How to wire my renovation

[saveasteading]

47 minutes ago, ProDave said:

so far ONE is in use.

If you had installed just one, would it have been in that  room?

 

[Roys]

I installed a cat5 to every room, two to the office, I use 3 of them, one for the tv virgin box in living room, one for the tv virgin box in bedroom and one to the computer in office. The signal is definitely a lot less flakey than the WiFi.

[Radian]

I wish I had ethernet in every room... for the PoE if nothing else. It recently struck me that it would be a doddle to set up a solar PV charged 48V battery system to power all the distributed processing that sucks up so much of my base load. A few DC-DC converters to run things like WiFi routers and Raspberry Pi's would knock around 200 Watts off my base load and provide inherent UPS.

 

I'm slowly forming the opinion that instead of expensive multi-kWh battery banks, a network of smaller energy storage solutions like the above might be the way forward. If nothing else it kills the gigantic up-front cost of a power-wall like product.

[Gone West]

16 hours ago, reddal said:

When building a house - you can never put too many runs of CAT 5/6 in.

We didn't install any Cat cable in our timber frame new build and didn't regret it. We used WiFi without any problems.

[jack]

We have cabling to all TV points in the house. We did use wireless before I got everything terminated, and suffered the usual occasional loss of connection (need to reconnect by putting in password, etc). Solid as a rock since we moved to wired.

 

Same with my kids' Xbox.

 

The worst offenders are printers. I've always had problems with the connection reliability of wireless printers. Hard wiring them makes the experience a lot more pleasant.

[FrankHouse]

This has all been really helpful. I'm keen on installing infrastructure now even though I know some of it will be unused but I never want to take a wall down again. all of my plumbing is point to point so no reason wiring shouldn't be as well.

 

I'm going to run all of my lighting back to the plant room. every switch point will be wired back as well with three core and earth so it can be rewired in any way I want later or be a thermostat location.

 

for sockets I may install smart plugs but off normal radials or rings as needed.

 

I'll run multiple ethernet cables to each location as that was already my plan and I have the cable.

 

I am now wondering if I should run a control cable around the switch points... if I do there are competing standards, knx, dmx, ethernet to each point. I think I might just leave this out as no matter what I do it will probably by wrong!

[SteamyTea]

13 hours ago, Radian said:

A few DC-DC converters to run things like WiFi routers and Raspberry Pi's would knock around 200 Watts off my base load and provide inherent UPS.

200 W.  How many things you got running?

 

13 hours ago, Radian said:

a network of smaller energy storage solutions like the above might be the way forward.

I have often thought this.  Why I think every house should have a 0.5 to 1 Wh or storage and a small BMS/Inverter.  Mass produced, probably only cost £200.  Just plug them into a spare socket and over the whole country there would be 30 GWh of flexible storage.  If power deliver was 250W, that is 7.5 GW of capacity for 4 hours.  A useful amount.

[joth]

8 minutes ago, FrankHouse said:

I am now wondering if I should run a control cable around the switch points... if I do there are competing standards, knx, dmx, ethernet to each point. I think I might just leave this out as no matter what I do it will probably by wrong!

All those standards (and Loxone Tree) run fine over CAT6 so you'll be fine if you put that in to each switch. 

I used CAT6A purely for larger cores meaning lower voltage drop on 24V power delivery (and also it's a bit more robust for the contractors pulling it through) but I'm sure that was overkill.

 

I was originally going to do T&E to each switch point too, but in the end dropped it as I was going all in with home automation. If anyone wanted to convert to dumb lighting in future they'd just have to rack up a couple dozen SSRs in the cabinet.

 

[FrankHouse]

49 minutes ago, joth said:

All those standards (and Loxone Tree) run fine over CAT6 so you'll be fine if you put that in to each switch. 

I used CAT6A purely for larger cores meaning lower voltage drop on 24V power delivery (and also it's a bit more robust for the contractors pulling it through) but I'm sure that was overkill.

 

I was originally going to do T&E to each switch point too, but in the end dropped it as I was going all in with home automation. If anyone wanted to convert to dumb lighting in future they'd just have to rack up a couple dozen SSRs in the cabinet.

 

I'll go with that for want of another option then. its less than a reel and hopefully means I am as prepped as I can be for whatever comes... 

 

feels nice to have made a decision!

[joth]

3 hours ago, FrankHouse said:

I'll go with that for want of another option then. its less than a reel and hopefully means I am as prepped as I can be for whatever comes... 

 

feels nice to have made a decision!

Awesome.

Tips: 

If you can get U/FTP CAT6 it maybe worth it as the shielding between pairs _may_ help if you run multiple protocols to the switches down one cable (e.g. knx and 1-wire on different pairs) but again it's 99% overkill.

Also if you use green jacket for this cable it looks like knx or Tree cable which I thought I cute wheeze, and clearly sets it apart from any other ethernet cables. 

[Rob99]

+1 for Loxone, I have it at home and have helped others to install it. Despite what some may tell you, it's very straightforward to do as a DIY install and several members here have done it at a much lower cost than getting an installer in.

 

I agree with much of what's been said so far and echo the view to avoid non-standard wiring like the plague as you'll regret it later. If you wire cat6 and mains back to a central location you're probably covered for most control scenarios.

[FrankHouse]

Thanks,

 

I think I am convinced about a star wiring layout now and putting in cat 6 as a loop upstairs and downstairs. I'm wiring it all to a terminal box so it can be jumpers back to standard if required.

 

I think I have convinced myself that the shelly wired switch modules are what I am going to use and the wireless dimmers on a local wireless network just for them. The seem like the knx route to have some distributed intelligence which I like but without the knx module and software cost. Also they have a Web interface so I can use that to start before switching over to my own centralised controller as I have time

 

The only reason I don't like the other solutions is the lack of control as I like to be independent and not tied to any specific supplier. I hear what you ar saying about dealers being available i just dont have the bandwidth to deal with at the mlment. that being said if a replacement came along I would just swap out the switching box for a different solution. 

 

 

[joth]

On 29/04/2022 at 07:33, FrankHouse said:

 

I have seen mention of that but also mention that they don't want DIY any more.

 

I'll look at what I need to add to try and do both. Lexonne scares me as a sole supplier and I hate the way term's change over time. for example my Google photos are nearly full now and they want a fee which wasn't the case for years and years...

 

So Loxone are back selling direct to consumers again

https://shop.loxone.com/enuk/

 

Not sure what to make of the policy flip-flopping, but this is good news to me as if anything does ever break I know I can order it direct from them for delivery ASAP if needed.

 

[Rob99]

You beat me to it, I've just posted similar on the Loxone Google Group.

 

They kept this very quiet, not even Partners were officially notified. Not sure why the change but I guess in the grand scheme of things selling to the public is positive in terms of customer retention and is unlikely to make any dent in business for those partners who also do the install works.

 

[joth]

5 hours ago, Rob99 said:

You beat me to it, I've just posted similar on the Loxone Google Group.

 

They kept this very quiet, not even Partners were officially notified. Not sure why the change but I guess in the grand scheme of things selling to the public is positive in terms of customer retention and is unlikely to make any dent in business for those partners who also do the install works.

 

LOL. I bet it's a website error then that they never intended: no longer checking partner status before offering the prices. 

 

h/t for posting in the Google group, that's where I heard this from

Edited May 13, 2022 by joth

[Rob99]

I thought it was an error with their new partner portal which went live the same time as the price increase hit.

 

Having asked the question I was specifically told that consumers are now able to buy direct from Loxone.

[markharro]

On 29/04/2022 at 15:51, joth said:

All our electric toothbrushes charged from PoE. Who's laughing now!

What type of toothbrush can charge this way? And presumably then building regs allow you to instal ethernet sockets in bathrooms? Another basic question. Do you need a special ethernet cable to use PoE or does standard CAT6 or 6A do the job? thanks

[markharro]

On 29/04/2022 at 15:51, joth said:

All our electric toothbrushes charged from PoE. Who's laughing now!

What type of toothbrush can charge this way? And presumably then building regs allow you to instal ethernet sockets in bathrooms? Another basic question. Do you need a special ethernet cable to use PoE or does standard CAT6 or 6A do the job? thanks

[markharro]

On 29/04/2022 at 15:51, joth said:

All our electric toothbrushes charged from PoE. Who's laughing now!

What type of toothbrush can charge this way? And presumably then building regs allow you to instal ethernet sockets in bathrooms? Another basic question. Do you need a special ethernet cable to use PoE or does standard CAT6 or 6A do the job? thanks

[PeterW]

2 hours ago, markharro said:

Do you need a special ethernet cable to use PoE or does standard CAT6 or 6A do the job? thanks

Standard Cat5E is fine up to 45W as long as you get the decent stuff with pure copper not CCA conductors 

[joth]

11 hours ago, markharro said:

What type of toothbrush can charge this way? And presumably then building regs allow you to instal ethernet sockets in bathrooms? Another basic question. Do you need a special ethernet cable to use PoE or does standard CAT6 or 6A do the job? thanks

 

Oral-B toothbrush with USB charger, plugged into the Unifi PoE USB adaptor

https://store.ui.com/products/instant-802-3af-to-usb-adaptor

 

Anything below 12V is not covered by building regs , but PoE can be 48V so technically might be covered but I'd be surprised if anyone cared in practice

 

I used CAT6A everywhere. Slightly thicker cores means less line power loss. But as Peter says even CAT5E would have worked fine.

 

[markharro]

Thanks...can I check though do you need a special PoE variant of CATx cable on does standard stuff work?

 

I understand the toothbrush now I think but could you not just instal a socket with a USB outlet?

[PeterW]

2 minutes ago, markharro said:

Thanks...can I check though do you need a special PoE variant of CATx cable on does standard stuff work?

Two types of network cable - solid copper and CCA (copper coated aluminum). PoE is best on solid copper - just look at the box and it should tell you what it is

[markharro]

On 09/10/2022 at 08:27, joth said:

Oral-B toothbrush with USB charger, plugged into the Unifi PoE USB adaptor

https://store.ui.com/products/instant-802-3af-to-usb-adaptor

Hi @joth just revisiting this now that I am doing my wiring. Can I ask how you used these? Did you terminate the CAT6A into a wall faceplate like this - https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/networking/network-accessories/network-face-plates-modules/9323-shielded-rj45-face-plate-cat6a-toolless-single-port-with-keystones-009323-5055781241260.html ? And then connect a short length of ethernet cable surface mounted into the PoE to USBC adaptor? Or did you hide the adaptor in the wall and run a short USB cable from it to a USB female wallplate?

 

This adaptor seems to be for USB A. Can you get something similar for USB C?

 

I also have a plan to run PoE to allow an Apple Homepod mini to be used in the bathroom. The issue here is it needs a 20W supply at 9V I think. Any similar adaptor that I could use for this? I found this on a previous search which I think would work but its pretty expensive.....would much rather have something around the £20 level - https://www.networkwebcams.co.uk/microchip-pd-usb-dp60-poe-to-usb-c-adapter/ 

[joth]

I terminated the cat6 in a trailing rj45 plug that goes right in the back of the usb adapter, which in turn is cable tied beneath the vanity unit. The goal is usb power so hiding the adapter away wherever possible seemed to make sense. A standard A to C adapter would work, although PoE to usb C is certainly available as the Unifi doorbell pro requires such an adapter. I can dig out links if needed. 

 

Edit here

https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/48002-ubiquiti-uacc-adapter-poe-usbc/

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by joth