Home automation, errr...

[epsilonGreedy]

  On 06/10/2021 at 21:01, SteamyTea said:

Do you really think anyone will visit you.

 

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As long as Swmbo has a working credit card and internet connection the Hermes and DPD waggons will continue to queue up daily. We like to talk to the paper lady every other week because she knows everything and a 15 minute chat with her is like an omnibus edition of Lincolnshire StreetEnders. It is polite to chat to the villager delivering the newsletter. 

[jack]

  On 06/10/2021 at 19:50, IanR said:

I think HA is at its best when you don't have to interface with it (too much).

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This is something Loxone really pushed and I couldn't agree more. Other than hitting TV mode, I rarely open the Loxone app more than a couple of times a month (usually to manually adjust some light levels up). All light and blinds switches are just simple retractive switches, with no touch screens or anything complex.

[jack]

  On 06/10/2021 at 16:56, Bramco said:

Hmmm need to turn the angle of the blinds a bit - 'shit, where's my phone...'    'can someone call me, I can't find my phone?'    5 minutes later and the cloud has moved on...

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I have an up/down spring-loaded toggle switch for every set of blinds in each room, so they're simple to control manually if I decide to do something different to their programming.

 

That said, I use the switches very rarely, because the blinds have been automated. Remember, it's home automation, not home make-everything-electric-and-fiddly.

[epsilonGreedy]

  On 06/10/2021 at 19:50, IanR said:

I think HA is at its best when you don't have to interface with it (too much).

 

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That YouTube HA chap linked to in this thread makes the same point which is why he claims the upmarket robot vacuums that automatically empty collected dust into the larger charge station bin are much more useful.

Edited October 6, 2021 by epsilonGreedy

[Johnnyire]

  On 06/10/2021 at 21:57, jack said:

 

This is something Loxone really pushed and I couldn't agree more. Other than hitting TV mode, I rarely open the Loxone app more than a couple of times a month (usually to manually adjust some light levels up). All light and blinds switches are just simple retractive switches, with no touch screens or anything complex.

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Can you explain more about loxone and TV, how does it work? What is the IR control for I see on their website? It it just to change the moods etc once the tv is on or what interaction can you have with TVs and Loxone? Thanks

 

[jack]

  On 01/10/2022 at 15:56, Johnnyire said:

Can you explain more about loxone and TV, how does it work? What is the IR control for I see on their website? It it just to change the moods etc once the tv is on or what interaction can you have with TVs and Loxone? Thanks

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It isn't personally of much interest to me so I haven't really looked into it, but I believe you can use their IR system to control IR devices such as TVs. You can also control networked devices such as TVs, home theatre amps, etc, over ethernet or wireless. I doubt you can replicate every single function of the remotes - I suspect the aim is control the main functions (on/off, volume, input select, that sort of thing).

 

If you were into home theatre and had a complex setup, you could, for example, program a button to enter home cinema mode, where Loxone turns on the TV and amp, selects the right inputs and outputs for the HT audio system, closes blinds, and sets the lights to a certain mood.

 

In case you haven't found it yet, the Google Groups Loxone forum is a good place to ask more technical questions if needed: https://groups.google.com/g/loxone-english

[Johnnyire]

  On 01/10/2022 at 18:28, jack said:

 

It isn't personally of much interest to me so I haven't really looked into it, but I believe you can use their IR system to control IR devices such as TVs. You can also control networked devices such as TVs, home theatre amps, etc, over ethernet or wireless. I doubt you can replicate every single function of the remotes - I suspect the aim is control the main functions (on/off, volume, input select, that sort of thing).

 

If you were into home theatre and had a complex setup, you could, for example, program a button to enter home cinema mode, where Loxone turns on the TV and amp, selects the right inputs and outputs for the HT audio system, closes blinds, and sets the lights to a certain mood.

 

In case you haven't found it yet, the Google Groups Loxone forum is a good place to ask more technical questions if needed: https://groups.google.com/g/loxone-english

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Thanks, thats exactly what I am after it for. I am planning a drop down projector and screen in the master bedroom and this is something I want integrated into loxone.

 

I am a member of the group thanks, I will ask in due course but first I need to get a partner to team up with. 

[SteamyTea]

  On 02/10/2022 at 15:27, Johnnyire said:

 

I am a member of the group thanks, I will ask in due course but first I need to get a partner to team up with

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When I suggested that at home, she left, muttering something about being live streamed on the internet.

[Pocster]

  On 02/10/2022 at 15:43, SteamyTea said:

When I suggested that at home, she left, muttering something about being live streamed on the internet.

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I watched your effort - it was rubbish. Like my £15 “ pay per view “ back please .

[SteamyTea]

  On 02/10/2022 at 16:21, pocster said:

£15 “ pay per view “ back please

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I only got 0.000015p per view.

Had to do it for hours, and hours. 

[Pocster]

  On 02/10/2022 at 16:28, SteamyTea said:

I only got 0.000015p per view.

Had to do it for hours, and hours. 

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Yeah I got bored and ended up watching Bluey ( kids program not a ‘ blue ‘ movie ) 

[JohnMo]

  On 06/10/2021 at 14:36, SteamyTea said:

My personal view is that it is all a nonsense, technology looking

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Agreed.

 

Heating, just set up weather compensation in my house after failing last year (long story).  Below 12 degrees outside heating come on its own, super low flow temps, no need to switch on off, so why would I need a home automation system for that.  Although I have thermostats they are not really needed.

 

Electric towel rads, a simple timer thermostat.

 

Lights get switched on/off as I walk in/out the room. 

 

Ventilation system just runs in the background, so need to mess with that. Has humidity sensors which are hit or miss, so just use boost switch.

 

Tried cameras in theory great, in reality complete pain, not liking our WiFi, so now in my do it later pile (ie never).

 

So PIR on outside lights is about as smart as I intend to go. 

 

No home appliances, lights, heating or ventilation connected to internet. TV already comes with a really clever IR remote, why pay to replicate it on another system.

[Roger440]

  On 06/10/2021 at 14:36, SteamyTea said:

 

My personal view is that it is all a nonsense, technology looking for a use.

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Agree 100%.

 

Having just read through this thread, all i can say is "why?". 

 

I genuinely dont understand.

 

Maybe its because nothing winds me up faster than tech that doesnt work. Which seems to be most of it. I hear adverts for broadband that will work with up to 100 devices. Why? Who has 100 "things" connected to the internet? We have 2 phones (when at home) and 2 laptops. And a telly, which i never watch.

 

What do you guys do when, a) it falls over as it inevitably will, b) when its no longer supported by the manufacturer.

 

On the next project (keys saturday) ive commited myself to examining everything we do to see if a simpler, cheaper and cheaper to operate solution can be achieved. Id like to say no electronics at all, but thats probably unachievable. Should be fun. Or sad?

[Pocster]

  On 02/10/2022 at 19:47, Roger440 said:

Why? Who has 100 "things" connected to the internet?

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I do 😁👍

[SteamyTea]

  On 02/10/2022 at 19:47, Roger440 said:

Id like to say no electronics at all, but thats probably unachievable.

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Constant monitoring of environmental conditions is probably the most useful thing that you can use electronics for.

It does amaze me how many people on here talk about spending £1000+ on home automation, but don't have decent energy and temperature monitoring which can be fitted for £30.

The usual argument against is that CT clamps don't show true power.  Well your car fuel gauge does not show an accurate amount, but your happy to trust it enough to get you home.

[Roger440]

  On 02/10/2022 at 20:03, SteamyTea said:

Constant monitoring of environmental conditions is probably the most useful thing that you can use electronics for.

It does amaze me how many people on here talk about spending £1000+ on home automation, but don't have decent energy and temperature monitoring which can be fitted for £30.

The usual argument against is that CT clamps don't show true power.  Well your car fuel gauge does not show an accurate amount, but your happy to trust it enough to get you home.

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What can i fit fo £30. And how will it help me?

[Roger440]

  On 02/10/2022 at 20:02, pocster said:

I do 😁👍

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really? Like what. Just 20 will do.

[SteamyTea]

  On 02/10/2022 at 20:09, Roger440 said:

 

What can i fit fo £30. And how will it help me?

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Will tell you what you are using and when, then you can see what you are also wasting.

 

Over the years I have got my usage down from 11 MWh/year to close to 3 MWh/year, with very little investment.

Even when there was two of us here, the usage was not that high ~4 MWh/year.

[Roger440]

  On 02/10/2022 at 20:20, SteamyTea said:

 

 

Will tell you what you are using and when, then you can see what you are also wasting.

 

Over the years I have got my usage down from 11 MWh/year to close to 3 MWh/year, with very little investment.

Even when there was two of us here, the usage was not that high ~4 MWh/year.

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Thats very clever. And cheap. But i have literally no idea what most of that is about other than the end result. From an electronics and software angle, thats way over my head. Not something that i could tackle sadly.

 

If there was a mechanical or electrical version, id be there.

 

 

[Pocster]

  On 02/10/2022 at 20:10, Roger440 said:

 

really? Like what. Just 20 will do.

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10 ip cameras 

home automation server 

se battery 

pw battery 

doorbird 

usual tv stuff 

6 raspberry pi’s ( doing a variety of things ) 

EV charger 

3 macs 

2 windows pc ( yuck )

4 iPads 

 

there’s an easy 20+ 

Edited October 2, 2022 by pocster

[Temp]

  On 02/10/2022 at 20:09, Roger440 said:

 

What can i fit fo £30. And how will it help me?

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https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09QQCWVNN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

For £32 these will monitor the energy consumption of 4 devices and allow you to turn them on and off using an App. Can also set up timers to turn them on and off automatically. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Roger440]

  On 02/10/2022 at 20:33, pocster said:

10 ip cameras 

home automation server 

se battery 

pw battery 

doorbird 

usual tv stuff 

6 raspberry pi’s ( doing a variety of things ) 

EV charger 

3 macs 

2 windows pc ( yuck )

4 iPads 

 

there’s an easy 20+ 

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Shows how little i know.

 

10 ip cameras I know what a camera is. But IP?

home automation server . Well i guess you would.

se battery  Dont know what this is?

pw battery   Dont know what this is?

doorbird  Dont know what this is?

usual tv stuff 

6 raspberry pi’s ( doing a variety of things )  Dont know what this is? Just googled it and am, mostly, none the wiser.

EV charger 

3 macs 

2 windows pc ( yuck )

4 iPads 

 

[Roger440]

  On 02/10/2022 at 20:40, Temp said:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09QQCWVNN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

For £32 these will monitor the energy consumption of 4 devices and allow you to turn them on and off using an App. Can also set up timers to turn them on and off automatically. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hmmm. Ill say thanks. But really, i think thats a bit too deep for me.

 

As per my original post, why do i want to turn something off from my phone, when i can just turn it off anyway? I dont get it.

 

Knowing how much power im munching IS of interest, but i just want something simple that tells me my power consumption. i get that this does this, but its not simple. And if it uses a phone, its not even under consideration. I'll admit thats because, 6 years in, i still dont really know how to use it beyond the obvious making calls and sending messages.

 

Maybe i should go back to my cave?

[Radian]

  On 02/10/2022 at 19:47, Roger440 said:

What do you guys do when, a) it falls over as it inevitably will, b) when its no longer supported by the manufacturer.

 

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Another reason why some of us 'roll our own'. There's a big risk involved in relying on tech companies to keep services going and you're lucky if they provide the exact functionality you want. You should be able to see the parallel between this and the self-build ethos on BH. 

 

The wonderful thing about today's technology is that it's highly democratised by the affordability of single board computers like the Raspberry Pi - which have stemmed from the ubiquitous mass-produced tech that goes into smart phones. You can trace the origins of much of today's gadgetry to that particular juggernaut of a global market.

 

I feel lucky to have been interested in computers when growing up at a time when they used paper tape and punched cards as program storage. Following their development has been relatively easy for me because of the modest pace of things to begin with. But there's so much educational material and 'how to' instruction now available that, any chosen objective can probably be accomplished with a little bit of confidence and a great deal of googling. Once again, much like self building.

[Roger440]

  On 02/10/2022 at 21:04, Radian said:

 

Another reason why some of us 'roll our own'. There's a big risk involved in relying on tech companies to keep services going and you're lucky if they provide the exact functionality you want. You should be able to see the parallel between this and the self-build ethos on BH. 

 

The wonderful thing about today's technology is that it's highly democratised by the affordability of single board computers like the Raspberry Pi - which have stemmed from the ubiquitous mass-produced tech that goes into smart phones. You can trace the origins of much of today's gadgetry to that particular juggernaut of a global market.

 

I feel lucky to have been interested in computers when growing up at a time when they used paper tape and punched cards as program storage. Following their development has been relatively easy for me because of the modest pace of things to begin with. But there's so much educational material and 'how to' instruction now available that, any chosen objective can probably be accomplished with a little bit of confidence and a great deal of googling. Once again, much like self building.

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Building your own is certainly a solution. And yes, sure, i can see the parallels.

 

Which i guess is why self building is such a small niche. Unless you are simply going for a full turnkey build, you will need to understand an awful lot of quite technical stuff if you are to end up with a resonable result. The majority of the population wont understand.

 

Sadly, not everyone understands computers/ electronics/software. Which is where i fall over. Everything else, is, frankly a non issue. And is certainly, in part, why i seek to eliminate as far as possible. Because if i do have it, it will be a manufactured product, with the downsides you allude to. 

 

The issue with googling and the like, is they inevitably start at a level higher than me. And as you will know, online instructions almost never match the actual real world version as no one ever updates instructions. So i never make it out of the gates.

 

Until tonight i had no idea what a raspberry PI is. Indeed, still dont really, beyond what google tells me. I have no idea what it is actually for? Or why i would want one?