What size hole to leave in partitions?

[Crofter]

I'm building my internal stud partitions but will probably get a joiner to do the fiddly final fitting of doors, frames, architrave etc. So I just need to leave a space that will allow him (or her!) to do their thing. I guess this comes down to the sizes of timber that are generally used around the door frame- and obviously what size doors are used.

[Onoff]

And what thickness of floor covering maybe?

[PeterW]

900 x 2050 on all ours ... 

[MikeSharp01]

9 hours ago, PeterW said:

900 x 2050 on all ours ... 

@PeterWdoes this not depend on the door size (762 / 838 / ?), the gap under the door, the clearance at the door head and the wall finish around the door, shadow gap or no shadow gap for instance - depending on how the shadow gap is formed, will the door lining be directly on the stud and architraved, what thickness will the lining be(30 / 27.5 / ?).  Alternatively is gap filling the order of the day.

[Nickfromwales]

Also differs for fire doors . @Crofter, if you can do what you've done so far then you'll be fine with daft stuff like skirts and arc's. 

Get a chippy to give a unit price for lining, door swung with furniture and arc's and then just skirt to them. 

Fitting flooring first would be ideal, is it wooden / carpet ? 

[Crofter]

Thanks all

going to be bamboo flooring, just the 10mm stuff. Jury still out on whether to go with electric UFH which affects the FFL (side note- the UFH would be lovely but the depth of bedding compound needed means the whole thing is starting to look just too expensive).

I have built whole partitions including doors etc before, in my previous house, so I know that I can do it, but I remember it being a bit fiddly and it's the kind of work that is very much 'on show'. With speed becoming more and more of the essence, I was thinking of contracting this bit out to someone who would probably do all three (!) doorways in a morning, compared to me taking a few days.

[Bitpipe]

We spec'd the door openings as 900x2100 to accommodate metric doors (826x2040). Many of these had to be FD30 and we had to hunt about for suitable linings - Howdens do a metric FD30 lining but rarely have it in stock - from memory it was 32mm thick so it just worked, allowing a few mm around the door for tolerances.

 

Have to admit, while our joiner did a decent job, there was a lot of labour involved (especially hanging the fire doors which are heavy).

 

Pre-hung door sets could have worked out cheaper in the long run, although we saved a few £ buying the equivalent door hardware elsewhere. Also, we'd probably have ditched the architrave in favour of the one we used that matches the skirting.

[Nickfromwales]

http://www.uheat.co.uk/140w-m2-electric-under-wood-laminate-heating-mat/?gclid=CNvckPueodMCFbQW0wodaFkPfQ

 

An option if your willing to float the floor? 

[Crofter]

On 13 April 2017 at 12:13, Nickfromwales said:

http://www.uheat.co.uk/140w-m2-electric-under-wood-laminate-heating-mat/?gclid=CNvckPueodMCFbQW0wodaFkPfQ

 

An option if your willing to float the floor? 

 

Just dredging this one back up. Is this UFH basically the same as this: 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Under-Laminate-Wood-Foil-Underfloor-Heating-Mat-Kit-All-Sizes-Listing-/322292379413?var=&hash=item4b0a1f6f15:m:mrxqcqAeNSNOXV-w111lHIw

 

And am I right in thinking that for a floating floor I would need to add a layer of 6mm foam underlay?

 

I'm quite tempted to go down this route as it looks much quicker and easier than a bonded floor with the UFH embedded in adhesive. Not to mention cheaper too.

[Ferdinand]

40 minutes ago, Crofter said:

 

Just dredging this one back up. Is this UFH basically the same as this: 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Under-Laminate-Wood-Foil-Underfloor-Heating-Mat-Kit-All-Sizes-Listing-/322292379413?var=&hash=item4b0a1f6f15:m:mrxqcqAeNSNOXV-w111lHIw

 

And am I right in thinking that for a floating floor I would need to add a layer of 6mm foam underlay?

 

I'm quite tempted to go down this route as it looks much quicker and easier than a bonded floor with the UFH embedded in adhesive. Not to mention cheaper too.

 

I do not usually glue floating floors, as I like click fit that can be relifted.

 

I do sometimes put down either commercial quality underlay or double at right angles depending, and an isolation / slip layer to let it move. It can help make it more resilient and quieter.

 

Really it is all judgement calls.

 

F

[Crofter]

8 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

I do not usually glue floating floors, as I like click fit that can be relifted.

 

I do sometimes put down either commercial quality underlay or double at right angles depending, and an isolation / slip layer to let it move. It can help make it more resilient and quieter.

 

Really it is all judgement calls.

 

F

 

There's a lot of trade offs with this decision.

Floating floor = foam instead of adhesive, which is easier/faster/cheaper- but need to use click flooring which is c.£7/m2 more expensive.

Bonded floor= wet trade, buying sufficient bedding compound to bed in UFH mats gets expensive very quickly. But you can use cheaper T&G flooring and get a more solid feeling finish.

 

And then I wonder if I'm being OTT and I don't really need any sort of UFH at all.

[PeterW]

I don't think you can bond down the foil mats - they are laminate only and need to sit directly below the flooring. 

 

Given you have a 99% timber structure, adding a layer of cement based adhesive to give you thermal layer for a heating wire system seems odd - I would either go for no heating or the foil one. Click laminate shouldn't be much more expensive as most are that now anyway (or is this because of what's available locally..??)

[Crofter]

Yup that is what I thought too. 6mm foam underlay to bed the UFH mats between the two hard surfaces. Foil type mat to help spread the heat more evenly.

I've looked into a bonded system already but it feels like a heck of a lot of hassle and expense.

 

I'm looking at bamboo, with the T&G costing £21-22 and the click being £27-£28 or thereabouts. Didn't think laminate was going to cut it, bamboo sounds much more resilient.

 

SWMBO thinks we don't need anything at all... just a heated towel rail and maybe one panel or plinth heater. It's only a 40m2 space after all, and if it gets really cold there's the woodburner. But with the house being up on stilts I'm a bit worried about the floor losing too much heat.

[Ferdinand]

@Crofter

38 minutes ago, Crofter said:

SWMBO thinks we don't need anything at all

 

Have you a perception issue for your high end holiday let in Skye? They will be wrong, but they may act on "wrong".

 

1 hour ago, Crofter said:

There's a lot of trade offs with this decision.

 

I know. The agony is exquisite, isn't it? I am still swinging in the wind on my thread about my floor buildhup.

 

F

[Stones]

2 hours ago, Crofter said:

Yup that is what I thought too. 6mm foam underlay to bed the UFH mats between the two hard surfaces. Foil type mat to help spread the heat more evenly.

I've looked into a bonded system already but it feels like a heck of a lot of hassle and expense.

 

I'm looking at bamboo, with the T&G costing £21-22 and the click being £27-£28 or thereabouts. Didn't think laminate was going to cut it, bamboo sounds much more resilient.

 

SWMBO thinks we don't need anything at all... just a heated towel rail and maybe one panel or plinth heater. It's only a 40m2 space after all, and if it gets really cold there's the woodburner. But with the house being up on stilts I'm a bit worried about the floor losing too much heat.

 

I think your good lady is right.  I think UFH would be overkill and a waste of money. How about a duct heater for your MVHR instead, coupled with the towel rail in the shower room and a plinth heater in the main room for instant boost heating?

 

Duct heaters circa £200. Set the duct heater on a simple thermostat. 

 

One of my former neighbours uses a duct heater and two electric radiators to heat his 250m2+ house without difficulty. I'm sure that would be more than enough for your place. 

[ProDave]

It's a perception thing. We are having UFH in the two bathrooms. Not because I think it's needed, but because SWMBO thinks it's needed.  In my case it's only short runs using left over pipe from the last house, so all it is going to cost is some spreader plates and a small manifold.

[Nickfromwales]

Is anyone taking into consideration the ventilation heat loss form the wood burning stove? On a a very windy, bitterly cold day / night, what will be needed to keep the place comfortable?

[Stones]

Cant disagree with that.

 

What you have to keep at the front of your mind is that this is a holiday let, and all guests will care about is that it is warm and cozy. They are not going to care how that is achieved, and the simpler / more automated it is, i.e. the building is always at a constant temperature so they are not having to fiddle with controls, the better.

[Cpd]

The cottage that i am refitting only has a ground floor area of 50m2 but it has an upstairs as well, i will be fitting background low level / unobtrusive heating set on a thermostat, there is an existing log burning stove that is there for fun. I am not going down the underfloor heating road as there is a lot of comming and going from people and i dont think i will get a quick enough response time from UFH. Had not considered the inline duct heating but this could be a better option if space is a premium. I think people are right that you need to keep it as simple as possible with the option to boost the temperature if the clients require it, ie a fan heater. 

 

[Crofter]

The stove is room sealed with an external intake so, unless some numpty decides to run it with the door open, there shouldn't be any loss of heat that way. I'll hide the box of matches under an instruction sheet for the stove.

 

I don't think response time would be too bad for a foil UFH mat in direct contact with 10mm bamboo flooring. It's not the same as heating up a screed.

 

I suppose it's the elegance of UFH that appeals- in a small house you don't have much free wall space and cluttering it up with heaters would be a shame. The plinth heater, that I think Jason mentioned first on another thread, does achieve the same thing in some ways though. It would also be great for giving the place a quick blast when guests first arrive. And a heated towel rail is really just taking up the space that an ordinary towel rail would occupy.

 

I do think I will need some sort of programmable heating that allows you to wake up to a warm house, though. A plinth fan heater doesn't sound like the ideal method, but perhaps it could work if it had a low and quiet power setting?

[Nickfromwales]

4 hours ago, Cpd said:

I am not going down the underfloor heating road as there is a lot of comming and going from people and i dont think i will get a quick enough response time from UFH

The last let I stayed in had UFH and a simple laminated card saying "Please set the room thermostats to 21oC for heating. Please turn off when you vacate" or words to that effect. That's what we did and at 20oC the place never overheated and never went cold. 

[Stones]

2 hours ago, Crofter said:

The stove is room sealed with an external intake so, unless some numpty decides to run it with the door open, there shouldn't be any loss of heat that way. I'll hide the box of matches under an instruction sheet for the stove.

 

I don't think response time would be too bad for a foil UFH mat in direct contact with 10mm bamboo flooring. It's not the same as heating up a screed.

 

I suppose it's the elegance of UFH that appeals- in a small house you don't have much free wall space and cluttering it up with heaters would be a shame. The plinth heater, that I think Jason mentioned first on another thread, does achieve the same thing in some ways though. It would also be great for giving the place a quick blast when guests first arrive. And a heated towel rail is really just taking up the space that an ordinary towel rail would occupy.

 

I do think I will need some sort of programmable heating that allows you to wake up to a warm house, though. A plinth fan heater doesn't sound like the ideal method, but perhaps it could work if it had a low and quiet power setting?

 

Appreciate that a plinth heater isn't an elegant solution which is why I'm thinking an inline electric duct heater might be the best of both worlds.

 

Easy and cheap to install, easy to control (room thermostat) and would distribute warm air to both your living and sleeping spaces. Nothing visible for your guests to see other than a wall mounted stat. 

 

 

[Crofter]

@Stones the downside is, I believe, the low specific heat capacity of air. I might have to run some numbers to see how well this would work. Hopefully it will be OK, given the small space involved, as well as the predominantly summer occupancy, good levels of insulation, and the availability of the stove as a backup/supplement.

I might still go for a plinth heater anyway, given they are really cheap and would give an instant blast of heat if the house had been unoccupied for a while.

[Stones]

@Crofter  IIRC, the idea behind the passive house heating requirement was to enable the delivery of what heating requirement there was via an inline duct heater, i.e. heating the supply air. Hopefully that gives you a starter for ten re heating capacity, and as you say, given that the build will mainly be occupied in mild or warm weather, something that could fit the bill.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Stones