Locating Services & Demolition

[Weebles]

Hi - hoping for some help here.

I have a bungalow (South Oxon) that needs demolishing.  (Plans in planning and got approved by local council meeting this week, planning office here tomorrow).

Got lots of asbestos.  That is another problem.  Need an asbestos survey but advised to move out first.

So trying to sort out a caravan for our temporary accommodation.

But need to locate the services.

Have dug and found the electricity supply.

Haven't located the gas pipe and there are no plans available.  National Grid EAGLES not very helpful at all (said there is no record of anything in our vicinity!)

Can't locate the clean water supply and Thames Water haven't mapped our area (what the map shows is incorrect but we do know where the water meter is, out in the pavement across the access road).

Any suggestions for locating the gas and water?

And what do we need to do once we have found them?  Does anyone have any experience of not going via the gas supplier to cap off the gas supply i.e. using a contractor?

We will need water into our caravan and water for site - what is the usual thing to do?

And with the elec, we will need that for the caravan and for site - any advice?

 

Anything else I need to think of re services?  This whole project is so daunting my head feels like it will explode.  Apologies in advance for so many questions (and more to come).  

[PeterW]

So first off, get hold of a CAT and signal genny from a hire shop -shouldn't be too expensive. 

 

Attach the genny to the incoming water pipe at the stop tap and then it will give you a decent signal to trace the water back to the road - just mark it with marker spray as you go and then take measurements and photos ..!

 

Gas can be slightly more complex depending on the pipe used. Some will pick up easily on radio on the CAT, sometimes it's easier to just dig ..!!

[Weebles]

Thanks PeterW - this sounds like a plan for the weekend then.  

[Declan52]

If the water or gas pipes are plastic then the cat and Genny won't work. Needs something metal in it to conduct the signal. 

Can use dowsing rods to find water pipes including sewers and drains.

Unless the gas pipe has been covered in marker tape which has a wire in it it's pretty much undetectable.  Gas companies can insert a wire down their pipes and trace it that way.

Only sure fire way detection tool I have came across is the teeth of a mini digger and I have hit everything from a 25mm water pipe to a 33kv cable.

[PeterW]

@Declan52 is right - can you see the water pipe into the house ..? If it's blue MDPE then you may struggle unless it's got tape over it. 

 

When was the house built ..?

[Ian]

@Weebles

Our situation was very similar to yours.

Believe it or not a local water diviner found our plastic water pipe for us after a day's searching with a digger had failed (we'd been looking in the wrong place!). I honestly thought divining was bunkum but when you see it work with your own eyes - well....

(the guy said he had worked as a water diviner for the National Trust)

Edited April 28, 2017 by Ian

[Ferdinand]

@Weebles

 

Re the gas, do you mean 'cap' or 'disconnect' ?

 

If you mean cap so you can strip the gas appliances and pipes to weigh in for cash, then any gas man will do it at the meter in1 minute.

 

If you mean disconnect at the road then you are into your provider or network operator as discussed above.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Ferdinand

[ProDave]

Re the electric. You need to get a quote from your DNO to move the supply out of the house, to an outside meter box of some sort (which you must provide). The actual connection must be done by your DNO but you can do some of the work, e.g trenching.

 

You can either take the view this outside meter box is temporary, then pay again to have the supply moved into the new house. Or do as several on here have done, make the outside meter box a permanent thing and when the house is build just run a SWA submain into the house from there.

 

Once you have the meter in a box, any electrician will connect a supply to the static caravan and a site socket or two, both of which must be connected to a TT earth, not the DNO's earth.

 

Likewise your water. when you have located the pipe, all you need is a plumber to divert it to a standpipe and into the caravan.  If you find an old rusty steel pipe, now is the time to replace it with mdpe back to the stopcock.

 

P.S where in South Oxfordshire? that is my old stomping ground.

[Russell griffiths]

With regards the water, if you know where the meter is then this is all you need as you will probably run a new pipe from the meter into the new house, so no need to actually find the old pipe, just its origin. 

[Mr Punter]

When you get an asbestos survey, get a good one as your licensed contractor will base their quote on this and if they have missed anything it may be that your contractor has to re-configure the airtight enclosure.  Get a shortlist of three licensed removers and ask who they recommend for the survey.

[Ferdinand]

Obviously do not cut corners on asbestos unless you are a professional yourself.

 

My dad was killed by asbestos from (we think) being a supervisory architect on a short 6 week project 40 years earlier.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Bitpipe]

Been there and done all of that  in Berkshire.

 

Can't argue with any of the advice above. Just to summarise what we did:

 

- Water : just ran new services (32mm MPDE) back to boundary stopcock. We struggled to find this initially but the local water firm sent out a nice chap (for free) who found it deep in a hedge.

- Electricity : got a quote from the DNO to move to a permanent koisk. I did all of the onsite DNO cable location, trenching and ducting to the new kiosk and then got my spark to run temps from that to the old house and caravan & site office. DNO only had to do the jointing and meter installation which minimised the cost (about £500). Note, we planned that the kiosk be the final home for the meter - some will only have temp supply and take it back into the house on completion but this means another DNO callout and fees.

- Gas: got our GS engineer to disconnect back to the meter and then National Grid came to disconnect the meter and cap off supply at site perimeter. This cost £1500, non contestable and given they were onsite for about half a day, a bit of a rip off. Your supplier will want to collect the meter to cancel your account. NG then charge a subsidised rate for re-connection depending on the length of pipe needed, you need to trench and supply the yellow duct.

- asbestos: got a survey but were lucky in that there was very little and it did not require specialist removal.

 

Also give thought to your foul drainage, if you are on mains then you should have this surveyed and/or get plans from your local water firm with invert levels etc so you can ensure that your new services are appropriate.

 

It is a bit to get your head round but think it through as some co-ordination on services now will save you cost later. A good groundworker will take all of this in their stride and can advise on how to minimise costs.

 

[Weebles]

Thanks everyone.  That is alot of information.  Am hoping not to try the mini digger way of finding pipes but we'll see!

 

Bungalow was a flat pack apparently bought at a show at the NEC in 1966-68.  Built on a thin slab which explains why it is so darn cold in here.  We are in Henley.

 

Gas pipe is yellow and plastic.  We have found where it goes into the meter on the box on the side of the house and will now probably just dig to see where it goes back to the boundary.  We want to reconnect to the new house when it is built so we are looking to disconnect temporarily (not cap off permanently, my mistake).  

 

Water - anyone know a water diviner / dowser round the Reading area? - happy to try it.  The meter is 5m off the property boundary and pipes run under a road and it isn't easy to see the direction of them.  Can't see pipes into the house (not obvious at all).  Haven't found the boundary stop cock yet though a neighbour reckons it is under a hedge somewhere so will take another good look.  

 

Elec - not sure we can do a permanent meter box as we are potentially going to relocate the property entrance so temporary might be better.  But will think on that.

 

Asbestos - thanks for the advice (Mr Punter and Ferdinand, and sorry about your Dad, Ferdinand).  This is a big problem that we didn't envisage.  And a costly one too.  First quote £18K (no demolishing in that, just asbestos removal) and need to move out before a proper survey can be done as it is so invasive (and staying safe is a top priority).  Currently clearing some trees and looking at static caravans.  At this rate we will end up spending close to £50K to have no house at all!

[Ferdinand]

8 hours ago, Weebles said:

Haven't found the boundary stop cock yet though a neighbour reckons it is under a hedge somewhere so will take another good look.  

 

If you need to find the mini water stop tap cover then why not try a metal detector?

Edited May 5, 2017 by Ferdinand