Jump to content

Ban on New Residential Development Across 74 UK local planning authorities


Recommended Posts

I just spoke with our local council, he tells me that any planning or discharge of conditions relating to drainage or surface water will be caught in this. We can probably squeak our non-material amendments through, but anything more than that is likely to also be affected.

 

Happy days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm astonished why something as significant as this issue, and is impacting people in a very real way, hasn't been picked up by the mainstream media.

 

Oh, silly me, they're all too wrapped up in partygate/beergate/who the f*** cares gate

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Rob99 said:

I'm astonished why something as significant as this issue, and is impacting people in a very real way, hasn't been picked up by the mainstream media.

 

Oh, silly me, they're all too wrapped up in partygate/beergate/who the f*** cares gate

 

 

 

Yes, that's very true. Without wanting to turn this post political, the silly 50 quid fines are being used to distract from the real crime that's going in within the government.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi All

 

So an update on the Nitrate / Phosphate issue.

 

Its been over 2 months since the blanket ban hit and having spoken to MP's, local councillors and finally the planning officer it appears this is a complete mess with no end in sight.

 

Having read the press i noted it was beginning to get national coverage with figures of 100k + new homes blocked with the ban expected to continue from  anywhere form 12 - 36 months.

 

I am calling all Buildhub members who might be impacted to make their experience known - i am sure we will be better equipped to fight this madness if we share our experience and learnings.

 

Bob  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll reiterate my previous point as to how on earth a non-governmental and non-statutory body are able to completely f*** up the legal and statutory framework for planning in England with a piece of guidance which appears currently to have no statutory backing.

 

I acknowledge that these issues need to be looked at and considered but ffs who on earth decided that such a knee jerk reaction was at all appropriate.

 

I really do think the whole planning system is becoming more stacked against anyone who wants to do anything in this country, much more than is currently the case which is bad enough (except Graven Hill of course where you can build anything you like!!).

 

I now hear that there are proposals being considered which will effectively allow neighbours and/or community groups to decide whether you can build an extension on your house.

 

Words fail me....!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 10/05/2022 at 18:48, Chanmenie said:

No you can’t clear the conditions they won’t discharge any conditions at present until they have a mitigation plan.

I have full planning approved including connecting to main sewer, but I’m in the same boat as I have a condition for surface water drainage. Which is frustrating because my surface water will go to a soakaway and I am many miles from any watercourse and the broads.

 

@Chanmenie, we are in Norwich too. We've been told they're seeking legal advice on how they should treat approved applications with drainage conditions attached. So my understanding was that we *might* be need to show nutrient neutrality, or we may eventually be allowed to go ahead if it's decided that's admissable. 

 

Have you been told you definitely will have to mitigate?

 

Annoyingly, the Natural England document specifies that the new requirements cover new applications and those at the reserved matters stage. We've cleared that hurdle so surely they can feasibly allow pre-conditions through?! (Pleeeease)

 

This is the advice given to councils from the Planning Advisory Service:

 

Screenshot_20220527_175055_com.android.gallery3d.jpg

Edited by ErgoFergo
Add photo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I do quite big housing planning apps in Norfolk, and I’ve heard there might be a positive meeting soon. I don’t think it will be 2 years and I wouldn’t worry about that, but when I hear anything I’ll post here.

 

My feeling is they will be asking for mitigation, or a report proving you are ineligible, or a bribe community infrastructure levy to pay a farmer somewhere to plant reeds.

Edited by CharlieKLP
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said:

I do quite big housing planning apps in Norfolk, and I’ve heard there might be a positive meeting soon. I don’t think it will be 2 years and I wouldn’t worry about that, but when I hear anything I’ll post here.

 

My feeling is they will be asking for mitigation, or a report proving you are ineligible, or a bribe community infrastructure levy to pay a farmer somewhere to plant reeds.

 

Please do post here, @CharlieKLP!

 

We only have 18 months on our planning (reserved matters were approved six months ago so we had two years). Surely that sort of mitigation (wetlands, reed beds, agricultural land taken out of action) will take a long time to implement? I can't imagine the council doing anything quickly!

 

We spoke to an architect who seemed to think we'd be fine with a sustainable drainage system as we already had planning approval. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, ErgoFergo said:

 

Please do post here, @CharlieKLP!

 

We only have 18 months on our planning (reserved matters were approved six months ago so we had two years). Surely that sort of mitigation (wetlands, reed beds, agricultural land taken out of action) will take a long time to implement? I can't imagine the council doing anything quickly!

 

We spoke to an architect who seemed to think we'd be fine with a sustainable drainage system as we already had planning approval. 


during covid they put in an extension to people’s planning so they didn’t expire - it would be hard for them to enforce it because they caused this delay.

 

there are other councils that have already implemented the reed bed policy, and I think the threat of people suing them is pretty good encouragement. 
 

Like your architect says, you could look into a report and a sustainable drainage system to prove you’re neutral in the meantime, it might be a good idea. 
 

I think it’s terrible how they have handled this. I’ve lost one customer already I had planning for (Portsmouth). That was a while ago and they expanded the rules since then too.

Edited by CharlieKLP
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thinking back to when the FiTs system changed from 41p to 21p per kWh at short notice, it got challenged in the courts and the government lost.

So hopefully this will be challenged in the same way for places that already have approval in place (or even better in the planning system before the rules changed).

 

While I agree with the general principle of improving the environment, it has to be implemented sensibly, and 'offsetting schemes' are not the way to do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well let’s hope so, I have full planning approval but can’t proceed above slab until my surface water drainage condition is discharged.

And my surface water will go into a soakaway which is many miles from any watercourse or the broads 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Chanmenie said:

Well let’s hope so, I have full planning approval but can’t proceed above slab until my surface water drainage condition is discharged.

And my surface water will go into a soakaway which is many miles from any watercourse or the broads 

 

Hi @Chanmenie. Have you been told you'll definitely have to prove your development is Nutrient Neutral? Or just that the council doesn't know whether to include your development until they've had legal advice?

 

I don't think we can even get to slab level. We can clear the land in preparation but I don't think we can do enough to trigger our planning and protect it from expiring. 

Edited by ErgoFergo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think anyone doing a knock down and rebuild should perhaps propose the knock down as mitigation on the grounds the overall project will be neutral. Apply for the condition to be discharged and appeal if it isn't. If they refuse to process it Appeal for non determination. If you don't get a response to the application to discharge there is a "deemed consent" procedure. Will be important to follow the timescales allowed.

 

Others with conditions.. There are a lot of rules the planners must follow when imposing conditions. Some make conditions unenforceable, such as those that cannot be met or require you to use third party land. If the problem can only be solved by the water companies I suspect you could argue that what the planners want you to do is unenforceable. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-of-planning-conditions

 

Perhaps a group of you could get together and hire a planning consultant to try and find a common procedural way around it.

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to know how anyone in our situation (full planning but with drainage conditions) handled this situation in any of the councils first affected by this three years ago (Havant, Hereford etc). 

 

My fear is we may lose our planning altogether if no solution is found for self-builders. I hope I'm catastrophising!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/news/nutrient-neutrality

 

Quote

The government has responded to nutrient neutrality concerns by rejecting calls to impose tougher sanctions on developments that pollute the country’s rivers.

 

But doesn't provide any practical way out.

 

Quote

 

And this month Herefordshire Council published its phosphate credit proposal(opens in new tab) for homebuilding, an innovative Integrated Wetlands credit plan which will be available to self builders and could benefit those who’ve already purchased a plot and submitted an application.

 

However, the combined cost of the credits (£14,000 + VAT per kilogram of offset required per year) together with the required phosphate assessment, legal work, nutrient consultant specialist and draining engineer specialist could add up to around £10,000 per rural dwelling, according to Albright.


 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Water treatment plant might be a solution. Perhaps look at this development..

 

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/explainer-what-is-nutrient-neutrality-and-why-is-it-stopping-housebuilding

 

Quote

Earlier this year, Somerset-based studio Charles Gillespie_Architecture came up against the problem when trying to get plans approved for family homes on a farm near the village of Babcary. After consulting with ecologists, it was decided the scheme would use a water treatment plant which could be judged against Natural England’s guidelines.

 

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/why-thousands-of-new-kent-homes-could-now-get-green-light-252518/

 

Quote

Several major housing projects in Kent can now go-ahead - but only if developers build their own expensive on-site sewage treatment works.

 

Edited by Temp
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, ErgoFergo said:

 

Hi @Chanmenie. Have you been told you'll definitely have to prove your development is Nutrient Neutral? Or just that the council doesn't know whether to include your development until they've had legal advice?

 

I don't think we can even get to slab level. We can clear the land in preparation but I don't think we can do enough to trigger our planning and protect it from expiring. 

I the only thing I have been told is that they won’t discharge my surface water drainage condition until they have suitable mitigation.

So what’s frustrating is my surface water cannot get to a watercourse and to the broads. 
Basically they don’t have a clue what to do about any of it, so they are stalling 

Edited by Chanmenie
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I don’t understand is where they think surface water is coming from. You don’t create it by building a house, it just falls from the sky and it doesn’t matter in the scheme of things. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said:

What I don’t understand is where they think surface water is coming from. You don’t create it by building a house, it just falls from the sky and it doesn’t matter in the scheme of things. 

Very true, but I think the fact it’s surface water is irrelevant, it’s the fact I have a drainage condition means I can’t progress above slab level, because they won’t discharge any drainage conditions.

Because they don’t look at them on an individual basis 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Chanmenie said:

Very true, but I think the fact it’s surface water is irrelevant, it’s the fact I have a drainage condition means I can’t progress above slab level, because they won’t discharge any drainage conditions.

Because they don’t look at them on an individual basis 

 

I think they're so scared of being sued they won't touch any drainage conditions with a barge pole. Hopefully once they've had legal advice, they'll take a more sensible approach on cases which already have full planning to at least move some developments through the system. From the PAS advice, some councils have taken a more risk based approach on pre-conditions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CharlieKLP said:

What I don’t understand is where they think surface water is coming from. You don’t create it by building a house, it just falls from the sky and it doesn’t matter in the scheme of things. 

 

I mean, if your drainage condition only refers to surface water, surely your foul waste drainage already has approval, and therefore a soakaway should be admissible in the circumstances? I'd have thought it's the foul waste that has the biggest discharge of nutrients. 🤷‍♀️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, ErgoFergo said:

 

I mean, if your drainage condition only refers to surface water, surely your foul waste drainage already has approval, and therefore a soakaway should be admissible in the circumstances? I'd have thought it's the foul waste that has the biggest discharge of nutrients. 🤷‍♀️

Yes exactly I have full planning approval which included foul waste connection to main sewer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...