Fitting concealed shower valves and taps - tips?

[jamiehamy]

Hi all, 

 

I've taken delivery of the taps and shower kit for out en-suite and now planning the install for this. 

 

Both the shower valve and the taps (double sink) are 'concealed'. Whilst I understand the principles of what I'm aiming to do, I've not managed to find any particularly helpful videos online - they all seem a bit generic of half hearted!

 

So my ask is 1  can someone point me to a good video for this please! and 2 - looking for hints and tips to make this a bit easier. For this one, we are fitting to a 150mm stud wall. 

 

Thanks!

Jamie 

 

 

[PeterW]

Any chance of knowing which ones as  that makes a difference... Grohe have their own way, as do others

[jamiehamy]

Sure - Lusso Mia shower set and tap. The instructions are fairly useless tbh! https://www.lussostone.com/taps-c3/basin-taps-c8/lusso-mia-series-wall-mounted-basin-mixer-tap-matte-black-p549  and the Mia Shower set. 

[Barney12]

I'm not helping your thread but those matt black taps are striking. 

Ill be interest to know if they show water marks/droplets/spray easily meaning constant cleaning to keep then looking as stunning as they are?

 

[jamiehamy]

So to be a bit more helpful, looking for thoughts on following on the shower first as that seems the most straight forward having looked at it.

 

I have access to the rear of the stud wall (it's a column) and the sides of the studs on either side, so my thinking is that I can do all this 'from behind'. PLanning putting a 150mm dwang across screwed on either side to mount the valve (screwed rather than nailed to ensure no movement). I will mark and cut the holes on the tiled side first, fit the valve to the dwang and position in, then afix the dwang at the appropriate depth. I can then do the plumbing 'in situ' fro behind, test then fit the gyproc. 

 

For the connections, there are two 1/2" female and 3/4" females, so will these be appropriate to transition to 15mm (plastic) supply pipe work?http://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-male-taper-15mm-x/7866g 

Finally, for the run up to the shower head and the hand held, is there any reason I can't do plastic for these?

 

Thank you kindly!

 

Jamie 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2017 by jamiehamy

[jamiehamy]

53 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

I'm not helping your thread but those matt black taps are striking. 

Ill be interest to know if they show water marks/droplets/spray easily meaning constant cleaning to keep then looking as stunning as they are?

 

There's an (expensive) story there. In the interest of convenience and not being very clued up on bathroom furniture ranges, we visited Bathstore and ordered everything from them. Long story short - a lot of faffing happened and my other half started looking at other things - and discovered Lusso. Before we knew it, all we are getting from Bathstore is a shower and a tap..which is a shame because they were very helpful - until someone left, someone died and someone broke their ankle...! We're getting most stuff from Lusso and Bauhaus now. 

[RandAbuild]

Funnily enough, I've just done this last week - added 2 dwangs from the other side of a stud wall to provide a hand shower attachment and rain head to the shower. On the shower side, I added a sheet of ply before the blue plasterboard (we needed to pack out this wall to avoid a floor joist fouling the shower drain; it's also better for hanging a wall-hung double sink from!).

This extra depth meant the usual wall plate elbow ( http://www.screwfix.com/p/p803wp-2-wall-plate-elbow-15mm-x/92934 ) wouldn't be long enough, so I added a female coupler ( http://www.screwfix.com/p/female-coupler-15mm-x/93992 ). All this was done from the other side of the wall, and I screwed the assembly to a piece of ply before adding the dwang so it would all line up:

 

 

[PeterW]

Make your life easy...

 

https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/hep2o-male-adaptors/?gclid=CjwKEAjwxurIBRDnt7P7rODiq0USJADwjt5Dzd74qVsfugO8BwtyxI7Qkj7_rsSfRlHQ-6nGj87-sRoCLULw_wcB

 

Hep2O HX29 in various sizes, screws straight into the brassware and makes it push fit.

 

[Bitpipe]

We got baths, washbasins and a shower tray from Lusso, really impressed with their post sales customer service too.

 

 

[jamiehamy]

6 hours ago, PeterW said:

Make your life easy...

 

https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/hep2o-male-adaptors/?gclid=CjwKEAjwxurIBRDnt7P7rODiq0USJADwjt5Dzd74qVsfugO8BwtyxI7Qkj7_rsSfRlHQ-6nGj87-sRoCLULw_wcB

 

Hep2O HX29 in various sizes, screws straight into the brassware and makes it push fit.

 

Perfect - thanks! 

[PeterW]

Have a quick search online @jamiehamy as they can be had a bit cheaper 

[Temp]

One problem seems to be fitting the bright work (eg spouts) to elbows. There seems to be no certain way to end up with the connection tight and pointing in the right direction. When we did ours up they sometimes went 45 degrees past the right position before I felt they were tight enough. Solution seems to be to undo it, add even more PTFE tape and try again. Hate bodges like that.  

[jamiehamy]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

One problem seems to be fitting the bright work (eg spouts) to elbows. There seems to be no certain way to end up with the connection tight and pointing in the right direction. When we did ours up they sometimes went 45 degrees past the right position before I felt they were tight enough. Solution seems to be to undo it, add even more PTFE tape and try again. Hate bodges like that.  

Funny you say that I was going to post the exact same conundrum! I agree,  seems like a bodge but I can't think of anything else! 

[Crofter]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

One problem seems to be fitting the bright work (eg spouts) to elbows. There seems to be no certain way to end up with the connection tight and pointing in the right direction. When we did ours up they sometimes went 45 degrees past the right position before I felt they were tight enough. Solution seems to be to undo it, add even more PTFE tape and try again. Hate bodges like that.  

 

I don't know if it would be applicable, but when I faced this issue installing valves on a boat, the advice was to use liquid PTFE and a backnut, allowing you to lock the fitting in place at whichiever orientation you needed. Requires sufficient threaded length to fit the extra nut, though.

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, jamiehamy said:

Funny you say that I was going to post the exact same conundrum! I agree,  seems like a bodge but I can't think of anything else! 

 

Use plastic ..! Doesn't need to be tightened up then ...

[jamiehamy]

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

Use plastic ..! Doesn't need to be tightened up then ...

I'm down south without proper computer access - for some other the other bathrooms I might be easier with a 90degree elbow coming out but I suppose I can use this then a 90 or 45 degree elbow. Will be the same difference. Hugely helpful responses from everyone,  thank you! 

[Temp]

4 hours ago, Crofter said:

I don't know if it would be applicable, but when I faced this issue installing valves on a boat, the advice was to use liquid PTFE and a backnut, allowing you to lock the fitting in place at whichiever orientation you needed. Requires sufficient threaded length to fit the extra nut, though.

 

Ours had to be fitted after tiling so no access to the nut.

[jamiehamy]

On 17/05/2017 at 18:35, Crofter said:

 

I don't know if it would be applicable, but when I faced this issue installing valves on a boat, the advice was to use liquid PTFE and a backnut, allowing you to lock the fitting in place at whichiever orientation you needed. Requires sufficient threaded length to fit the extra nut, though.

I'm suffering this issue with one elbow - just can't seem to get a seal. Might need to try the liquid pfte . This is on the manifold tho so committed to a compression elbow with male connector. Everything else is perfect just this one. 

[Barney12]

9 hours ago, jamiehamy said:

I'm suffering this issue with one elbow - just can't seem to get a seal. Might need to try the liquid pfte . This is on the manifold tho so committed to a compression elbow with male connector. Everything else is perfect just this one. 

 

Have you tried Loctite Cord? It has never ever let me down with a difficult joint:

 

http://www.loctite.co.uk/pipe-sealing-9886.htm

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Barney12 said:

 

Have you tried Loctite Cord? It has never ever let me down with a difficult joint:

 

http://www.loctite.co.uk/pipe-sealing-9886.htm

 

Tbh I would try a new fitting first ..!

 

If it's the BSP male fitting that is loose then buy a decent U.K. branded one such as Pegler and see if that has any less slop. If there is still slop then consider sending the shower valve back as it's out of tolerance. 

 

The other choice is to go for a plastic elbow such as a Hep2O one as I've found they tend to seal a bit better than brass on brass 

 

 

[jamiehamy]

So this is for the manifold (I'm using the connector posted above for the shower valve). The manifold ports are pointing down which means the male elbow still has around half a turn left to tight - which would have it pointing the wrong way. I'll try more tape first,  I've probably been a bit sparing and the Loctite stuff if that fails. The other two are fine,  just this one weeps slightly.  

[Russell griffiths]

On 17/05/2017 at 17:08, Temp said:

One problem seems to be fitting the bright work (eg spouts) to elbows. There seems to be no certain way to end up with the connection tight and pointing in the right direction. When we did ours up they sometimes went 45 degrees past the right position before I felt they were tight enough. Solution seems to be to undo it, add even more PTFE tape and try again. Hate bodges like that.  

This is exactly how I had to do ours on our last house, square tap spout, asked the plumber who did the first fix and he said that is just how they are, take it off add a new piece of tape and re instal, I agree I doesn't seem right I even split a tap spout as I forced it around into the right position. 

[Russell griffiths]

On a hotel water system we did every threaded joint had a liquid thread lock compound on it, after hundreds of joints I don't remember having 1 single weap anywhere

 could be worth having a hunt around for a liquid sealer. 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

9 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

On a hotel water system we did every threaded joint had a liquid thread lock compound on it, after hundreds of joints I don't remember having 1 single weap anywhere

 could be worth having a hunt around for a liquid sealer. 

 

 

 

I've used Screwfix Liquid PTFE a lot, and it's never yet failed.  The dispenser bottle is a really bad design, making it frustrating to get the stuff out, but it works really well.  If a joint needs to be undone, then gently warming it up will soften the sealant and allow it to unscrew fairly easily.

[Onoff]

19 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

I've used Screwfix Liquid PTFE a lot, and it's never yet failed.  The dispenser bottle is a really bad design, making it frustrating to get the stuff out, but it works really well.  If a joint needs to be undone, then gently warming it up will soften the sealant and allow it to unscrew fairly easily.

 

Yep, I had a bottle of that No Nonsense stuff, comes out blue from memory. Ended up keeping it upside down when I used it as the dispenser is so poor. Sets rock hard. I wouldn't use again unless I absolutely had to. 

 

Tbh on a compression / threaded fitting Jet Blue Plus is fantastic and it's my go to for anything like this. I can't praise it enough. Stops compression fittings squealing as you do them up and forms a demountable seal. It just seems to lube the joint up and make it go "better". Expensive mind:

 

http://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/product/center-center-jet-blue-plus-500-g/

 

EDIT: Jet Blue Plus cured a leak on 9bar incoming main. Used it further to @Nickfromwales's suggestion though he favours something else similar.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Onoff