Ashp.. new chapter. Help pls.

[zoothorn]

 

[ProDave]

I wish this thread had just stayed on the topic of wait and see how the replacement heat pump they are going to fit works and whether is solves the noise problem.

 

But it is just going over the same old ground that was done to death in the old thread, so that's me out of the thread.

[zoothorn]

25 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I wish this thread had just stayed on the topic of wait and see how the replacement heat pump they are going to fit works and whether is solves the noise problem.

 

But it is just going over the same old ground that was done to death in the old thread, so that's me out of the thread.

I agree & this is exactly what I said. But if others are expanding & saying Im wrong I have to defend myself.

 

If this experienced builder's youtube chsnnel is saying what he is.... there is validity to it. 
 

All Im doing is expanding on this basic theory, that ashp's are crap unless optimal house insulation conditions are inherrantly there.

 

I just don't see how this is cause for argument.

[SteamyTea]

9 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I agree & this is exactly what I said. But if others are expanding & saying Im wrong I have to defend myself.

Are you still refusing to use it at night.

Or in other words, not using as it is designed to be used?

And if you are, have you made it perfectly clear to the installer/ASHP manufacturer that you are using it outside of design parameters?

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Are you still refusing to use it at night.

Or in other words, not using as it is designed to be used?

And if you are, have you made it perfectly clear to the installer/ASHP manufacturer that you are using it outside of design parameters?

I refuse to have radiators in at night. Yes. Absolutely. Noone ive ever known has done. Or hotels ive stayed in do. Anyone's house ive stayed in. Nowehere in my whole life. This country, any other Ive been to or lived in. But the exception is everyone on Build Hub does?? 

Nowhere is it mentioned in the info " the radiators have to be on all night in order for this system to operate normally". Nowhere. Why is this not said? Most likey because noone would choose it, because no normal person wants or needs radiators on overnight.
 

If that is how these systems are designed, they are inherrantly so utterly flawed as to be a joke. And if this was how they were designed Id have been told by the survey person, the installers, vaillant, someone. Noone did. So, they are not designed exclusively to be used like you say or Id have read so, or told so, at least once. Conversely I was told, & the system shows me by way of a moon symbol.... that you can put in normal rad on/ off times, as everyone used to any other CH system knows & uses it like, that being blocks of timed periods fir the rads to come on & off. The most obvious, im sorry it just goes without saying, is OFF overnight = moon symbol ( I mean why is this there then  if not?! ). If it has this function with overnight period obvious symbols, & an engineer putting in my timed blocks for me without saying " it cant, or it shouldnt be run like this".... then it is designed to be run in this way, as well as the bizarre way of keeping it on (if you like to sweat yourself silly overnight each night wasting energy & money ) keep it on 24/7 for the whole winter.. as insane as that idea is.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

So you have no objections to me contacting Valliant and pointing out that your lack of knowledge about modern heating systems is hampering the performance.

[epsilonGreedy]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

And if you are, have you made it perfectly clear to the installer/ASHP manufacturer that you are using it outside of design parameters?

 

 

The overall design parameter that @zoothornhas to comply with is to avoid personal bankruptcy caused by escalating space heating fuel bills. Running an ASHP 24/7 in a thermally leaky old property that should never have been fitted with an ASHP in the first place will be injurious to his personal finances and his quality of sleep.

Edited October 10, 2021 by epsilonGreedy

[epsilonGreedy]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

If this experienced builder's youtube chsnnel is saying what he is.... there is validity to it. 
 

 

The YouTube Skillbuilder channel is progressively turning into a comedy channel as they expand their coverage of topics from traditional nuts & bolts house building subjects to modern technology. As they do this they expose their limits. I still watch a lot of their stuff but I am suspicious of much of the barely concealed commercial advertorial content and their technology deficiencies.

 

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

All Im doing is expanding on this basic theory, that ashp's are crap unless optimal house insulation conditions are inherrantly there.

 

 

Every tribe has its foundation myths and belief systems. The BuildHub tribe believes that ASHPs are wonderful and anyone who experiences otherwise is a bad person.

Edited October 10, 2021 by epsilonGreedy

[ProDave]

24 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

Every tribe has its foundation myths and belief systems. The BuildHub tribe believes that ASHPs are wonderful and anyone who experiences otherwise is a bad person.

Not so,

 

I believe ASHP's are a good choice for well insulated low energy houses and particularly when used with UFH.  But I think they can be a very bad choice for an old leaky draughty house with a high heat requirement and even more so when you try and deliver the heat through radiators and run them at a higher temperature than the heat pump can properly deliver.

 

With the proposed banning of fossil fuel boilers we are going to see a LOT of very poorly performing ASHP's installed as "boiler replacements" and they are going to get a very bad press.  That is not the fault of an ASHP but rather whoever "designed" and installed such bad installations.

[Onoff]

You basically have a traditional, shitty old big house with FA insulation, holes galore, leaky as a colander with multiple heat loss paths.

 

JUST LIKE ME!

 

You either knock down and rebuild or try and bring the insulation spec up. You can't do either without ?

 

None of the above will deter installers selling you a pup. The government handing the grants out don't give a sh!t as they've ticked a box that your house has been "improved", "made green" and is helping save the planet.

 

I would never have an ASAP as my building fabric just isn't right for it. If I was well insulated etc I would.

 

[billt]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

I refuse to have radiators in at night. Yes. Absolutely. Noone ive ever known has done. Or hotels ive stayed in do. Anyone's house ive stayed in. Nowehere in my whole life. This country, any other Ive been to or lived in. But the exception is everyone on Build Hub does??

 

That's odd as I've stayed in a few hotels and B&Bs where the heating is on 24 hours a day in winter - they don't want their customers complaining about the cold.

 

The heating in this house is on 24 hours a day 365 days a year, as was the house we lived in forthe previous 29 years.

 

The thing is they have these strange things called "controls"; heat is only supplied when it is needed. You like cool bedrooms, set the thermostat to 12C and the heating will only come on in that room when it is really cold. Rooms have a lower setback temperature when not likely to be used, when we're away it goes into frost protect mode, but it's still on.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Not so,

 

I believe ASHP's are a good choice for well insulated low energy houses and particularly when used with UFH.  But I think they can be a very bad choice for an old leaky draughty house with a high heat requirement and even more so when you try and deliver the heat through radiators and run them at a higher temperature than the heat pump can properly deliver.

 

With the proposed banning of fossil fuel boilers we are going to see a LOT of very poorly performing ASHP's installed as "boiler replacements" and they are going to get a very bad press.  That is not the fault of an ASHP but rather whoever "designed" and installed such bad installations.

I agree totally. But the company who sells it should have a responsibility to explain to customers their product only works, in certain situations, especially if the majority of UK homes do not fit this criteria. Build Hubbers will be at a massive advantage, knowing beforehand that their property fits this bill. But others are not so lucky & rely on the Co's product literature, primarily: & this critical info, as well as the noise aspect from units, another fundamentally important aspect, plus info to installers about where NOT to site noisy units ie there was no such info.... all important info totally absent, on my mfr's website. This is how I have got them to replace mine, arguing this info as being fundamentally ineptly absent. Its left awol deliberately, or at a pinch, simply lazily.

 

[zoothorn]

28 minutes ago, billt said:

 

That's odd as I've stayed in a few hotels and B&Bs where the heating is on 24 hours a day in winter - they don't want their customers complaining about the cold.

 

The heating in this house is on 24 hours a day 365 days a year, as was the house we lived in forthe previous 29 years.

 

The thing is they have these strange things called "controls"; heat is only supplied when it is needed. You like cool bedrooms, set the thermostat to 12C and the heating will only come on in that room when it is really cold. Rooms have a lower setback temperature when not likely to be used, when we're away it goes into frost protect mode, but it's still on.

Which is exactly what I do. Put the setback temp overnight period lower, 9pm to 7am. With the weird '"controls'". A moon symbol appears.

 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Are you still refusing to use it at night.

Or in other words, not using as it is designed to be used?

And if you are, have you made it perfectly clear to the installer/ASHP manufacturer that you are using it outside of design parameters?

I'm sorry, but that is rubbish. In 25+ years of installing all types of heating systems I have NEVER, not once, heard of any manufacturer ever stating that you must switch your heating on and leave it on 24/7 in the heating season. Nope. Nada. Nil. The summary here that it SHOULD be left on to keep this dwelling up to temp is a totally separate statement altogether.

 

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

So you have no objections to me contacting Valliant and pointing out that your lack of knowledge about modern heating systems is hampering the performance.

How about this;

You could perhaps contact Vaillant, state to them that as a market leader in all heating and now renewables, how the fcuk could they have a system leave their factory headed for a guaranteed suicide mission?! Utterly and completely unacceptable from: a) a manufacturer of this pedigree, and b) if this was an MCS accredited installation then possibly a legal matter also, as clearly all questions in the MCS tick-list were filled in by Enid Blyton. At the minimum at least some improvements should have formed part of this contract, or the installation should 100% not have gone ahead.  

 

To give some completeness to my utter bewilderment here;

I once worked for a business communications installation firm, and the comm's side of it was installing nothing but Panasonic KX series switches. When I started they were getting busier and busier and I was informed that I was to be sent to the head office in Bracknell to become accredited to install the Panasonic range of comm's products. When I asked why the original ( already employed and working alongside me ) accredited installer wasn't suffice I was told that in order to be supplied with the qty of products they were then ordering, there was a requirement from Panasonic to have at least 2 accredited members of staff at the firm. They did not want their products being installed poorly and then to have their reputation this damaged. They said that, or they would refuse to supply X qty of products.

 

I assume here that the MCS installer is at fault primarily ( further assuming Vaillant did not install this themselves and a private / 3rd party installer was used ) as this installation was mis--sold on a good day, and illegal on the worst.

 

@zoothorn 

You have blood on your hands here, as you have stated you knew this would not perform as it should in terms of the current state of the builds fabric and ventilation heat losses eg maintaining a decent ambient internal temp in the same way a high-temp heat source would. That is a separate statement and not intended to be applied to the issues of noisy / faulty / incorrectly installed equipment btw so please do not reply any differently.

 

In terms of what to do next;

Have the 11kW mono block installed. Any less than 11kW then tell them to FO as the maths will not have been done again at that point and around we will go.

That will give you heated water entering your property in a manner that befits putting your frustrations to bed as there will be no internal compressor ( suitcase ) unit at all. The most you would have is a plate heat exchanger to separate glycol mix from your internal primary heating circuit brine and a standard UK circulation pump to circulate the heat from the HeX to your rads / UVC. Problem here will be completely resolved in that instant.

 

New problem;

The system will still struggle to heat your block of swiss cheese. You know that so no need to post it here ever again.

Possible solution;

1) Fit massive radiators ( not BIG radiators but MASSIVE ones ) and do nothing to the fabric of the build, use whenever you like, and say no more about it.

2) Improve the fabric and ventilation heat losses by plugging up holes / improving glazing units / replace or overhaul door and window to get them to seal / install IWI or EWI and so forth to then stop the heat that this system creates from escaping the second it is created.

3) As 2 is a longer term plan, budget dependant etc, then for the interim you should fit low speed tangential fans to the undersides of the existing ( too small for the immediate ) radiators which will blow the heat away from the rads and around the room. Google will show you makes / models / give advice on improvements and installation etc, but as were nice folk here......... here's a Link to get you started  

4) Buy a lot of jumpers, from the money saved from not using heating at all.

5) Fit fossil fuel based CH and move on with your life.

 

Clear concise advice above, and I am not being critical or horrible, but you cannot get a pint out of a half--pint pot mate. Somethings gotta give.

 

Summary;

Allow them to fit the new mono block ASAP. The sack of shart that is there now is damaging your brain. FYI they fitted a split because they are inherently high-temp and better suited to your block of Swiss cheese. Up to 80/85oC flow rates are then possible, but subsequently the defrost troll that lives under the bridge will want to tax this system to boot.

Question the size of the rads they fitted and insist in larger doubles in the worst rooms ( which should have been made massive on the first install but hey--ho ). Enjoy not having the internal compressor, and your new found relative peace and quiet ( allowing for the low hum of internal HeX pump, if so required, which will be as quiet as this install is EVER going to get ), but do not moan about being cold or the system not performing extremely well as you know deep down that it won't until you improve the house that it is forced to reside in.

 

Good luck, and I genuinely mean that. 

 

 

 

 

To all;

So nobody loses any sleep :- DISCLAIMER: to date I have never actually seen the defrost troll. Should this situation change, I will update here accordingly.

"Focker, out!"

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

The YouTube Skillbuilder channel is progressively turning into a comedy channel as they expand their coverage of topics from traditional nuts & bolts house building subjects to modern technology. As they do this they expose their limits. I still watch a lot of their stuff but I am suspicious of much of the barely concealed commercial advertorial content and their technology deficiencies.

 

Agree.

2 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

Every tribe has its foundation myths and belief systems. The BuildHub tribe believes that ASHPs are wonderful and anyone who experiences otherwise is a bad person.

Poop.

[Dave Jones]

8 hours ago, zoothorn said:

What statement Ive made isn't true? (If ever a quote is needed.. ).

 

Im tempting fate by being a lone voice, but in terms of discussion (not argument, esp with you) I do have to stick up for myself.

 

I read all available info on my ashp. Tech details in pdf. I tried to understand the basics on youtube clips. That's about average, for any customer, & what is expected prior to it being fitted. There was no mention of keeping it on 24/7. There was mention of noise only from the outside unit which isn't noisy, but NO mention of inside unit noise. So then: the info isn't fit for purpose ( let alone the hardware, which is proven to be NFFP if Vaillant are ripping it out, whilst it is -- i think & I'm 99% sure now-- proven to be running without any fault).

 

Also, recently I saw an excellent youtube clip, summing up ashp's limitations. An experienced UK builder whose clips Ive trusted implicitly & followed for other jobs. His core point, is these systems for majority of Uk homes is hopeless, because we just don't have adequate insulation unlike scandinavia when a gnats' ammount of heat can suffice to heat rooms. This angle, Ive simply reitterated, because it fits - exactly- why my ashp is fairly useless to heat my house... bar the two insulated rooms (but only works post midday). Insulate Britain... they don't half have a point!
 

I can't change my insulation in my cottage (without huge expense & ruining its chsracter), or change the fact the ground floor rooms sit on clay, without a cm of insulation, next to a water course meaning -in my opinon/ theory- with the ground generally retaining water especially in winter = a particularly cold clay slab my house sits upon (& next door C19 cottage reknown for being ungodly cold forcing out previous owner, because of the cold no less, just ours are next to this big stream). 
 

The floor insultion, or lack of it, & it simply feels (because my legs are 1st to get cold) like a huge ammount of cold is coming UP... this lack of insulstion could not be calculated in any survey. Wall cavities could. So a guess was made, probably re floor insulation. This guess falls sooooo faaaaar short: & IMHO this is the core reason this ashp cannot contend with the house cold. Not, because any calculations haven't been done, or Im running it wrong, or it's not quite powerful enough ( its now running above its capacity by a good chunk, but this upping has made no difference whatsoever so much cold just sits on the ground like a dry ice fog it cannot counter).

 

 

just stop please.

 

ASHP will never work for you even if you left it on 24 x 7. They are crap in new houses so you stand no chance.

 

Accept that you have been had over and move on.

 

Ask for  cash  settlement instead of the pump install or just sell it.

 

If you cant get mains gas get an oil boiler.

[Onoff]

38 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

I can't change my insulation in my cottage (without huge expense & ruining its chsracter)

 

You could retain the character

with external wall insulation (ewi). You'd still be pi$$ing into the wind because of your floor situation so even more expense to dig those up and take the ewi down below the footings. Even then you'll have cold bridges up through the internal walls. Let's not even start on the roof! You'd likely need to change that to get enough overhang to cover the ewi.

 

Do all that and you'll still need to address the air tightness.

 

The low energy houses on here and our traditional builds are a million miles apart. 

 

One of the passive type house builds on here took less energy to heat for 24hrs than it takes to boil a kettle...like 2/3 less. Just for a minute take that in. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments of Insulate Britain btw. I'm quite happy if they want to come and glue themselves to my outside walls. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Onoff

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

 

just stop please.

 

ASHP will never work for you even if you left it on 24 x 7. They are crap in new houses so you stand no chance.

 

Accept that you have been had over and move on.

 

Ask for  cash  settlement instead of the pump install or just sell it.

 

If you cant get mains gas get an oil boiler.

If you’ve had an MCS installation then you are legally bound to not ‘cash out’ on the equipment.

??

[Dave Jones]

7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

If you’ve had an MCS installation then you are legally bound to not ‘cash out’ on the equipment.

??

 

he hasnt had one as it doesnt work.

[zoothorn]

@Nickfromwales Hi Nick, really appreciate your input on here- as I do everyone's too.

 

As to blood on my hands- yes indeed/ understood. I've said all along I knew this ashp wouldn't heat most of my rooms,, apart from two new ones due to their chalk/ cheese insulation aspects. So I'm not complaining about this on the thread here. I wad grumbling though, re. the two new rooms unable to get heat in until midday considering my setback 'stop' at 7 am ( any earlier.. & it wakes me, bc the suitcase is upstairs, small 2 bed cottage board walls etc ). But this was a minor grumble I should've left alone, for the PUMP issue thread. I am to blame. A separate thread maybe.

 

Ok so back to the nub. This wretched pump thing. Now, you say here "..

Have the 11kW mono block installed. Any less than 11kW then tell them to FO as the maths will not have been done again at that point and around we will go. That will give you heated water entering your property in a manner that befits putting your frustrations to bed as there will be no internal compressor ( suitcase ) unit at all. The most you would have is a plate heat exchanger to separate glycol mix from your internal primary heating circuit brine and a standard UK circulation pump to circulate the heat from the HeX to your rads / UVC. Problem here will be completely resolved in that instant. "
 

This is reassuring, & sounds like my plan thanks for this, but still a nagging thing to get reassurance on is left for me, before i plunge in:-

As I read on the very heat exchanger page ( i put a link to ) prospectively going in.. Im still concerned about the wording "frost protection blah blah"... " pump inside blah blah". The very pinpoint problem Ive had, being a pump located exactly where prospectively this replacement ' suitcase box' will go, doing ' frost protection duties'. Its alarmingly similar. 
 

I know ProDave reassured me, that this pump is - is not- the same wretched thing as before, & vaiilant renewables tech person seemed to concur on a call "the problem pump, a separate one, is located - outside- in the monoblock" he told me... a spanner in the works was that having asked what exactly is being pumped, at 3am, expecting the answer to be " glycol, around fan unit pipes" ( because logic tells me anything subject to frost would be located EXTERIOR )........ he told me not so. That the pump at 3am is pumping rad water around he said. W W W What??! i said. And a new pool of total confusion left be polaxed.

 

You see if he was right, rad water being pumped at 3 am ( as utterly nonsensical it seems, reasons Ive said )... & I have a replacement box with a pump, inside the house, in the same location as the other one... it remains steadfastly worrying, & it is known that this pump will -also- do frost protection duties ( confirmed in the heat exchanger info page link ) by pumping X around the radiators too. And if the same pcb circuit is in this ( without either a switch to OFF the frost mode, &/ or without ability to simply change the 3*C figure to say 8*C meaning it wouldn't go into frost mode by manually choosing it not to... a design addition the nerds are actually considering, due to my problem/ my insistance this simple addition could hsve solved all this) then Im still  no more than 50% reassured, by the kind replies on here explaining this wretched overnight pump is definitely not gonna be in the house anymore.

 

To sum up: If this new pump is gonna do frost protection, with a pump ( tech pg tells me it will ), in the same location as my old suitcase box.... how can I not still be concerned?

 

Thanks for reading, zoot

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

14 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

You could retain the character

with external wall insulation (ewi). You'd still be pi$$ing into the wind because of your floor situation so even more expense to dig those up and take the ewi down below the footings. Even then you'll have cold bridges up through the internal walls. Let's not even start on the roof! You'd likely need to change that to get enough overhang to cover the ewi.

 

Do all that and you'll still need to address the air tightness.

 

The low energy houses on here and our traditional builds are a million miles apart. 

 

One of the passive type house builds on here took less energy to heat for 24hrs than it takes to boil a kettle...like 2/3 less. Just for a minute take that in. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments of Insulate Britain btw. I'm quite happy if they want to come and glue themselves to my outside walls. 

Hi Onoff. Yup all understood & agreed.. but the inny outy ext stone character would be ruined, plus big cost, so not an option. 
 

They are a million miles apart indeed, my 2 new rooms cosy pm/ rest of house dreadfully cold ( same huge rads, same heat from them ).

 

Insulate Britain could come here, & insulate my floors? This I can only think thus: remove all xyz from main old room ( having two beds above it) dig out floor a foot, PIR 140mm & cap it back to existing floor level ( or add a very useful 2" to room with main beam skimming my head.. an incentive / idea just occuring now ).. this to be only possible way to get main room alot better. Costly, huge upheaval tho.

 

But my kitchen/ bathroom/ utility room ( one 80's extention as cold as main room ) the idea isnt so feasable, & a seperate huge upheaval.

 

thanks, zh

 

 

[dangti6]

Forgive me for going off topic as I appreciate your current concern is the noise, but can I ask how you have found the efficiency with it heating you hot water throughout the year, and also (appreciate it's early in the season) as the temperature starts to drop are you now noticing any improvement in the heat output that you were disappointed with last winter?

 

I have been reading up on ASHP and the main take away is how it operates at a lower temperature and constant top ups to maintain a temperate is the way it operates opposed to what I am used to from a gas boiler - instant heat. Running it 24/7 is common from the feedback I have been reading up on. Especially even more so I imagine in an inefficient property that possibly loses the heat quicker than it can compensate for it. 

 

Have you ran the heating in the height of summer with the thermostat above the ambient temperature to see if the noise is present when it's not under so much pressure to make up a number of degrees increase? Clutching at straws possibly. 

 

If the replacement system is whisper quiet but will not heat up your house due to how you wish to run it and/or the the lack of insulation etc to maintain a comfortable temperature, what are you going to do?

 

Appreciate the not fit fir purpose statements, but could be a case of getting what you asked for not what you wanted. I'd suggest being clear and concise in your written comms with them. Bullet point it and paraphrase the problems and your expectations. 

[zoothorn]

Another hour on phoneto vaillant to try explaining the pump thing. Im now told my problem pump, effectively splits into -two- pumps, & the " problem one goes outside, a quieter one inside". Omfg. So now I do have a pump, inside, in same place as old one, doing same thing as old one, same times/ same mode = My worst suspicions confirmed. The only reassurance being " inside pump has only one ' gear' & will be quieter". But how can I possibly be sure?

 

Quieter. A subjective opinion? Hopelessly vague. And Im still not understanding why water is in need of being pumped around inside the house at 3 am. But it seems it just does/ will do/ cannot be changed. Same bloody boat after this installed?

 

 I ask what is pumped at 3 am, if its frost protection, then it must surely be re. outside hardware ? (yes)...... so why any need for anything being pumped inside, around rads in this mode ? ( no clarity.. just the new pump " will be quieter "). 
 

Omg. It is causing such stress just to understand what it is even doing at 3am, why, & I still have no answer. Not only this, but contradiction from them: if in frost mode then it can only apply to hardware in an environment subject to frost I ask ? - yes he says - So this refers to outside hardware only yes? - yes - So why are you telling me, that it is not pumping anything around outside ("because pipes dont need it as they contain antifreeze" he said)  but instead only pumping water around my rads then??!... which is exactly what they repeatedly have said it is doing at 3 am. 

 

Total nutcase contradiction of logic. Impossible to understand. So how can I make an informed choice on this new proposal based on this nonsense? 

 

 

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Hi Onoff. Yup all understood & agreed.. but the inny outy ext stone character would be ruined, plus big cost, so not an option. 

 

A good builder could recreate the "inny outy" effect of your original render. I seem to recall your new extension matching pretty well and that you deliberately asked for it not be all clinical and smooth?

 

Plenty of low energy builds on here with thick walls (due to insulation) where the resulting house looks very traditional.

 

Tbh a bad builder might actually get closer to the orginal without trying! ?

 

 

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, dangti6 said:

Forgive me for going off topic as I appreciate your current concern is the noise, but can I ask how you have found the efficiency with it heating you hot water throughout the year, and also (appreciate it's early in the season) as the temperature starts to drop are you now noticing any improvement in the heat output that you were disappointed with last winter?

 

I have been reading up on ASHP and the main take away is how it operates at a lower temperature and constant top ups to maintain a temperate is the way it operates opposed to what I am used to from a gas boiler - instant heat. Running it 24/7 is common from the feedback I have been reading up on. Especially even more so I imagine in an inefficient property that possibly loses the heat quicker than it can compensate for it. 

 

Have you ran the heating in the height of summer with the thermostat above the ambient temperature to see if the noise is present when it's not under so much pressure to make up a number of degrees increase? Clutching at straws possibly. 

 

If the replacement system is whisper quiet but will not heat up your house due to how you wish to run it and/or the the lack of insulation etc to maintain a comfortable temperature, what are you going to do?

 

Appreciate the not fit fir purpose statements, but could be a case of getting what you asked for not what you wanted. I'd suggest being clear and concise in your written comms with them. Bullet point it and paraphrase the problems and your expectations. 

Hi dangti6, Hw is fine perfect for me just runs out last legs end of a good size bath. You can adjust both the temp & ammount easily.

 

No point doing in summer as a test, because its only sub the fixed software tipping point of the outside sensor... of 3*C.

 

I reitterated my opinion, to them, that i think all this might be some software designer doing a friday mistake of leaving off the "-" before the 3. Minus 3*C, push some stuff around just the outside hardware, which afaict contains antifreeze anyway... makes SOME semblence of logic.

But run water thru my rads in 9*C rooms instead, not pushing anything around outside hardware ( this is what im told it is doing at 3 am sub 3*C.... !!.... utterly absurd if true, absurd telling this pap.... if it isnt true) is abominably illogical. 
 

So if I can't understand what it's doing, I can't understand the problem, so I can't be in a position to be clear enough to put bullet point demands to them. I have demanded the lead engineer call/ email me, with tech details of the inside new pump... clutcing at starws for any deciphering of what differences new to old pump might be, just to get a tiny bit more clarity, not as anything definitive. Ridiculous I should hsve to ask this.

 

One feather in my cap... the tech dept have said that there was a design flaw, insomuch as the pump in my existing hydraulic unit, should not have been chosen for it/ its ott/ hence going into this high " gear " when it doesnt need to. 
 

But Im still left to blindly guess that this new pump, sat in same damn place, same coming in at 3 am, will be quieter. But what a tiny bit quieter?? Someone's subjective opinion quieter?? Some tiny incriment on a flaming decibel reading quieter??

 

Anyway thanks for that. Zh