lakelandfolk Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Sorry to bring this up again because I know the DIY installation of Sunamps topic was mentioned some time ago but I can not find it. We are considering installing a Sunamp Thermino 210e or Uniq eHW which is the basic unit which we would power via grid off peak (Octopus Go). The Sunamp would be for DHW only which is currently provided from a gas combi boiler. We have solar and battery storage but would like to keep it simple. We have requested a quotation for supply only from North West Heating and they say they can't do supply only because installers have to be trained and authorised by Sunamp. I know we can purchase a unit direct from people like https://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/ but if we go down the DIY route will the Sunamp guarantee still apply? I am a competent plumber and, having seen the installation instructions on line, confident of undertaking the work myself. North West Heating are probably adding circa £1000 for installation. Most of the Sunamp posts I have found on the forum are 2018 - 2019. Has anyone got experience of the latest Sunamps? Have they sorted out some of the issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 They are easier than an unvented cylinder !! 2 pipes and a power connection, and depending on how you use it, a timer trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakelandfolk Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 Thanks Peter, yes I would indeed include a timer and also water filter as we have hard water here in Lancashire. If I follow the Sunamp installation instructions to the letter then see no reason why the product guarantee should not be applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TW9 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 What does the warranty say? I think it's on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, TW9 said: What does the warranty say? I think it's on their website. A veritable jungle, very much in need of a total and in-depth read, re-read, and digestion. Regardless of fault, ( eg if the fault cannot be resolved by a call-out engineer ), the owner is responsible for the removal of ( DE-COMMISSION OF ALL PLUMBING AND ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS AND REMOVAL FROM THE RESIDENCE ), and the costs of transportation ( palletised ) to / from SA, and the re-installation of the unit. If this is your only source of DHW, then you will have a home which is inhabitable for that duration. "or ask you to return the product"....Deliciously shy on detail in that instance........ If you purchase outside of an approved installer, you will be subject to the terms and definitions, as set out by SA, and would likely be quoted "a non-standard installation" when refused your claim. For context, I went out to a property with a Telford UVC, some 5 years after its installation. It had failed and the owner asked me to come and replace it. I petitioned Telford and they DELIVERED FOC a replacement unit the following day, delivered by a courier they paid for, with the only condition given that they wanted the same delivery driver to be able to collect the failed unit at that same time. For further context, in 15+ years of being heavily involved in the heating and hot water industry, encompassing the installation and service of both unvented hot water cylinders and Sunamp units, I've only been back to the 2 aforementioned UVC's where the manufacturer paid up for one. Sadly, the number of failed SA units I was asked to attend to ( by both SA and the clients they refused to service ) is 'substantially' more. The message here is about the correct design and informed implementation of whatever your chosen DHW device is to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: A veritable jungle, very much in need of a total and in-depth read, re-read, and digestion. Regardless of fault, ( eg if the fault cannot be resolved by a call-out engineer ), the owner is responsible for the removal of ( DE-COMMISSION OF ALL PLUMBING AND ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS AND FEMOVAL FROM THE RESODENCE ), and the costs of transportation ( palletised ) to / from SA, and the re-installation, of the unit. If this is your only source of DHW, then you will have a home which is inhabitable for that duration. "or ask you to return the product"....Deliciously shy on detail in that instance........ I had that nonsense with my first dead ASHP where they wanted me to return it for repair. Until I found the parent company and involved their CEO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: For further context, in 15+ years of being heavily involved in the heating and hot water industry, encompassing the installation and service of both unvented hot water cylinders and Sunamp units, I've only been back to the 2 aforementioned UVC's where the manufacturer paid up for one. Sadly, the number of failed SA units I was asked to attend to ( by both SA and the clients they refused to service ) is 'substantially' more. The message here is an UVC does not have much to go wrong with it, and anything that can go wrong is easily repaired. But a Sun amp has some complicated controls, and it appears from other threads, a heating element that cannot be replaced easily if it fails. I think you have to have a very good specific reason to choose a Sun Amp, e.g you really need it's lower standing heat loss or you really need the more compact unit compared to an UVC. If you don't need either of those features I would choose an UVC personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, ProDave said: I had that nonsense with my first dead ASHP where they wanted me to return it for repair. Until I found the parent company and involved their CEO. One such CEO is VERY active on a particular social media platform......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakelandfolk Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 Many thanks to everyone, looks like if we decide to go for a Sunamp then an approved installer is the way to proceed. As you say, needs a bit more thought if reliability is still an issue. Space for an UVC would be difficult to find and probably require us to continue using the gas. We would love to stop relying on gas, and were looking at options even before the current Ukraine situation. We have already invested heavily by completing a comprehensive retrofit energy efficient upgrade of our home (EWI -Triple Glazing - Solar & battery storage etc) but our budget is now limited and would not stretch to ASHP etc. I guess it was the appeal of "instant hot water on demand" without using gas the drew us to Sunamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, lakelandfolk said: Space for an UVC would be difficult to find and probably require us to continue using the gas. Sorry - that statement doesn’t make sense ..?? Why do you need gas with a UVC but not with a Sunamp..?? Your Sunamp would be direct electric..? And it has a footprint similar to a 250 slimline UVC so it takes up no more space than what it replaces ..? If you go E7/PV you can also divert any excess the tank and “overheat” it as you can take a UVC to 85°C with no issues and add another 1/3rd hot water capacity which you cannot do with a Sunamp. A 200l “equivalent” Sunamp will cost the thick end of £2200 inc VAT. The same in a slimline direct UVC is £550 inc VAT. The ~£1600 difference buys a lot of electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, lakelandfolk said: "instant hot water on demand" without using gas the drew us to Sunamp. Wouldn't you get that with an UVC too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakelandfolk Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 Thanks Guys, I bow to your superior knowledge, yes you are correct, a basic electric only unit is £2380 supplied, £3290 fitted. The more I read the more confused. My Wife has suggested that we could remove a wardrobe in the ground floor bedroom to accommodate an UVC and the installation completed by a G3 qualified person. ie £550 + labour and additional materials. We will try to obtain a quotation next week. There are just two of us (retired) and the bulk of DHW is for showers, hand basins, sinks, and only the occasional bath. We notice that a UVC can be fitted with dual immersion heaters which might fit our usage pattern, but then we ask, is there an electronic control box on the market that would automatically maximise/switch between the 4 hour grid off peak, surplus solar generation and battery storage? We have 12.6 kwh battery storage and up to 6.3kwh solar and use Octopus Go to top the battery up. We also have an EV which is often charged during the off peak period. Are we expecting too much from our solar electricity/battery storage and off peak electricity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, lakelandfolk said: Thanks Guys, I bow to your superior knowledge, yes you are correct, a basic electric only unit is £2380 supplied, £3290 fitted. The more I read the more confused. My Wife has suggested that we could remove a wardrobe in the ground floor bedroom to accommodate an UVC and the installation completed by a G3 qualified person. ie £550 + labour and additional materials. We will try to obtain a quotation next week. There are just two of us (retired) and the bulk of DHW is for showers, hand basins, sinks, and only the occasional bath. We notice that a UVC can be fitted with dual immersion heaters which might fit our usage pattern, but then we ask, is there an electronic control box on the market that would automatically maximise/switch between the 4 hour grid off peak, surplus solar generation and battery storage? We have 12.6 kwh battery storage and up to 6.3kwh solar and use Octopus Go to top the battery up. We also have an EV which is often charged during the off peak period. Are we expecting too much from our solar electricity/battery storage and off peak electricity? Not at all. The benefit of dual immersion is that you can use one at 60oC to preheat at the 4/5 hours of octopus cheap rate, on a simple timer, and then have the second ( lower ) immersion set to 85oC and fed from PV excess. Any excess ( after the battery has topped up ) will just further ‘inflate’ the UVC, thus reducing the amount of grid power it consumes during the following overnight top up ( seasonal swings will affect how you manipulate this control ). During the depths of winter you could flip / flop between the two immersions to get more DHW per 4/5 hour charge and that will leave any solar free to help charge the batteries. Without your generation / consumption / export figures it is quite difficult to offer concrete solid answers / suggestions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakelandfolk Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 Many thanks Nick, this forum never fails to amaze me, so many kind folk ready to share and help. I am in my 83rd year but determined to do my bit for my grand children and theirs. We know the financial investment we have made over the past 5/6 years will not be recovered in my life time but we will continue as long as possible to reduce our carbon footprint. We have found a local heating engineer/plumber who is G3 qualified so will be seeking his advice next week re cost, (and potential disruption) of an UVC installation as you describe. We have a retrofitted Solax X1-AC inverter which converts AC back to DC for the battery charging. Not sure how sophisticated the Solax X1-AC is but I will ask the people next week who supplied and installed it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 @lakelandfolk have you got an attic space ..? You can get a horizontal UVC that wouldn’t take up that much space as long as you can get it through the hatch ! The Solax can’t control a diverter load other than battery but any of the Eddi/Immersun type devices can take excess load from PV off to the tank. You would still need a simple timer to use the Octopus Go tariff but once you’ve maxed that out you can either boost via solar diversion or just by a simple boost switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 @lakelandfolk Semd me a pm when you’re ready to purchase the UVC and I’ll make a call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 @lakelandfolk I would say “yes” you can DIY install. Exceptionally, I bought mine direct from Sunamp and asked that question (I was experiencing major problems with the individual contracted to do my M&E and thought it would come to a DIY install). Sunamp told me that provided it was installed in accordance with the instructions then the warranty would be good if I were to install it myself. The contracted individual did eventually do the plumbing for the Sunamp but refused to connect it to the mains so we got another electrician in to wire it up. Which took a few minutes. A few months later we had need to call on the warranty as our thermistor string failed. That was replaced rapidly by Sunamp, no questions asked. Despite that failure, where our only source of hot water was from the remaining energy stored in the PCM and a Quooker tap, if I were to start all over again I would definitely go for a Sunamp charged by solar PV and off peak electric. No gas/oil boiler, no heat pump just a silent (heavy) white box that produces lots of hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 11/03/2022 at 15:56, lakelandfolk said: Has anyone got experience of the latest Sunamps? Have they sorted out some of the issues? Yes. Problem free, fitted by a reputable company . Warranty only valid if fitted by a qualified company . I cannot stress enough that everyone should do a full and thorough Due Diligence before making any decisions , especially so on recommendation from any online source. Even Buildhub. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHD Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Just had a Thermino installed in the last few days: all working out as expected so far! https://www.earth.org.uk/note-on-solar-DHW-for-16WW-UniQ-and-PV-diversion.html#2022-03-09 Rgds Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Walker Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 11/03/2022 at 22:17, Nickfromwales said: For further context, in 15+ years of being heavily involved in the heating and hot water industry, encompassing the installation and service of both unvented hot water cylinders and Sunamp units, I've only been back to the 2 aforementioned UVC's where the manufacturer paid up for one. Sadly, the number of failed SA units I was asked to attend to ( by both SA and the clients they refused to service ) is 'substantially' more. Are you an authorised installer for Sunamp and what do you charge for an install? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 31 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: Warranty only valid if fitted by a qualified company Woooaahhh..!!! Is that now the case ..??! So the new Thermino units have to be fitted by installers ..?? So we have a unit with 2 pipes and 1 wire and a nice tidy £500 install bill for something with no moving parts or pressure vessel etc ..?? They really have decided that the market is ripe for abuse innovative products that can be upsold… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Adrian Walker said: Are you an authorised installer for Sunamp and what do you charge for an install? I think if you read @Nickfromwales comments carefully he wouldn’t go near one with a very long pole …. But I may be putting words in his mouth ..! 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 @Adrian Walker installer list is here https://sunamp.com/sunamp-resellers-installers/map/business-category/installers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Walker Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 18 minutes ago, PeterW said: @Adrian Walker installer list is here https://sunamp.com/sunamp-resellers-installers/map/business-category/installers/ Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakelandfolk Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 Hi Nick, We have decided, following the various SA experiences and comments from other forum members, to get a quote for a suitable 250L UVC from a highly recommended, G3 certified engineer who lives in our small community. https://www.heatershop.co.uk/solar-iboost-solar-immersion-controller is this the kind of control unit that you hinted at in your earlier posting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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