Conor Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Even though I'm disappointed in the airtest result of 1.8 (the thermohouse roof panel system is NOT airtight, despite what they say!), I'm happy enough. First time seeing an EPC with no potential improvements! We hit the passive House heat requirement target but not the airtightness so certification not an option. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 well done. shame about the airtightness though as you say. did you tape the **** out of it? 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Congrats, I briefly contemplated getting my SAP A EPC printed out mega big and stuck to the side of the house like a new fridge. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Well done. Much the same for us, our air tightness was 1.4 though we could find no particular leak. I was disappointed but the tester was nearly wetting himself with excitement at how good it was. We achieved an A94 so you beat us. But it is a smug feeling having an EPC A and no improvements suggested. In spite of SAP supposed to be accurate, it still managed to estimate out heating load as way more than practice actually says, and in fact in that respect Jeremy's simple heat loss spreadsheet was more accurate. Our EPC A is printed and on the wall next to the consumer unit. I think our BC inspector at completion remarked it was the first EPC A he had seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 We also managed an A, but was suggested I install a wind turbine at an estimate cost of £15 to 25k to give an A104. No! Loads more solar would be better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Thorfun said: well done. shame about the airtightness though as you say. did you tape the **** out of it? 😉 We taped and painted everything in the entire house... Except the roof panels. They were interlocked and glued with foam. But thats where all the leakage is. Nothing at all for. The walls or Windows, but huge air flow through the ceiling openings on the first floor. Will email the sap guy and see if a better air test result would make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 17 minutes ago, Conor said: Will email the sap guy and see if a better air test result would make a difference. You could put the data into Jeremy's spreadsheet. I found it very useful to see the difference the airtightness gives. you might be surprised how much difference it makes but, then again, life might be a little too short to bother! I've no doubt your house will be very energy efficient and warm which is the ultimate goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 I not exactly sure how SAP works, but we got A118. I assume thats due to PV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dan F said: I not exactly sure how SAP works, but we got A118. I assume thats due to PV? that basically means your PV generates more power than the house uses each year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 6 hours ago, JohnMo said: suggested I install a wind turbine There are still advisors out there who think that? The SBEM and Breeam calculations are full of such nonsense, but I thought real people knew better by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Laslett Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 15 hours ago, Conor said: We taped and painted everything in the entire house... Except the roof panels. They were interlocked and glued with foam. But thats where all the leakage is. Conor, I’m really sorry to hear that. I am gutted for you. The 2018 Thermohouse house technical manual and construction detail both show that all the roof joints need to be taped for airtightness. Very frustrating that they should give misleading advice and ignore their own manual and NSAI certificate. I am torn with going through the hassle and expense of priming and taping all these joints, or actually having the roof boards internally rendered as our bedrooms are in the roof. I don’t want to appear that I am defending Thermohouse. This is their mistake. For others that find this post here are the relevant details from Thermohouse. 2018 Technical Manual, Page 108, Section 4.2 General Provisions. (Section 4.0 Thermoroof) ”Jointing tape should then be installed over the complete junction to ensure air tightness.” There is a drawing on page 133, Annex 13 – 2. The NSAI certificate for the roofing system has pretty much the same text in section 2.4.4 General provisions. But the drawing shows the tape but doesn’t label it. This is not really detailed enough, and leaves a lot to be desired. I went and got the construction detail from the website, which is from 2010 and not that great, see attached. Finally there is the Fixing Table, document THR-019 also on the website, also from 2010 which indicates that the airstop tape was supplied with the roof panel. The updated fixing table in the 2018 manual leaves this item off the table. Thermohouse could claim that the improvements in PU foam negate the need for airtightness tape. But at one time they thought it was required as detailed across various documents. THR-009a(Plasterboard)Cross Section.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babak Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) On 08/06/2022 at 09:45, Nick Laslett said: Conor, I’m really sorry to hear that. I am gutted for you. The 2018 Thermohouse house technical manual and construction detail both show that all the roof joints need to be taped for airtightness. Very frustrating that they should give misleading advice and ignore their own manual and NSAI certificate. I am torn with going through the hassle and expense of priming and taping all these joints, or actually having the roof boards internally rendered as our bedrooms are in the roof. I don’t want to appear that I am defending Thermohouse. This is their mistake. For others that find this post here are the relevant details from Thermohouse. 2018 Technical Manual, Page 108, Section 4.2 General Provisions. (Section 4.0 Thermoroof) ”Jointing tape should then be installed over the complete junction to ensure air tightness.” There is a drawing on page 133, Annex 13 – 2. The NSAI certificate for the roofing system has pretty much the same text in section 2.4.4 General provisions. But the drawing shows the tape but doesn’t label it. This is not really detailed enough, and leaves a lot to be desired. I went and got the construction detail from the website, which is from 2010 and not that great, see attached. Finally there is the Fixing Table, document THR-019 also on the website, also from 2010 which indicates that the airstop tape was supplied with the roof panel. The updated fixing table in the 2018 manual leaves this item off the table. Thermohouse could claim that the improvements in PU foam negate the need for airtightness tape. But at one time they thought it was required as detailed across various documents. THR-009a(Plasterboard)Cross Section.pdf 111.47 kB · 1 download Agreed, TH should be more open and upfront about their roofing system so the work that needs to be done is planned in advance. We have used aluminium tape over most of the panel joins internally. To top that off we are using double foiled bubble wrap as an extra layer of insulation and barrier before plaster boarding. I think if we do not do this there would be a very high risk of condensation through small gaps between panels where glue may not have been applied. To illustrate, we had a LOT of water coming in after the panels were set up. Huge amounts were due to dormers edges, which were formed by cutting the panels and glueing them together, not being fully water tight (and hence not air tight). But a couple of places we could actually see light coming in from the sky where there were no dormers. Just panels not being put up properly. We wised up to this only because we read the technical manual and had water ingress early on. The installation was done by TH, so we could easily have missed it had we relied on them fully. But also bear in mind you can lose air through door and window reveals not being properly sealed…. See the videos below for fun! We only managed to stop the leaks once the roof membrane was fully on, no amount of PU foaming inside or out was working. Fortunately there was enough rain in May and and June to realise we had an issue!! IMG_1421.MOV Edited August 11, 2022 by Babak 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee33 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 How are you guys finding the Thermoroof (and Thermohouse in general) a year on from previous posts in this thread? Any issues such as leaks, condensation etc? also what are the acoustic dampening levels like compared alternatives like blown in cellulose, sips etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 Not a bother with it. Cant hear a thing during heavy rain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 Might add, ceilings below are vaulted and we have counterbattened the underside - 25x50mm running across the panels, then 50x50mm running over to give the service void. 5hink this goes someway to dampening sounds as forms partial airgap. You'll need at least one batten if you are boarding to corm a finished ceiling. Also be mindful of max span, something like 3.6m. We were about 4.2m span so had to build in a "collar ladder" for strength. Detailed in the documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee33 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Conor said: Might add, ceilings below are vaulted and we have counterbattened the underside - 25x50mm running across the panels, then 50x50mm running over to give the service void. 5hink this goes someway to dampening sounds as forms partial airgap. You'll need at least one batten if you are boarding to corm a finished ceiling. Also be mindful of max span, something like 3.6m. We were about 4.2m span so had to build in a "collar ladder" for strength. Detailed in the documents. Did you create a void at the apex to run the lighting, mvhr (assuming you have it) etc through? So there’s no need for ridge beams etc with this system? (if it falls under certain spans) Edited August 21, 2023 by Lee33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 48 minutes ago, Lee33 said: Did you create a void at the apex to run the lighting, mvhr (assuming you have it) etc through? So there’s no need for ridge beams etc with this system? (if it falls under certain spans) We had ridge beams. The collar ladder formed our drop ceiling which took all our services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 is this old regs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Dave Jones said: is this old regs ? Yes, NI, so a bit different from England/Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee33 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 On 21/08/2023 at 18:16, Conor said: We had ridge beams. The collar ladder formed our drop ceiling which took all our services. Ahh I see now, looks good, from what I’ve seen I’m impressed with the whole Thermohouse system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 12 hours ago, Conor said: Yes, NI, so a bit different from England/Wales. probably be a C / B on the new regs, they much harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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