ASHP " buffer "?

[Pocster]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Car windscreen is frosted up. Do you wait for it to defrost naturally, which will take ages and mean you have to delay going to the shops and you can’t get what you want, or do you get a kettle full of hot water from inside the house that has been preheated and use that ..?? 

Tipping hot kettle water over your frosted windscreen ?? ?

[PeterW]

2 minutes ago, pocster said:

Tipping hot kettle water over your frosted windscreen ?? ?

Hot.. warm..? Didn’t say boiling ..? ?

 

How do you clear the frost off the walk on glazing ….?? Shame you’ve not got some spares to see if we can experiment .. oh wait …

[SteamyTea]

4 minutes ago, pocster said:

Tipping hot kettle water over your frosted windscreen

Not our windscreen, so boiling will work.

[Onoff]

22 minutes ago, PeterW said:

How do you clear the frost off the walk on glazing ….??

 

Leave it. Just mop it up after it's melted and leaked through inside. Or collect in one of the many buckets. 

[Onoff]

33 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Car windscreen is frosted up. Do you wait for it to defrost naturally

 

I just press a button and it clears as if by magic.

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Im in my car. I drive along & it starts raining. I turn on the wipers.

 

I do nothing. The sensor picks up it's raining and the wipers start.

[Onoff]

32 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

We can use something similar when this latest installation is fitted and rattling like @Onoff's Peugeot.

 

Shall I start the topic now, or wait till later.

 

It doesn't rattle anymore I'll have you know. Nice and quite by some stroke of luck on my part. 

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

It doesn't rattle anymore I'll have you know. Nice and quite by some stroke of luck on my part. 

Have you got a really rattlyold peugeout? Youhave gone up in my estimation if you have.

[zoothorn]

@PeterW

 Peter, only you can answer this. Ive been trying for 2 years to get the answer to this. Please can you help.

 

What is my system doing currently, pumping water around only the inside of my house, at 2.54am. This is the rhetorical question I need answering ( in order to try understanding what this new system might, possibly, do). So again I will attempt to expand thus;

 

Vaillant tell me ( to my complete consternation & utter bewilderment ) that it is not pumping this infuriating night cycled water to the outside of the house. Furthermore, I can see no pipes for water to take this route ( I see only high pressure gas pipes between the inside & outside ). So I know then, that this night water cycled whatever on earth it is, has no relevance to the defrosting of any outside hardware. Fact. Known. Vaillant tell me so. Pipes show me so.
 

Of course why this sitiation should be so... is incredulous to me if the outside, is the only place susceptible to frost: therefore the question remains: why isn't this water being pumped ONLY around the outside hardware, the only place it is absolutely logically needed, not around ONLY the inside of the house, where it is absolutely illogically not needed?

 

Chaps, I am desperate to get to the bottom of this riddle. It has plagued me for 2 years, & I cannot make an informed decision on any replacement..... until...... I get the answer.

 

Thanks, Zoot.

 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Ok. 
 

The defrost cycle requires heat to be conveyed from one place to the other. So;

To heat your house the external heat exchanger ( big box with fans that lives outside ) is utilised to collect low grade heat energy from outside air. That is collected and transported by the F-gas in the gas lines which travel from that external box to the internal compressor unit ( inside the bedroom ) eg the unit where all the current noise and pain emanates from. 
 

The F-gas goes into the compressor and it chugs away producing the higher grade heat which is then pumped around your radiators and DHW tank to make them ‘hot’. That is “heating mode”. 
 

So, after doing heating mode for a long time in adverse external conditions the external heat exchanger starts to get so cold it starts to freeze up, continuing to do so until the brain box realises this and takes action. This is called “defrost mode”.
 

In defrost mode the whole process is reversed. 
 

The water gets circulated around the heating system so the heat energy in that water, even if it’s cold, can be sent to the internal compressor unit to have that heat energy sucked back out. That heat energy gets converted and sent back to outside via the F-gas lines to the external heat exchanger. That elevated gas temp in the external heat exchanger causes it to melt the ice. The brain box waits until the F-gas temps tell it that icing is no longer present and the system resets. If there is still call for heating it will then do the whole process over again……possibly more than once per evening. 
 

If it is doing this when heating is turned off then it’s a design or software fcuk up, plain and simple. Nothing external with an F-gas heat exchanger needs antifreeze to prevent ‘freezing’ and there is no need for frost protection as outside air temps won’t make a toss of difference to this system / cause damage in extreme weather ( if as I said the heating demand is off at that time ). 
 

Regardless of whether the external unit is at 0oC or lower, the system should not boot up to to ‘defrost’ it, as that is not necessary. If the heating was called for at that time, whilst the external heat exchanger is Baltic cold, the brain box would just check to see if the F-gas temp suggests the external unit is indeed an ice cube and would then initiate a defrost cycle and initiate that reverse of heat energy flow as above ( eg start your radiator pump circuiting water to steal that heat for the purpose of defrosting the external heat exchanger ). 
 

To now answer your actual question. 
 

The water in your heating circuit MUST circulate in defrost mode. If it didn’t then the internal compressor would just absorb the heat energy in the slug of water that was in that heat exchanger and then have no more access to the heat energy from the heating circuit water. You see it must circulate that water, or when in reverse ( aka defrost mode ) it would have nowhere to get the required heat from to send back outside via the noisy compressor. 
 

I have not gone balls deep in scientific facts here, so the rest of you don not nit-pick please!!

 

Ok #2. 
 

This unit and all its ugly attributes, characteristics and annoyances will be leaving, ( if you just give the order ), so essentially this was a waste of my time typing out. However;

 

As you felt hard done by with some of the previous comments, ( and I genuinely apologise if any of mine actually offended or upset you in any way, I was just trying to add some joviality in my own ‘quirky’ way ), I have made this final effort to try to help you move on with your life snd to understand how the current sack of shit is functioning. 
 

I highly expect you to reply to say that at 02:54 there was no need for this to go into defrost mode, and none of this should be happening, but I honestly don’t care anymore about what your current setup is doing because it needs ripping out and binning. Simples. It’s already dead and buried afaic so PLEASE move forwards and end this madness. 
 

I would have used more capital letters but one of my previous replies used up my 2022 quota of capitals……so, to type the above I had to buy a £5 add-on to my capital letter allowance. Hope I don’t need another lot until my allowance refreshes 01 jan 2023…..

 

sorry, not enough left for a capital j in jan.

 

Get the new system fitted. For the love of Christ. 

[Onoff]

7 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Have you got a really rattlyold peugeout? Youhave gone up in my estimation if you have.

 

Well, SWMBO has. Year 2000. She loves the thing. It was the victim of a hit and run so a bit sorry round the front end. It was destined for the scrapper but as my lad had just passed his test I figured spend a few hundred & do it up for him to "learn" around our tight country lanes. Then Covid hit and he's not really used it. SWMBO uses it for the school run. More new parts now than Trigger's Broom. Parts are cheap  though. I happen to quite like French cars though many don't. Tbh it's a nippy little runabout. Compact but roomy enough inside. Easy to wash with half a bucket! ?

 

Debating getting a recon/exchange rear subframe for it. 

 

Could do with coming off the road for some bodywork tlc. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Onoff

[joe90]

I have had various small Peugeot’s and done high mileage in them, yes  I get it. Recently saw a 205 in a local garage and considered it fir my daughter, low tech, easy to maintain .

[Nickfromwales]

12 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I have had various small Peugeot’s and done high mileage in them, yes  I get it. Recently saw a 205 in a local garage and considered it fir my daughter, low tech, easy to maintain .

ABS? Airbags?  

[joe90]

3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

ABS? Airbags?  

Yes my classic has no seat belts, the crumple zone is your face (but it looks good)

[SteamyTea]

15 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

29 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I have had various small Peugeot’s and done high mileage in them, yes  I get it. Recently saw a 205 in a local garage and considered it fir my daughter, low tech, easy to maintain .

ABS? Airbags

I had a serous head on in my 205, then got rear ended.

Only 2 months in hospital and another 6 recovering.

Now, 36 years later, the aches and pains in my neck are getting really serious.

But it crumpled like it was meant to and saved my life.

[PeterW]

7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

but I honestly don’t care anymore about what your current setup is doing because it needs ripping out and binning. Simples. It’s already dead and buried afaic so PLEASE move forwards and end this madness. 

+1 (and a few more) to what he is saying … 

[Nickfromwales]

11 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I had a serous head on in my 205, then got rear ended.

Only 2 months in hospital and another 6 recovering.

Now, 36 years later, the aches and pains in my neck are getting really serious.

But it crumpled like it was meant to and saved my life.

Would you buy that car again, or would you buy a better one with a better crash test ( NCAP ) rating? VW Golf for example. Cheap as chips, strong as an Ox, great NCAP rating.

We digress………

 

Anyhoo. Where’s Zoot? I cannot move onto the next life without sorting this first. The 21 virgins are starting to get impatient though!!

[markc]

Only the other day I was wondering what had happen to Zoot and heating-gate 

[Nickfromwales]

25 minutes ago, markc said:

Only the other day I was wondering what had happen to Zoot and heating-gate 

We’ll get there, eventually…..

[SteamyTea]

48 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Would you buy that car again

I did, well the insurance company did, and gave me £2,500 extra for my pain and time off work.

But Abbey National took me to court for unpaid mortgage.

Compensation was so different back in the 1980s.

[SteamyTea]

17 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

We’ll get there, eventually

Back to resistance heating at 30p.kWh^-1.

 

He will have to put the price up in the rented rooms.

[Pocster]

11 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Chaps, I am desperate to get to the bottom of this riddle. It has plagued me for 2 years

I think that’s the same for all of us 

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

serous head in 2015 , then got rear ended

?????

Edited February 9, 2022 by pocster

[SteamyTea]

Just now, pocster said:

?????

Dirty bugger.

But yes, that as well, once.

[markc]

That’s my tea sprayed over my desk!