely, of what heater type is in this room, & when it's chosen to be on. The new build's material integrity is NOT NOT NOT dependent on the heating put in afterwards. It should remain --uncompromised--

Wrong, a new build uses gallons of water, plaster, concrete etc, as had been said before, any new build needs to dry out and this can take a year (and longer if connected to an old damp stone cottage) and this drying out takes HEAT.

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

You are simply determined to disagree with this post. Its not there to help, it's there to disagree with me. Collectively with others. This is what a forum just does ( agree with a group, against one person ).

Well of you don’t like the answers, from many here with considerable knowledge of the building industry, then why do you keep asking. If you think your builder knows better then ask him (mind, you did nothing but slate him off over his 300mm mistake).

[Radian]

10 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I know, but you're all saying the same cause: it's my house damp

Not your house fabric, your atmosphere.

Take a chilled glass of water from the fridge.

Put it on a table in your extension.

Look at the condensation forming on the outside of the glass.

Now think how warm the glass & contents would have to be for this not to happen.

Now think about the surface temperature of your door reveal.

[SteamyTea]

This tread is well worth a read if you want to find out why heating needs to be at the right level

 

 

[Onoff]

Apparently it is English! 😂

 

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Sturgeon?

 

Behave, there are limits!

 

[Adsibob]

10 hours ago, zoothorn said:

SO, I can only make rational judgements on what to expect.

But reading your posts, they don’t seem very rational. You have said it is nothing to do with the heating, and maybe you are right. But you have not explored other factors in any meaningful way.
i do think you need to experiment with a few humidity readings in the building (both the extension and the original house), record some data over a week, then if humidity is higher than about 49% hire some dehumifiers and get it right down to 35% and keep it at that humidity level for at least a week. Meanwhile, remove all mould, airtight and insulate the house and install MVHR. Once that’s all done, switch the MVHR on and return the dehumidifiers to the hire shop. That’s what we did with a 95 year old very damp house and it worked.

 

 If you can’t do that, then either do what you can and accept there will be some mould, or sell up and buy somewhere less mouldy.