Boiler Upgrade Scheme Grant - Actions to Take Now

[Green Power]

This is my first post. I hope you are all doing well. Thanks if anyone can help.

 

I would like to secure the boiler upgrade scheme grant - should I wait and see what is published in April, or should I act now and take certain actions now to have a better chance of getting it?

 

It is proposed here Clean Heat Grant: further policy design proposals (may not be final policy) that “to be eligible for the Clean Heat Grant (now known as Boiler Upgrade Scheme) there must be no recommendations on the valid EPC for loft and/or cavity wall insulation”. This could rule me out since my EPC recommend cavity wall insulation. I found on this website Boiler Upgrade Scheme: Here's What You Need to Know that you can “insulate your home between applying for the Boiler Upgrade Scheme and getting a heat pump installed”. But I don´t see confirmation of that point on any government website. Can anyone confirm? Or would it better to get the insulation done in the next few weeks before I even apply?

 

Given the Ukraine situation, I wouldn't be surprised if there is quite a high demand for the grant (not a high demand in absolute terms, but relative to the small amount of funding and staff available to help).

 

What else can I do this month to improve the chance of getting accepted?

Edited March 17, 2022 by Green Power

[nod]

In reality people on Benefits and low income are already at the front of the queue 

Very similar to the old gas boiler scheme Where they will pay the full cost of replacing a gas boiler if a person is on benefits Even landlords qualify for this 

[Gone West]

11 hours ago, Green Power said:

This could rule me out since my EPC recommend cavity wall insulation.

This might be the case, if you have cavity walls. I have the same recommendation on my EPC and all my walls are solid. EPCs based on RdSAP are generally crap.

[JohnMo]

Without having a well insulated house, the running cost of a heat pump could be huge. Are you sure, done the maths to make sure it's right for you.

 

You don't say if you are on electric, oil or gas heating presently?

 

If you get your annual heating usage in kWh, divide by around 2.5, then multiply by day rate electric cost, you will get a close approximate of the ASHP running cost. 

[SBMS]

46 minutes ago, nod said:

In reality people on Benefits and low income are already at the front of the queue 

Is that confirmed somewhere @nod? In the proposed scheme document it states

 

Ofgem will be required to determine grant applications in the order they are received

[Green Power]

5 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Without having a well insulated house, the running cost of a heat pump could be huge. Are you sure, done the maths to make sure it's right for you.

 

You don't say if you are on electric, oil or gas heating presently?

 

If you get your annual heating usage in kWh, divide by around 2.5, then multiply by day rate electric cost, you will get a close approximate of the ASHP running cost. 

 

I haven't done any maths or calculations but from what I've read we might be OK, assuming I'm willing to look at additional insulation as part of the upgrade:

 

The House
74m2 (797 sq ft) end terrace. Two floors. Wellingborough, Northants. Concrete build. Rated 67 (a high D) on the Energy Performance Certificate. Double glazed windows I believe throughout, not too sure how much installation but possibly not much.

We lived in the property from 2007 to 2013 but we moved abroad and are now the landlords. There are currently tenants in the property. I´m probably going to arrange this remotely without being in the UK at any point.

The property currently has combi gas boiler from 2012 (Baxi) which has had minor to moderate issues and needed repair and servicing several times. Persistent leaking in recent years. Recommended new boiler on the Gas Safety Certificate this month. Should be space for heat pump in garden.

 

The EPC estimates 9132 kWH required for space heating and 2050 kWH for water heating.

 

My assumption is that the cost of running will be about the same as the gas on today's gas and electric prices in the UK, but this is a rough guess so welcome any opinions. I'm also assuming I may need to add radiators or insulation to make this true.

[Andehh]

I'd leave it as is IMO, unless your forever home & you are passionate for technology & sustainability. I'd re-assess in a few years.

[JohnMo]

Not really sure why you would commit to spending a fortune on an ASHP, even with grants, just put in a new gas boiler and take the rent.

 

Plenty of people have issues with ASHP set-up, read the threads on here, this would have to be managed by you, from a distance, not easy.

 

An ASHP will need new radiators and possibly bigger distribution piping, if it's a combi also a cylinder.  Even a system boiler will need a new cylinder, when installing an ASHP, due the lower operating temp of the ASHP.  You may have to pay to re-home the tenants while the work is ongoing, which would not be refundable by any grants. 

 

New gas boiler, the plumber would be in and out in a day. Job done.

[TW9]

I really like our ashp but I wouldn't pick one for your house. The don't provide heat in the same way as a gas boiler so unless your tenants are prepared to learn how to get the best out of it they will be moaning to you about being cold or having large electricity bills.

[Green Power]

Thanks everyone for helping out.

 

When you say "don't provide heat in the same way as a gas boiler" is that a reference to the reduced power, slower to heat up? I think that can be addressed by the system having a thermostat, ability to turn on/off from your smart phone even when not at home, and programmable timing. I'd be interested to know how feasible it would be in terms of noise to run a heat pump a few hours in the middle of the night so you wake up to a warm house.

 

I am an environmentalist and I hate the fossil fuel industry. Gas is by some estimates is as bad as coal (for total warming impact) when the methane leakages are considered. If the EPC is correct, we are talking about 11 MWH of energy from gas. Carbon footprint.com estimates that at 2 tonnes per year but that's probably burn only without considering the full lifecycle impact or methane leakages, so call that 3 tonnes. If it lasts 13 - 14 years that's 40 tonnes. Heat pump would be nearer 10 over the same period, so that's a rough estimated saving of 30 tonnes CO2e.

 

I am also an environmentalist activist (peaceful and legal) to a small extent, so I think it would undermine my activism if one day I am telling people about how we need to stop the fossil fuel industry and the next day I am buying a gas boiler.

 

So if the heat pump is £9,000, so £4,000 after grant, I'd be OK with that, provided that price includes enough insulation and radiators to bring the overall spend on heating to being on a par with gas - and providing this covers hot water as well as heating. That's the total budget, including electronics, pipework, hot water tank, and anything else. If the costs turn out to be £11,000 or £12,000, I don't know what I would do, honestly. It can't hurt to get a quote or two, surely?

 

The boiler is in a bad state with a constant drain on maintenance costs. Heat pumps also seem to have less maintenance and last longer, although obviously it's early days to say for sure, would appreciate any opinions on either point...

 

It looks like gas prices will be high by next winter if we look at wholesale and future prices at the moment. That's also a factor.

 

Unfortunately this boiler doesn't look like it will last a few years, and cost reductions of this type of technology I think will realistically only add up to a lot over 5 or 10 years, not 1 or 2.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Green Power

[Andehh]

Not sure I agree that throwing out a perfectly functioning gas boiler to install a brand new ASHP, whose manufacture & transport probably has several years of carbon emissions locked up inside, is better overall.

 

You'd be better off simply installing more insulation (internal, external, upgraded windows, doors etc?) and tackling climate change that way I think. Replace the gas boiler only when repairing it is no longer viable. 

[JohnMo]

First principles should be not to use fossil fuels, the electrical grid is full of it when it's not windy (still quite a bit when it is).  Then you have nuclear, with waste products which are not safe for humans for 10 000 years.

 

Perspective, my 190m2 bungalow, requires a similar amount of kWH to yours to heat.  If the house was a third the size we would not need heat 99% of the time. If you really want to do your bit for the planet, insulation and airtightness should be where you spend your money.  You would have a happy planet and happy tenants, with little or no heating bills.  Then heat domestic water via E7.

[TW9]

If you want to do it for environmental reasons then I'd read up on the best way to set up and control heat pumps. As you won't be there to play around with the settings you want to get it right first time. There are good arguments for not using an internal thermostat so you want to make an informed decision.

 

You should also find a reliable company to do your system design. It isn't as simple as removing the boiler and putting in a heat pump. The company should do heat loss calculations to work out radiator sizes and heat pump size. They will also tell you if any of your pipework will need changing.

 

As I said, I like our heat pump but it isn't a simple task to replace a gas boiler with one.

[Dillsue]

2 hours ago, Andehh said:

Not sure I agree that throwing out a perfectly functioning gas boiler to install a brand new ASHP, whose manufacture & transport probably has several years of carbon emissions locked up inside, is better overall.

 

You'd be better off simply installing more insulation (internal, external, upgraded windows, doors etc?) and tackling climate change that way I think. Replace the gas boiler only when repairing it is no longer viable. 

+1. I dont think many people appreciate the embodied energy/emissions wasted and caused by smashing something up and then buying something to replace it. On top of emissions is the environmental damage attributed to disposal and sourcing new raw materials.

[TW9]

I'd also educate your tenants, or prevent them changing the controls.

 

Example, they go away for a long weekend in January and decide to save money by switching the heating off. Over the 3 days the house temperature drops quite low. When they're heading home they use their app to switch the heating back on. Firstly the house won't be warm when they get home because the system can't raise the temperature as quickly as a gas boiler. Secondly, to try to heat the house the heat pump will run at a higher temperature than normal (depending on how the controls are set up) which reduces the efficiency and uses lots of electricity.

 

We did this early on with our heat pump, before we learned how to use it efficiently.

[Green Power]

9 hours ago, Andehh said:

Not sure I agree that throwing out a perfectly functioning gas boiler to install a brand new ASHP, whose manufacture & transport probably has several years of carbon emissions locked up inside, is better overall.

 

You'd be better off simply installing more insulation (internal, external, upgraded windows, doors etc?) and tackling climate change that way I think. Replace the gas boiler only when repairing it is no longer viable. 

I see you are based in Northants as well. Let me know if you have any local knowledge about good installers or anything else relevant.

 

The 10-year old boiler is not "perfectly functioning". It is getting worse and worse. As I said, persistent leaking in recent years and recommended new boiler on the Gas Safety Certificate this month. I can either proactively replace it in the summer or perhaps wait for it to stop working altogether in the middle of the winter, leading to a rushed replacement.

 

Changing to a heat pump likely cuts the climate change impact by 75% according to the calculation I did yesterday, assuming that the UK grid slowly decarbonizes over the next 15-20 years. I`m guessing you can´t achieve that level of gains with insulation unless you are building the house from scratch, or you spend as much money on insulation as you would on the heat pump.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Green Power

[Green Power]

It´s very hard to work out the embodied carbon in the manufacturer of things. But a good rule of thumb is that most things in their manufacture use 0.3 - 0.4 kgCO2e/£ (Mike Berners Lee is a good source of info on this in his books).

 

The rule is surprisingly accurate. I´ve seen companies and organizations do painstakingly detailed analysis on the carbon footprint of the manufacture of batteries, vehicles, and many other things. It almost always comes out in the range above if it is a good analysis, although it can be lower if they are not counting the full impacts properly.

 

So anything that costs say £9000 will likely have a footprint of about 2.7 - 3.6 tonnes CO2e. It might be lower if it´s produced in UK, or higher if components are shipped from China, so call it 3 at a guess.

 

The heat pump will save according to my calculations 1.5 tonnes after a year, so after two years you are already even, and then it may last 10 or 20 years.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Green Power

[Green Power]

I didn´t get the answers to any of the questions I originally asked yet, but I found this in a brochure from Daikin (see attached brochure, page 13, you have to fill in some details somewhere on their website to get it)

 

This is for the Boiler Upgrade Scheme

 

What is the application process?
1. Installer receives instruction from the property owner to carry out installation and apply for BUS grant
2. Installer applies to Ofgem for a voucher, providing all necessary information
3. Ofgem contacts property owner and they confirm their consent
4. Ofgem assess the application and once satisfied, and property owner consent confirmed, issue a
voucher to the installer
5. Installer completes installation
6. Installer applies to redeem the voucher, and Ofgem assess redemption application
7. Ofgem pays grant to installer

694517716_DaikinBrochure.pdf

[JohnMo]

So to answer your questions - get quotes, decide on which company you are going to use.  Be ready to tell company to go ahead with application ASAP.

 

Plan on what if anything you need to do to improve EPC.  Get quotes/DIY, be ready to implement.

 

Hanging around, you may miss the boat.

[IanR]

On 17/03/2022 at 21:09, Green Power said:

I would like to secure the boiler upgrade scheme grant - should I wait and see what is published in April, or should I act now and take certain actions now to have a better chance of getting it?

 

I'd sort this out:

 

On 18/03/2022 at 14:13, Green Power said:

not too sure how much installation but possibly not much.

 

Loft and cavity wall insulation is not only a "no-brainer", but also prepares the property for an ASHP heating system where reduced energy losses better support a lower energy input into the property over a longer period of day. Next I'd look at improving the output of the emitters, either by increasing their size or swapping for fan assisted radiators, to allow a lower flow temp for improved ASHP efficiency.

[Green Power]

OK, thanks for your replies. If anyone would appreciate regular updates as I go along let me know.

Not sure if the heat pump installers will do the insulation at the same time, or whether that needs to be done first and separately by another company.

At the moment my short list is CTC, Daikin, Vaillant, Mitsubishi, Viessman, Nibe although I´ll see what the installers say.

I have discarded (for now):

Dimplex ,as I didn´t get a recommended installer from them.

Panasonic and Samsung: scored the lowest company ethical ratings on Ethical Consumer.

Nu-heat as looks like they are just reselling Nibe.

Glow-Worm and Danfoss: didn´t like their websites, and looks like not that focused on heat pumps.

Worcester Greensource as poor website, and no recommended heat pump installers in my area.

 

I am sure at least one or two of these were unfairly discarded, as I am not going to spend hours investigating each company.

[Green Power]

--editing to delete as double post--

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Green Power

[J1mbo]

Wow so much negativity on here.

 

It turns out that under RHI we’d all have been better off getting our EPCs immediately after having the ASHP installed because it increases the heat demand by 33% when primary heating source is ASHP, because the EPC assumes the property will be heated 24x7.

 

This is generally found to be the best way to run heat pumps because the increase in COP more than offsets the increase in demand caused by longer run hours.

 

Heat pump plus solar (electric) is probably the best combination to reduce carbon footprint.

 

It might be worth checking that what you’re planning, because of the EPC, doesn’t leave the property unrentable because of the resultant EPC rating. Talk to your EPC provider and have them run it with the proposed changes to see what impact it has.

[SBMS]

32 minutes ago, J1mbo said:

Wow so much negativity on here.

 

It turns out that under RHI we’d all have been better off getting our EPCs immediately after having the ASHP installed because it increases the heat demand by 33% when primary heating source is ASHP, because the EPC assumes the property will be heated 24x7.

 

This is generally found to be the best way to run heat pumps because the increase in COP more than offsets the increase in demand caused by longer run hours.

 

Heat pump plus solar (electric) is probably the best combination to reduce carbon footprint.

 

It might be worth checking that what you’re planning, because of the EPC, doesn’t leave the property unrentable because of the resultant EPC rating. Talk to your EPC provider and have them run it with the proposed changes to see what impact it has.

Our SAP guy told us that the EPC calculations are changing this year so that electric driven sources like heat pumps will increase your score due to the way the carbon offset is being adjusted:

 

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/insight/carbon-factors-good-news-for-your-epc-rating/

[IanR]

6 hours ago, Green Power said:

OK, thanks for your replies. If anyone would appreciate regular updates as I go along let me know.

 

Please do, you'll be one of the first on here to use the BUS, so it will be good info for us.

 

Since this is a rental property, while you are planning some level of renovation, it is worth targeting and EPC C or better. Not sure what part of the country you are in but both the UK and Scottish Governments have announced an intention to legislate a minimum EPC C for the private rental sector during the mid '20's. Possibly as early as 2026 for the UK and 2028 for Scotland.