Floorplans - any suggestions welcome and appreciated!

[Selfbuildnewbie]

Hey everyone,
 

We’re demolishing an existing bungalow and replacing it with a 4-bed family home. We’d really appreciate any comments or suggestions on our design and floorplans.
 

Some context:

• Rear faces south
• Aim is to have open-plan living areas but with ability to close off the individual spaces
• The design of the roof height is deliberate to not be overbearing on the chalets (1.5 storeys) either side of us.
• Looking at how we might be able to add an additional small work space downstairs for when we both work from home (maybe convert living room cupboard?) – would appreciate ideas.
• Any thoughts on whether the skylights above the living room are needed to get more light into the living room or whether the fact we are south facing to the rear is sufficient? Worried about overheating in summer if we keep the skylights.
  
  
  
  

[CharlieKLP]

It’s certainly not the worst thing I’ve seen. I would say it was basically functional.
It’s so easily fixable, if you wanted it to be actually nice.

 

I think what’s sticking out at me first is the windows. They really don’t match with the size of the rooms, and the form of the house.

 

There are way too many sizes and shapes of window. On the rear there are 4 windows, with 3 different shapes and sizes. Then you have the doors. On the front the bay is the wrong proportion of window.
 

Either have two, or have three openings. The doors have 4. It’s just a mess to look at.

 

Usually when you have a gable, it’s nicer if there is some form of symmetry within the gable. Otherwise you get a lop-sided feel.

 

The second thing I don’t like, what is the style? And the proportion of the gables, the porch, just looks stuck on.

Did an architect do this? If so it’s poor. If you did it yourself I think that’s not bad.

 

i suppose I should ask, what do YOU think about it? Are you happy with that. Do you think you could love this house?

Edited February 17, 2022 by CharlieKLP

[Marvin]

Hi @Selfbuildnewbie

I am no expert but I like the overall design.

 

The bathroom between bed 2 and 3 seems to me to feel a little awkward, certainly when comparing it to the other two.

 

If you are going the full hog on the insulation you will have to pay attention to the solar gain aspect. We now require as much power on a very cold day to heat our modest home as we require to cool it on a very hot day!  

 

If you make sure the systems in the house will meet the demands  you will be fine.

 

I see PV. What else were you considering?

[Gus Potter]

Hiya @selfbuildnewbie

 

Good post and you have indicated the orientation.

 

Not sure about having the store on the front elevation.

 

Here is a thing. Folk on Build hub have an eye on the cost. Architect's say just don't put gridlines on their early concept drawings. It's bonkers as they also leave out critical dimensions so  it is really hard to see how the walls line up between the floors. I have been doing this for a while and most Client's appreciate it..  it makes it so much easier to have a discussion. If you can, try and put some gridlines on your drawings and see if it helps you locate things in your mind.

 

35 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said:

Usually when you have a gable, it’s nicer if there is some form of symmetry within the gable. Otherwise you get a lop-sided feel.

 

Charlie.. philistine here but is lopp sided not a indicator of art and crafts influence?

[CharlieKLP]

Arts and crafts is less symmetrical I guess. You would not find a gable with 4 different shaped windows on it though.

 

Just my opinion but you can get an easy win by simplifying the window panes.

 

 

[Gus Potter]

Charlie.. you know your stuff.. was just teasing. But yes the windows need some work and the massing is not just quite right..but my glasses are dirty tonight. I can't put my finger on it at the moment.

 

@Selfbuildnewbie  A few first thoughts. The entrance hall could maybe be improved. When you come in the front door you have to go almost through a corridor of doors to enter the main core of the house which is the stair.  The other thing for me is that you have a clear sightline right through the house to the French doors in the kitchen. I would seek to emphasise the size of the house (the length from front to back)

 

As you come in the front door you have this storage space to your left, a blank wall to your immediate right and then a shower room. Not very exciting.

 

What about shifting this storage space to the left side (east side) of the music room and making it a feature. Now you place double say glass doors to the music room almost as soon as you come in the front door (to your left)  with diffuse light coming into the hall. The idea is that you use what we call false perspective.. the perceived space widens as you come in the front door making the house seem even bigger and longer front to back.

 

The cupboard off the living room is small and with a bit of thought you can probably shift it somewhere else. You would make the opening through to the kitchen diner wider still. This would empahsise the stair. You could make the stair a little wider / grander.

 

Once you get this bit sorted you can then look upstairs.

 

It's not easy to do but there will be loads of folk here that will chip in to help you make an informed choice.

 

All the best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Gus Potter

[TerryE]

What is the point of the faux garage?  If you want a store room then having an internal store room / box room / drying room would make a lot more sense.  If it's in lieu of a garden shed, then this is going to work out as a very expensive garden shed in terms of floor area.  Just stick with a small garden shed for the garden stuff.  If this is a self-build then scan the forum on building passive standard or near.  We have one: all the rooms are the same temp within a degree or so; it costs little to keep it cozy (22½ °C everywhere).  You'll need decent insulation for slab, walls and roof to get the U-values under 0.15, air tight by design, MVHR, under floor heating.  You also need to think about services and their placement and service runs. 

 

Lastly think about low maintenance for the exterior: for example we have Alu-clad fenestration and black powder-coated eves and verges.  No more external pain peeling or redecoration before we kick the bucket!

[Iceverge]

Hi @Selfbuildnewbie and welcoms. 

 

I actually quite like the layout apart from the store. Like @TerryE says its an expensive shed. Turn it into a home office imo.

 

The outside looks a little wonky as @CharlieKLP says. I would start by posting a couple of pictures of the style of house you were going for. We can take it from there.

 

The orientation of the house and the form factor are good. If you could tidy up some of the junctions you could convince it to be a passivhaus. Have you considered it? 

 

 

 

[shuff27]

I'm not sure about the bathroom positioned between beds 2 & 3.  If the occupants of bed 3 use the shower early or late the occupants of bed 2 are going to know about it.

 

I never see the point of having both shower & separate bath & you have both in 2 bathrooms, plus another en suite.  Why not either a shower or a bath with shower head at one end?

 

The dreesing room looks too large in relation to the master bed size.

 

Too much glazing on the south elevation?  Those GF rooms may overheat.

 

Like @Gus Potter suggests I'd also remove both GF cupboards to make the hall wider.  I believe that having a really good sized entrance hall makes a great impression & is something (one of many things!) that distinguishes a well designed self build from a typical 'executive' developers house.

 

Similarly, the FF landing looks rather cramped considering the number of doors opening off it.

[LaCurandera]

Personally, we like the idea of having an ensuite off a dressing room, not the main bedroom. Both a bit more private and practical too. I'd move the door to the wall with the the sinks. 

Not sure about the store either, and especially as you can't get in to it from within the house. If you really wanted it you could reduce the width of the shower room to create space to have a door into the store, and it also would widen the impression of that part of the hall as @Gus Potter has said. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by LaCurandera

[Selfbuildnewbie]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far.

@CharlieKLP 

Functional is how I'd describe it as well. It more or less fits our brief in terms of function but it doesn't have any wow factor.  Do we like it, yes, do we love it, no.

 

Agree on the windows looking wonky - thanks for the drawings. We're considering replacing both of the French doors with slim-framed sliding doors (2-3 panes each) and putting a picture window from the kitchen (window 3 on your drawing) to increase the view out to the garden, and make the rear look less "busy" so that should help.  You say that the windows don't match the room sizes and the bay is wrongly proportioned - can you expand on those points please as to how we fix it? We're rubbish at that sort of thing and our architect perhaps doesn't have a great eye for detail.

 

I've attached a pic and Instagram link below which show the sort of style we were aiming for. The pic is what we initially showed the architect at the outset. The Instagram link (showing the rear) is probably more what we will end up going for. i.e. more of a "cottagey" style.

 

I agree with the comments about the gable proportions and the massing looking a bit off. We've really struggled to get that right.  The architect has deliberately done the gables that way so that our roof line at the front and back doesn't impose on next door which is a chalet with a lower roof height than us. But doing so has reduced the amount of full-height space in the Master and Bed 4 (see dotted lines on floor plan) and we wanted to retain full height as much as possible elsewhere, so the "middle" of the house has a higher roof line than the gable ends.  Any suggestions on how we fix that without too much reduced height space internally? We've been going round in circles on it for months trying to find a solution.

 

On the porch, I agree with you, it looks stuck on on the front, but the other half likes it!  I couldn't think of a way to make it look better. ?

 

@Gus Potter , the hallway's boring isn't it?!  I like your ideas. We had thought that a c. 3m wide hallway would seem quite big but are you suggesting it actually won't because of the length?  Our challenge is storage, with a young and growing family who are inherently untidy. The cupboard on the left is a coat/shoe cupboard, near the front door.  If we get rid of that, the only other obvious option I can see is a cupboard under the stairs but that's a long way from the front door.  Knowing my family, we'd just end up with a heap of coats and shoes piled by the front door!  If I can solve the coat cupboard issue, we'll definitely explore your idea of the doors to the music room (it's actually a playroom, no idea why he called it that) although glass doors would mean you can see all the mess in there as soon as you step through the front door, so need to give that some thought. 

 

@TerryE  @Iceverge

Re. the glorified "shed" on the front of the house, it's not in lieu of a garden shed (the garden's reasonably large and ample room for that). The purpose of the store room is for more day to day storage: the buggy, my daughters' tricycles and bikes,  my smelly hockey gear that the other half won't let near the house etc. I'd love to get rid of the store room and move the study downstairs but, if we did, I'm not sure where that stuff would go. 

 

@shuff27, the bathroom between beds 2 & 3 looks a bit more awkward I agree, I think partly because the architect's been lazy with the bathroom layout on the plans. But I was trying to find a way (and failing) to make the bathroom longer and still access beds 2&3. The other bedrooms have en-suites so the main bathroom will primarily be shared between my two daughters. We didn't want a bathroom onto the front or back of the house for aesthetic reasons so I think we may have to compromise and leave where it is, unless anyone has any ideas. 

 

6 hours ago, shuff27 said:

Too much glazing on the south elevation?  Those GF rooms may overheat.

Quite possibly so, although I've struggled to think of a solution, aside from removing the rooflights, without taking away the views of the garden from the kitchen/diner and living room.

 

Sorry, that ended up being a long post!

 

Style:

To give you an idea of the sort of style we'd envisioned (although maybe less yellow!), and also considering something like this: https://www.instagram.com/p/B6h2uNylu0O/?utm_medium=share_sheet)

 

 

[CharlieKLP]

@Selfbuildnewbie for what it’s worth, I think you have done everything right.

 

The image you provided is far better than what you have been designed. I also think you have a good attitude to the design process and are asking the right questions.

 

I think your designer has let you down with no ‘spark’.

 

if you had come to me with that style image to start from, and a workable arrangement of rooms and open attitude, I’d have been delighted.

 

If I were you, I’d send them the image and go ‘no. More like that’ and try again. It’s got all the proportions and hierarchy of the front so much better than the layout you have been drawn. Even the store looks quite pretty the way they have done it. I’d have pushed it back but it’s quite tidy. It’s a pretty house tbh.

 

it could also work with a hipped roof if you wanted.

[bassanclan]

Is it that much different than a mass produced estate new build?

[ETC]

[redtop]

On 17/02/2022 at 22:54, Gus Potter said:

Hiya @selfbuildnewbie

 

Good post and you have indicated the orientation.

 

Not sure about having the store on the front elevation.

 

Here is a thing. Folk on Build hub have an eye on the cost. Architect's say just don't put gridlines on their early concept drawings. It's bonkers as they also leave out critical dimensions so  it is really hard to see how the walls line up between the floors. I have been doing this for a while and most Client's appreciate it..  it makes it so much easier to have a discussion. If you can, try and put some gridlines on your drawings and see if it helps you locate things in your mind.

 

 

Charlie.. philistine here but is lopp sided not a indicator of art and crafts influence?

Good point re the gridlines. If i understand you correctly its so you can see how the downstairs walls line up with upstairs? If so, spot on and very useful. Our architect did great drawings, unfortunately the downstairs soil didn't line up with upstairs... As i built it myself i adjusted as i went along but this sort of detail at the start makes it easier later.

[redtop]

Passed this past the wife, who knows everything, and considering other threads, is always right. She prefers the architect designed one to the photo! She likes thats its a bit 'off', makes it look interesting. Photo one looks OK but a decent bog standard build, so not really standing out as a self build / different.

[CharlieKLP]

I like ETC’s. 

 

Every part has a different ‘feel’ to it, and he has balanced the proportions.

 

On the original design it is like the entrance and the store has the same weight. Your entrance should be more important than where you stick the lawnmower. 
 

Although I don’t know about the ridge heights since people don’t post context on these threads for anonymity reasons I guess, you could still trim the roof corners off should the planners complain.

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

Just want to say that I really enjoy these threads. Seeing everyone’s opinion come together to help guide design is great. Thanks to all those qualified peeps who spend their time doing it for free (and obv have a passion and enjoy it). 
 

Thanks!

[Selfbuildnewbie]

17 hours ago, bassanclan said:

Is it that much different than a mass produced estate new build?

Don’t necessarily disagree with you but I guess whether that matters depends on the reason for building and also the need to be in keeping with the surrounding houses. 

 

It’s probably not our forever home, I’d want to design something way more funky than this if that was the case. Our priority for now is getting the layout/space we want (a premium in our neck of the woods) whilst controlling build costs to the extent it’s in our control. So we’re deliberately keeping the design quite simple. We’d be paying well over £1m to buy something similar. 

[Selfbuildnewbie]

5 hours ago, CharlieKLP said:

I like ETC’s. 

 

Every part has a different ‘feel’ to it, and he has balanced the proportions.

yeah, I like it as well. Thanks ETC. The front elevation clearly needs work, and this looks much more in proportion than our design. Not sure about the skylight but I assume the only other option is sticking another dormer in there instead. 
 

yes, architect is pretty insistent that we’d need to trim the roof corners given next door’s height and the windows on their side elevations. 

[CharlieKLP]

The back could use the same treatment, just make that single storey area a bit longer. You might want to make your bedroom the main gable, and give it’s dressing room a skylight. It’s more cost effective.

 

honestly I think once you fix that you have a lovely house on your hands, personally I would find it hard to sell, nice layout, nice elevations. Has personality but makes sense and isn’t weird or anything. Hope you get planning.

Edited February 20, 2022 by CharlieKLP

[Selfbuildnewbie]

Thanks Charlie, really appreciate the help.

 

Would something like the picture below work for the front?  Just in terms of the form of the gable and the porch, not the house style. Our house would be a mirror image of what's in the pic.  

 

I think this would mean reducing the width of the gable on the RHS of our house, similar to ETC's drawing and just having the store room (or a study) and Bed 4 in that space . And then add a front door and porch similar to the pic below between the gable and our bay window as more of a focal point. We can tweak internally if it works on the outside.

 

I would appreciate opinions on whether this, or something similar, might work before we start lots of back and forth with the architect. Any obvious issues with it?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[ETC]

Personally it looks a bit twee - more something you’d see in rural Europe or America. Plus it will need lots of maintenance and a few tins of Cuprinol. If it was me I’d keep it simple.

[CharlieKLP]

I wouldn’t do that either, even without the crazy amount of timber it’s still a lot of shape complexity that isn’t necessary. I don’t see how you could bring in a front porch and still have enough room for the study window above.

 

If you have your heart set on a front gabled porch then the house isn’t the right shape to look right.

[Selfbuildnewbie]

Noted, thanks again!