wils77 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Hi I wonder if someone could give me any pointers before I start seeking further help I have applied for planning permission for an extension to our new home (Moved in around 6 months ago). The design scheme shows us adding a new gate were a old gate previously stood. Unsure when the previous gate was removed but the gate stone ends are still in situ along with the metal work into the stone. I would guess several years ago the gate as been removed Some of neighbours hav gates in similar proximity to the highway Planning as been refused on the grounds that the new gate is within 5 metres of the highway and they have asked that I build a new wall 5metres up my drive to house the new gate Any use in appealing as I'm replacing a historical gate or do I need to build the wall ? Thanks' in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 What fills the hole now in place of the gate? On the basis the gate pre existed, I would put the gate back now, and re submit with the plans marked "existing gate" and appeal if they continue to be stupid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wils77 Posted August 25, 2022 Author Share Posted August 25, 2022 Hi Nothing hangs on the fixings now but the fixings protrude from the stone ends. Goggle street view from a several years ago shows a gate in its place. There is clearly been a gate in this position previously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 Ok so basically re-instate the gates now, and use Google to provide the evidence. Unless there was a reason for removal I am not quite sure why it would be an issue, especially as this isn't a new build but an extension. Odd for highways to be consulted tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 or move the gate 5 meters down the drive (if practical) so when a vehicle is waiting to enter its not causing an obstruction. Depends on the road category as to if this thinking applies. Good luck M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 Are they thinking road safety and the need to pull off the road? Is it a classified road? Any new policies in that area? Would a powered gate help? What happened to the old one? Alternatively you could replace the gate and call it "maintenance / repair". I would probably do this, and not consult them at all. Then consider applying for a Cert for Lawful devlopment if planning have kittens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 I do not see how planning get involved as it’s only an extension and the drive exists, forget the gates (and instal them after you have finished 🤔) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 Sounds more of a ‘ highways ‘ issues . Check with them . Planning are (expletive deleted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 19 minutes ago, pocster said: Sounds more of a ‘ highways ‘ issues . Check with them . Planning are (expletive deleted) Yes but it exists!!!!, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, joe90 said: Yes but it exists!!!!, Got ya . My point was if highways have no issues ( which we assume they don’t ) then wtf is wrong with planning ? Edited August 25, 2022 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 35 minutes ago, pocster said: then wtf is wrong with planning ? Do you want the short answer or the long one 🤯 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 Just now, joe90 said: Do you want the short answer or the long one 🤯 I always like a long one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wils77 Posted August 25, 2022 Author Share Posted August 25, 2022 Hi all Highways have objected on these grounds; Access The application proposes to extend the dwelling and provide ne fencing and gates to the front of the dwelling. The fencing will follow the line of the existing boundary which will be acceptable, however, the application also proposes to provide a sliding vehicle gate which will not be acceptable. Drawing T1162 - PL04 Proposed Site Plan shows the gates located approximately 1m back from the rear of the footway requiring vehicles entering or leaving the site to wait on Barnsley Road while the gates are opened of closed affecting the free flow of traffic and causing an obstruction to the detriment of highway safety. Gates should be located 5m back from the adopted highway to allow vehicles to wait off the highway. Please note the following points below: My response to this was * photos of the hinges still on the stone pillars. * Most of the neighbours have existing gates level with the front boundary wall (none being electric) *The plans are for an electric gate, I would be adding a GSM module unit which will allow us to open the gate from anywhere. * There is no parking restriction on the road immediately outside the property and ample parking positions are available. - sent photos to support showing the width of the road and cars parked * The main road is a good width and is used frequently for parking. *I have attached photos illustrating the vehicles parked all the way up the road leaving ample room for vehicles travelling up and down the road and not causing an obstruction. If the gates were not open for a visitor, they would park on the opposite side of the adjacent to the gates and access the property via the pedestrian gate. Highways have then come back with; The applicant has provided photos of gate pillars bearing hinges, however, these are historic and will therefore not be acceptable as mitigation for the current proposal. I would therefore retain the requirement for gates to be located 5m back from the adopted highway to allow vehicles to wait off the highway. The applicant states that parking is available outside the site and that the gates will be opened and closed remotely, however, the future maintenance and operation of the gates and the availability of parking on Barnsley Road cannot be guaranteed and I would therefore retain a highway objection and recommendation for refusal. At the risk of holding the whole development up I have then removed the gates from the plans submitted and hopefully highways will lift there objection so I can start on the actual building work. Due to having small children and my driveway being open straight onto a road I require a gate. To have a gate 5m up my driveway would require me to more or less rebuild more whole front wall. Thoughts ? * Her main point is the gates are historic but I'm unable to find any official planning guidance on this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 It's either 1 - Engage in an argument which you may win or lose, and is guaranteed to take up time. 2 - Reinstall now, and keep quiet, and hope no one notices. Leave it off the PA. 3 - Reinstall later, if lack of security is not a problem. Leave it off the PA. In cases 2 and 3 just be prepared to move them 5m back if smoeone fusses. The best route would have to have just done it before your planning app - you have now told them they aren't there. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wils77 Posted August 25, 2022 Author Share Posted August 25, 2022 @Ferdinand "The best route would have to have just done it before your planning app - you have now told them they aren't there" exactly my thoughts but neither me or the architect foresaw a problem, hindsight 🤷♂️ I can find no legal guidance on the matter. There was a gate but due it's poor state it was removed. A period of time as passed and I want to put a similar type of gate back in the same position. I'm thinking a combination of the aforementioned options. Maybe test the water with a cheap as chips gate which will remain open at all times if no one comes running with an enforcement notice install the electric gate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundtuit Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 I can't recall all of the details, but someone local to us renewed their front fence, and put a sliding gate within a couple of metres of the road. I think they had to apply for retrospective PP, and highways objected on similar grounds ie. vehicles waiting on the road. They countered with some bull$hit about them being remote controlled, so could be opened on the approach of a vehicle in enough time to avoid obstructing the road. I'd have made them take the gate off, but it worked for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 I would put in a couple of timber gate posts and cheap gates 5m back from the original ones with a bit of fencing either side to meet their objection and to keep your kids safe, when the extension is finished and signed off do what you want with the original 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 17 hours ago, wils77 said: At the risk of holding the whole development up I have then removed the gates from the plans submitted and hopefully highways will lift there objection so I can start on the actual building work 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 Just resubmit and leave the entrance as existing. You can later install gates without seeking further consent. Highways can be sticklers for these things but their only point of power will be to object to the application and they cannot do this if the access is unchanged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 +1 just resubmit without a gate. Add gate later. Collect photos/evidence showing the height of previous gates as this might become an issue if your new ones are over 1m high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wils77 Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 On 26/08/2022 at 13:54, Mr Punter said: Just resubmit and leave the entrance as existing. You can later install gates without seeking further consent. Highways can be sticklers for these things but their only point of power will be to object to the application and they cannot do this if the access is unchanged. Can I actually just install gates without consent ? - The previous gate have been removed for a period of time and I'm guessing they may argue that it has been changed ? 22 hours ago, Temp said: +1 just resubmit without a gate. Add gate later. Collect photos/evidence showing the height of previous gates as this might become an issue if your new ones are over 1m high. Yep it will be over 1m but the previous one was over 1m.. I'm leaning towards making putting some timber gates on and testing the water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 24 minutes ago, wils77 said: Can I actually just install gates without consent ? - The previous gate have been removed for a period of time and I'm guessing they may argue that it has been changed ? I suspect if they have been gone years they will say you need planing permission as over 1m high. If they have only been gone months you could argue they were being replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/213548/new-gates-can-this-be-right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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