Reducing Energy Bills - How goes it?

[Carrerahill]

12 hours ago, pilgrim said:

Im currently using about £3 a month electric, (because im still renovating just use the kettle and powertools!)

So you know what you must do, stay in the renovating phase for as long as possible and your bills will be cheap! 

[Radian]

12 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Cripes were you spending £700 a mouth on energy.

 

 

Not quite that bad. Up until April when our fixed rate tariff ended, those figures are 2.3 times more than we paid. However, the graph showing £700 for Jan would be true for our current tariff. Still, we actually paid £300 which is alarming enough. What didn't help was having a 2kW convector keeping my workshop at a constant 15C to measure then heat loss (as an experiment).

[SteamyTea]

34 minutes ago, Radian said:

What didn't help was having a 2kW convector keeping my workshop at a constant 15C to measure then heat loss (as an experiment).

(expletive deleted)ing hell, I get the university to pay for those kinds of experiments.

Was the conclusion to wear a wetsuit when cold (once cycled 4 miles in a 6mm full length wetsuit in January).

[Wil]

Sheesh, my Elec bill was over £500 in January… 😞 that was before the price rises.

[SteamyTea]

15 minutes ago, Wil said:

my Elec bill was over £500 in January

Should be easy to reduce that.

Do you know where it is going?

[Wil]

Yup my heat pumps (mostly):

 

3MWh overall, 2MWh roughly on heating, 0.25MWh on car charging and .75MWh on the rest of life…

 

 

 

 

Total above, HPs IVT18 Left IVT26 right. You can see where I experimented in late Jan with running the 26 as primary…

Edited June 10, 2022 by Wil

[ProDave]

For those suffering insomnia and need something to send you to sleep, some of my figures:

 

 

The readings I take each week go in columns B, C, D, K and M.  The rest are calculated from those figures.

 

The odd figures at the bottom in row 200 are the total of each of those columns for the last 12 months.

 

It's that pesky stubborn 75kWh non heating use each week I need to work on, which goes up in winter probably because there's less PV to offset it.

[SteamyTea]

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

It's that pesky stubborn 75kWh non heating use each week I need to work on

That does seem quite high.  Do you use an electric oven a lot?

[Radian]

4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

That does seem quite high.  Do you use an electric oven a lot?

My tall fridge + two vertically stacked under-counter sized freezers consume around 32kWh per week. Add in 3kWh per day for the oven and that's already 53kWh. Easy to push that to 70kWh with, say 100W 24/7 vampire load from WiFi, TV, Sat etc. Not much scope for reduction if you've got to cook for and feed a family.

[ProDave]

8 minutes ago, Radian said:

My tall fridge + two vertically stacked under-counter sized freezers consume around 32kWh per week. Add in 3kWh per day for the oven and that's already 53kWh. Easy to push that to 70kWh with, say 100W 24/7 vampire load from WiFi, TV, Sat etc. Not much scope for reduction if you've got to cook for and feed a family.

I suspect the FF might be a big part of that.  About 2kWh per day for treatment plant and MVHR it soon adds up.

 

I am guilty of leaving stuff on standby, e.g. televisions.  The satellite box is on a timer so is off over night and part of the day.  Yes electric oven used most days.   Washing machine and tumble dryer used most days and dishwasher every other day, they are used in the daytime so solar PV should power some of that load depending on the weather.  That is likely a major part of why the non heating use goes up in winter.

[SteamyTea]

20 minutes ago, Radian said:

My tall fridge + two vertically stacked under-counter sized freezers consume around 32kWh per week

So around 1.6 MWh/year.  That seems extremely high, pulling nearly 200W, on average.

Out old mate @Ed Davies an myself worked out that my cheap (£100 Currys bargain) fridge pulls a mean of 5W, and his was 8W.

I would seriously look at them.

I have a small router, 3 RPis plugged in, fridge, 4 digital timers/switches, alarm clock and my laptop permanently plugged in, first full week of June, 69% of the time I was not drawing any power (well less than 1Wh).

Even at the time of heavy load i.e. when heating up my hot water for the day, 29% of that time I am not drawing power at all from anywhere.

 

	Mean Power from Wednesday 01/06/2022 up to Wednesday 08/06/2022	Maximum Power from Wednesday 01/06/2022 up to Wednesday 08/06/2022	Percentage Zero Power from Wednesday 01/06/2022 up to Wednesday 08/06/2022, Mean 69%	Mean Room Temperature Wednesday 01/06/2022 up to Wednesday 08/06/2022
Hour	Mean Power / 0.1 kW, Percentage E7 / 78 %, Total Energy 22.4 kWh, Day Energy 4.9 kWh, Night Energy 17.5 kWh	Max Power / 3.2 kW	Mean Percentage Zero Power / 69%	Mean Room Temperature / 21.4 °C
0	0.0	2.3	78	21.3
1	0.1	2.3	69	20.8
2	0.2	2.4	63	20.6
3	0.2	2.9	75	20.4
4	1.5	2.9	29	20.2
5	0.3	3.2	70	20.1
6	0.2	2.8	55	20.0
7	0.1	2.2	62	20.6
8	0.0	2.1	64	21.2
9	0.0	0.4	79	21.8
10	0.0	0.1	82	22.0
11	0.0	0.1	78	22.0
12	0.0	2.2	76	21.9
13	0.1	2.2	64	21.9
14	0.1	2.3	68	22.0
15	0.0	2.1	77	22.0
16	0.0	2.2	66	22.0
17	0.0	0.1	79	22.0
18	0.0	0.1	81	21.9
19	0.0	0.1	81	21.8
20	0.0	0.1	84	21.7
21	0.1	2.2	73	21.6
22	0.1	2.5	50	21.6
23	0.0	0.1	61	21.6

 

 

Here is my coldest week numbers as daily means.

 

	Mean Energy Usage from Tuesday 01/02/2022 up to Tuesday 08/02/2022	Mean Room Temperature from Tuesday 01/02/2022 up to Tuesday 08/02/2022	Mean External Temperature from Tuesday 01/02/2022 up to Tuesday 08/02/2022
	Mean Daily Energy Usage 14.6/kWh, Total Weekly Energy 102.5/kWh	Mean Room Temperature 17.1°C	Mean External Temperature 10.5°C
Monday	14.8	17.1	10.5
Tuesday	20.9	19.8	10.5
Wednesday	18.6	19.8	10.6
Thursday	18.2	19.9	10.9
Friday	20.4	19.7	10.5
Saturday	3.5	17.8	10.5
Sunday	6.1	16.6	10.3

Edited June 10, 2022 by SteamyTea

[Radian]

16 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

So around 1.6 MWh/year.  That seems extremely high, pulling nearly 200W, on average.

Out old mate @Ed Davies an myself worked out that my cheap (£100 Currys bargain) fridge pulls a mean of 5W, and his was 8W.

I would seriously look at them.

Those figures are impressively low. Damned if I can find a figure for an A-rated fridge but an A-rated fridge-freezer is around 25W average by comparison.

 

Our freezer compressors are 80W and the fridge is around 120W when running which seems pretty typical for their age from googling around. But the duty factor is relatively high...

 

That's all three logged yesterday via a single power metering device. Lousy PF. Good job we're not billed on VA.

Kitchen was mostly around 23C yesterday. In the winter the DF goes down a bit, more like 140W daily average with a 20C ambient. Insulation is presumably better these days.

 

I was was reading that an average fridge-freezer unit from the earlier 1990s could use over 1,000 kWh in a year. Ours date from the turn of the millenium so are a little better than that.

 

Someone around here posted links to a wonderful website listing various new appliances by power consumption - a European site I seem to recall. Thought I'd bookmarked it but can't find it now.

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, Radian said:

European site I seem to recall

The Brexiteers have blocked it. They say it is interfering with you choice.

They recommend roadkill Bamby kept in a PPE powered Lucas fridge.

 

(The old automotive joke about warm beer)

[Radian]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

The Brexiteers have blocked it. They say it is interfering with you choice.

They recommend roadkill Bamby kept in a PPE powered Lucas fridge.

 

(The old automotive joke about warm beer)

Oh yes. Lucas automotive products 🤮

Found the appliance comparison site: topten

[ProDave]

On 10/06/2022 at 16:58, ProDave said:

 

It's that pesky stubborn 75kWh non heating use each week I need to work on, which goes up in winter probably because there's less PV to offset it.

So since I posted that comment, for the last week I  have been turning the main television off at the plug (and it's surround sound system) when not in use.  And this weeks "non heating" use is down to 67kWh, so 8kWh down.  To early to say if that reduction is all down to the tv on standby or something else, but I will continue the trial to see.  I have now extended this test to the other big tv and it's surround sound system also turned properly off when not in use.

[MikeSharp01]

Them pesky parasitic loads - they critters have got to go.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Them pesky parasitic loads - they critters have got to go.

What I work so hard on.

 

Here is some basic stats for the 01/06/2022

Data points 11,566 (~7.5 seconds)

Zero power draw count 8,364 (72% of data points)

Mean power 113 W

 

Total Day Usage 2.7 kWh

 

Proper job.

[MikeSharp01]

8 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Total Day Usage 2.7 kWh

RESPECT

[SteamyTea]

22 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

9 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Total Day Usage 2.7 kWh

RESPECT

Thank you.

 

World energy use per person is about 2 kW.  48 kWh a day.

This is obviously too high because of our dominant combustion technologies. And household usage is only a small part of primary energy usage, though, along with personal transport, the ones we notice the most as we are directly paying for it.

Come winter my usage will go up to a mean of 665 W, 16 kWh/day.

Too high for my liking, so this years house modifications are to add 'winter' secondary glazing, fix the back door that has visible gaps (fixed the front door last year), and find how air is travelling to a socket in the living room (been throwing out 2 decades of 'loft rubbish).

When I first moved here, and being used to a crappy combi gas boiler in my old Victorian house, I did not pay much attention to energy use (even though I was studying it at university).  My first full year usage was ~11 MWh/year.

Whittled that down to under 5 MWh quite easily, to get to under 4 MWh has been difficult, but getting rid of parasitic loads has made a major contribution to that.

I would like to get down to 3 MWh/year without spending a fortune, and having a house that is comfortable enough.

 

Interestingly my motoring has followed a similar path, going from an old petrol automatic what was dreadful on fuel around town ~30 MPG, to a turbo diesel manual that consistently does over 50 MPG around town, 65 MPG on an upcounry run.  I am not too bothered about what sort of car I have, as long as it is reliable, so shall have to give that some thought as mine has done over 200kmile and is making strange knocking noises from the front suspension.

[AliG]

14 hours ago, ProDave said:

So since I posted that comment, for the last week I  have been turning the main television off at the plug (and it's surround sound system) when not in use.  And this weeks "non heating" use is down to 67kWh, so 8kWh down.  To early to say if that reduction is all down to the tv on standby or something else, but I will continue the trial to see.  I have now extended this test to the other big tv and it's surround sound system also turned properly off when not in use.

I got a WiFi plug so I can check standby usage of different devices. A TV really should be using less than 1W on standby, I haven't seen one above that in a long time.

 

However, audio equipment seems to be pretty poor in comparison. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the surround sound system, depending on how it is set up it may not go easily into a low power mode. Mine uses a lot of power. When I looked into it most amps only have around 50% efficiency, so it uses a crazy amount of power when it is running. More efficient amps are very very expensive.

 

The other device that I found was heavy on standby consumption was an old Wii that we have, seems to use 10-20W on standby.

[SteamyTea]

A permanent 1 W load (8.76 kWh/year) costs  @28p/kWh, about £2.50 a year.

About 3 days summer usage for me.

 

Had a carbon footprint of around 2.5 kg CO₂.

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by SteamyTea

[JohnMo]

Been making mods to my DHW system.  Combi boiler, but has a buffer with DHW coil upstream, with solar PV immersion.  Plan was in summer no gas usage as the buffer would be hot enough and pre heated water would pass straight through the boiler.  But that didn't work very well.  Every time I opened a hot water tap, the cold slug of water between the buffer and combi would cause the combi to fire up, so was using a couple of kWh of gas every day even with a buffer at 60 degC.

 

So installed on of these

 

https://wattswater.eu/catalog/safety-control-accessories-for-heating/valves-for-solar-applications/thermostatic-kit-solarkit/

 

Now using no gas.

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

However, audio equipment seems to be pretty poor in comparison. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the surround sound system, depending on how it is set up it may not go easily into a low power mode. Mine uses a lot of power.

Yes one thing I noticed, and have now fixed, was that the sub Woofer on our big system was plugged in to a socket away from the main unit so was left on standby all the time even though I was diligently turning off the main unit, DVD player etc. I only notices when I fell asleep one evening listening to some music, it was dark when I woke up and wondered what the dull green glow was coming from the far side of the room.

[Ferdinand]

On 10/06/2022 at 22:18, Radian said:

My tall fridge + two vertically stacked under-counter sized freezers consume around 32kWh per week. Add in 3kWh per day for the oven and that's already 53kWh. Easy to push that to 70kWh with, say 100W 24/7 vampire load from WiFi, TV, Sat etc. Not much scope for reduction if you've got to cook for and feed a family.

 

For fridges the estimated power consumption is part of the published technical information. And as they run 24x7 it should be a reliable estimate.

 

I don't think you will find an A-rated fridge (wine cooles only afaics). The scales have been redefined to (I think) get rid of A++++ and similar? An old A is a new D.

 

But scooting over to Appliances Direct, and looking at a D rated 390l fridge and E rated 230l vertical freezer, I get energy usages of 78 kWh and 154kWh per annum. That fridge is an improvement over my 6-7 year oldie, and the freezer is a small improvement.

 

(Both Appliacecs Direct and Currys have energy rating in their range of filters.)

 

These are the not altogether cheap models (£1100- and £1000- 🙂 ) - Liebherr.

https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/kef4330/liebherr-kef4330-freestanding-fridge

https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/gn3735/liebherr-gn3735-comfort-freestanding-freezer 

 

On your 32kWh per week = 1650 kWh per annum, your extra usage is 1400 kWh per annum, which at 30p per unit is £465 potenital saving per annum. That will cover in short order your extra costs for a top end fridge and freezer over slumming it with a Bosch or Samsung, even if optimistic) !

 

But I note that Appliances Direct have a number of refurbed big Liebherr fridges at £750 here (30% off):

https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/a2%2fkef4330/liebherr-a2kef4330--freestanding-fridge

 

So I'd recommend a look at that, or the full price version. I got a Liebharr ex-showroom model Fridge-Freezer combo, and I would now happily pay the full price if it ever needs replacing. Worth their weight in bubbles.

 

I'd say it might be time for a new fridge and freezer.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

[Radian]

22 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

I'd say it might be time for a new fridge and freezer.

 

You're right about that. Have already set my sights on a Siemens iQ500 for starters. It's an integrated larder fridge rated at 115 kWh/annum.