Really disappointed with our worktops...

[MJNewton]

Hi everyone, a penny for your thoughts...

 

We're nearing the end of the what must be the world's longest kitchen extension - I think many of you have built entire houses in the time that we've taken extending our ground floor and creating an open-plan kitchen-lounge-diner. Anyway, the quartz worktops were always going to be a centrepiece of the room and so we put a lot of effort into looking at the options, working out what we wanted, finding a supplier etc and despite having to wait 8 months due to Covid-related supply issues we were happy to wait as we'd really pinned this particular worktop down. The worktop is white with slight grey veining - the sort of look you'd expect to be available everywhere but very few of the ones we found ticked all the boxes... Many had veining that was too rich, some had other colours or fleck present that we didn't want, etc.

 

Yesterday came the day of installation and we were dreading it wondering whether the specified overhangs were correct, had there been a misunderstand over what a bevel vs a chamfered edge is, had we mixed up overhang and reveal when it came to the sink, had the templater made an error, would the fitters take a chunk out of the plaster when manhandling the worktops into place... But, no, that all went perfectly!

 

The problem though, (actually there are two) is:

 

1. We simply don't like the worktops. They're really not white - I'd say yellow, my wife sees/says beige. We mentioned it to the fitters during installation and they talked about the effects of different lighting etc and we convinced ourselves maybe it was just a bit of a 'warm' summer afternoon light biasing the spectrum... but having nearly done a full day cycle now - no - it really is staying its same very-off-white colour.

2. The island worktop has a slight bow to it. I'd spent a long time (weeks in fact!) levelling up the units in what felt like more than three dimesions and so was surprised to find a bit of gap between the units and worktop towards one corner. I thought maybe the sheer weight had squashed the units down a little and maybe I'd just need to tweak up a carcase here and there... but having put a straight edge on the top it turns out there's a 3mm bow measured over only a 600m length! This means it isn't fully supported as much as it could've been, and is very much resting on a corner with little nearby support.

 

I emailed the supplier last night about the bow with some photos, and only casually mentioned the colour not being quite what we expected as we've been trying to convince ourselves it is what it is. Sure, we'd had samples but they're tiny and whilst they weren't perfectly white they weren't quite as yellow/beige as what we've got (it's hard to compare really, to be fair) and the slab we saw in person (quite some distance away so we couldn't become regulars) seemed very white indeed - but then it was outside (under cover) so perhaps everything looks whiter outside and wasn't from our batch anyway. There were going to send out a batch sample a couple of weeks back (just prior to templating) but that didn't actually happen, and whether it would've changed our position I honestly don't know given how small they are.

 

We're really not sure what to do! The bowed island worktop is probably straightforward - if needs be I'm sure I can justify getting them to replace it but, if it's not going to cause any issues from, say, point loading, then we can probably live with that as no one else would notice unless they walk round with a spirit level like I do. It's the colour though... Whilst we can't say for certain we've been missold anything or there's necessarily been any fault of the supplier, we just can't escape the disappointment with the room's centrepiece!

 

Any thoughts? I suppose at the end of the day we could pay another £4k to get some new worktops but that feels drastic on so many levels - cost, waste, embarrassment, not having an obvious alternative option to hand (but we could just search wider)... What would you do?

[MikeSharp01]

Is the island from the same piece of stone as the main runs? If so they may not be able to replace it and get a colour match for the main runs. This may help you argue for a full replacement. When you put the sample piece on the worktop can you see the colour difference? Finally is there anything in the supplier T&Cs that warns of natural materials having colour irregularities?

[ProDave]

Did you actually see the stone before you bought?  When we had ours made, we chose the worktop from their stack of huge pieces in their yard, so we say the very large slab our worktops were going to be cut from.

[dangti6]

Pop a photo up. The veining you mention isn't something I've seen with quartz worktops, where they are made up of quartz 'chippings' and other materials and resin to form a slab.

 

If you still have the sample, put that on top of the worktop and let's see how different it is - will also probably help your case to send that off to show how the sample is not a representation of what you ended up with.

 

Don't envy you. When we were looking for quartz worktops the level of quality differences were outstanding. I have a sample somewhere still of what actually looks like 80% dust and resin with specks of quartz. In the end I found a reasonably local place which let me have a look around the machine shop and see the slabs so I could see an larger area than just 10cm square.

[MJNewton]

55 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Is the island from the same piece of stone as the main runs? If so they may not be able to replace it and get a colour match for the main runs. This may help you argue for a full replacement. When you put the sample piece on the worktop can you see the colour difference? Finally is there anything in the supplier T&Cs that warns of natural materials having colour irregularities?

 

I should've added some pics really but don't feel able to show it off given how we feel! Sod that though, as you can there are three pieces on total (two ~2.5m x 0.6m lengths and a 1.4m x 0.9m island) and so I am assuming they were cut from two slabs:

 

 

I don't know how many slabs are in a batch but assuming there's some left I would expect a replacement to match.

 

It might be hard to tell from the photo but you can probably see they're not white-white (like the walls), but then we always knew they weren't... just didn't expect it to be so pronounced once in the room. To be fair the room is definitely darker at this end given the lack of windows (there's a roof lantern and large sliding doors to 4m to the right of the photo above so there's definitely a light gradient across the room during the day).

 

The samples are similar in colour, but perhaps a shade lighter towards white. Again to be fair it probably is within the expected variation of a mixed-ingredient product, particular with what we have no doubts are more towards the budget end of worktops than the more upmarket branded ones.

 

Bowing aside, we're resigning ourselves to thinking we've just got an unfortunate set of circumstances here - perhaps a slightly 'warmer' batch, not the brightest of rooms, brilliant-white walls, bare walls without pictures or ornamental shelves up yet etc. My Dad reckons once the wooden floor is down that'll 'warm' the room up and perhaps give something for the worktop to relate to (I never had my Dad down as a Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen but there you go).

[MJNewton]

22 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Did you actually see the stone before you bought?  When we had ours made, we chose the worktop from their stack of huge pieces in their yard, so we say the very large slab our worktops were going to be cut from.

 

We did visit but before they had our batch in. Instead we saw a 20mm (so apparently definitely a different batch run from our 30mm) slab they had in but it was outside on a bright but overcast day so in hindsight I imagine it made things look white than an indirectly-lit internal room.

[MikeGrahamT21]

Looking at your photo, i'd say the yellowness is more to do with ambient lighting, the island is much whiter on the photo.

 

Obviously get the island replaced, thats technically not right, so shouldn't be a problem.

 

You can always paint the walls in a warmer shade to cool the worktops down, use cool white lights (which are recommended for kitchens anyway), and let it settle with you a bit, and the wood floor will certainly help. Don't judge it until the room is complete, paint can change alsorts.

[dangti6]

With the walls being pure brilliant white, it's only going to highlight the warmer creamier colour of the worktops if they are not the same shade when right up against them. 

 

What kelvin colour are your lights? Won't help in the day but upping the number slightly may make you feel a bit better of an evening when likely to be using the room in anger (literally).

[MJNewton]

4 minutes ago, dangti6 said:

The veining you mention isn't something I've seen with quartz worktops, where they are made up of quartz 'chippings' and other materials and resin to form a slab.

 

If you still have the sample, put that on top of the worktop and let's see how different it is - will also probably help your case to send that off to show how the sample is not a representation of what you ended up with.

 

Don't envy you. When we were looking for quartz worktops the level of quality differences were outstanding. I have a sample somewhere still of what actually looks like 80% dust and resin with specks of quartz. In the end I found a reasonably local place which let me have a look around the machine shop and see the slabs so I could see an larger area than just 10cm square.

 

Yes, we learnt (and were warned to be fair) early on that 10cm samples don't really do much other than give you an impression of the sort of 'features' that particular style has. That said, I don't think we fully appreciated how even the base colour of a 10cm slab doesn't necessarily give you the full impression of what a large piece will look like. We certainly didn't shove it in the darkest corner of the room... even if we had though I don't know if we'd have caused any alarm bells to ring.

 

There's a video here showing how the veined quartz slabs are made. 

[MJNewton]

@MikeGrahamT21 and @dangti6, yes - the white walls and probably having a big impact. Re artificial lighting we're a big fan of 2700k unfortunately and so wouldn't be happy with cooler lights for other reasons. We can live with the 'warm' look in the evening though to be fair; I think we've trained our eyes to expect that and so the night-time look is less of a concern (particularly noting it's a 'family room' and so we're using the other end for more relaxing activities and didn't want too much lighting variation across the room... You can see the bank of dimmers by the doors which we use to tweak things and having lived in it for the best part of a year now like this (but without worktops!) we're happy with that side of things.

 

If they cost £500 we'd just bite the bullet and re-start our search for something different knowing the potential importance of the whiteness but at £3.8k (£500 of that for templating/installation) that doesn't feel like a sensible option. I think we'll crack on with getting the flooring down, moving the kitcheny stuff onto the worktops and getting some wall pictures/shelves up. That, and a bit of time getting used to it, might be all that's required... I guess we should be reminding ourselves that if our biggest problem right now is the colour of a worktop we're not doing too bad at all.

 

Edit: The island slab is a different issue but will see what the supplier has to say and take things one step at a time. Maybe a good outcome there is, rather than them replace it, they give us some money back and we'll take measures to ensure it is adequately supported from underneath. I don't think normal people would notice - only people like me that walk round with a spirit level or bags of marbles.

Edited August 20, 2021 by MJNewton

[dangti6]

2 minutes ago, MJNewton said:

I think we'll crack on with getting the flooring down, moving the kitcheny stuff onto the worktops and getting some wall pictures/shelves up. That, and a bit of time getting used to it, might be all that's required... I guess we should be reminding ourselves that if our biggest problem right now is the colour of a worktop we're not doing too bad at all.

 

Absolutely. You'll soon find something else to lose sleep over and the anger will change to acceptance and eventually you'll not even think of it when you look at it. 

 

Having said that, see what they say about the bow and what offer they may put forward. I'd be warming myself up for the fact they may fob you off with tolerances etc and not wanting to cough up and replace at their expense. But that's just me being a pessimist. The more money I spend on things that should be perfect, there's always something that takes the shine off it. 

[MJNewton]

Yes, I can relate to all of that @dangti6, and I won't be fobbed off with the tolerances. Their requirements made me work to within 3mm over 2m for the unit levelling so I expect them to match/beat that... ?

[ProDave]

Re supporting the worktop where it bows, I would be looking to insert tapered wedges / shims at intervals to ensure there are no unsupported voids.

[saveasteading]

Thanks for the film: fascinating and you can see why it is expensive.

Would it help to look at the positives? If you had chosen real marble, every piece would be different as it is a lump of mountain.

The features would be flaws too, with the danger of cracking and of bits flaking out, and then catching muck.

Here is an example of where it would come from, and the colour differences and flaws are visible even at this vast scale. Every slice different, even more than yours is.

I think it would cost even more , too.

Good luck with the other things too. 

 

[MJNewton]

Yes, always worth looking for the positives. If we're emulating natural marble here then perhaps we just got the creamy bit of the mountain.. right at the top...  

Edited August 20, 2021 by MJNewton

[Dave Jones]

how polished are they, hard to tell from the photo ?

 

The higher the polish the lighter they look.

[newhome]

I didn’t like my black quartz worktops to begin with. We chose it from a few small samples but when it arrived the shiny specks in the quartz seemed really blingy to me in quantity, especially in bright sunlight. I did get used to it however and I don’t notice it now. 
 

I do see what you mean about the yellow / cream look but I would look to change the colour of the walls as a bright white background will always over emphasise the colour of the worktops. 
 

[MJNewton]

29 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

how polished are they, hard to tell from the photo ?

 

The higher the polish the lighter they look.

 

Yes, they are polished - glass like to the touch. Incidentally, the machining of them is great - perfect bevels, cutouts etc - we've been really impressed by those aspects. 

[MJNewton]

16 minutes ago, newhome said:

I didn’t like my black quartz worktops to begin with. We chose it from a few small samples but when it arrived the shiny specks in the quartz seemed really blingy to me in quantity, especially in bright sunlight. I did get used to it however and I don’t notice it now. 
 

I do see what you mean about the yellow / cream look but I would look to change the colour of the walls as a bright white background will always over emphasise the colour of the worktops. 
 

 

Interesting, thanks - I do expect we'll adjust as our expectations-that-weren't-met begin the dilute. And, yes, we are expecting that adding pictures etc to the walls will draw the eye somewhat and having something out on the worktops should help as even our desired white worktop would likely look a little stark with nothing out. And as you say different coloured walls is always an option, and an easy/cheap one at that. I suppose we're lucky in that the two walls are seperated from the rest of the room by a door on the left and the tall units on the right so that should give us a bit more freedom. 

[AliG]

Doesn't really help you, but we went through lots of similar looking worktops until we got the colour we now have.

 

As well as trying to find it in situ in different kitchen studios, I put the colour into a Google image search to see what I can find.

 

Usually once you have seen a lot of pictures you get an idea what it will look like. A small sample does not give a good idea of the colour.

 

What is the name and make of the colour? I'd be interested to see if looking it up shows it as being a creamy colour. It actually looks like a colour we almost had.

 

I'm sure you'll get used to it, it will look quite different once you have items on the worktop etc. I suspect due to the darkness in the corner the lights will nearly always be on.

 

 

[MJNewton]

The style/colour is 'Calacatta Stream Unique' but is unbranded, or rather it carries the suppliers name (Natural Stone Surfaces) and I do beleive it might be one unique to them. One revealing factor is that the colour-matched silicone they used was Silestone Blanco Norte and whose worktop of the same name does use the term 'creamy white' which I guess is what we've got... I think this really cements the idea that this is our fault in not fully anticipating that the off-white would be exaggerated towards the darker end of the room. This is particularly frustrating given that we thought we felt we'd put so much effort into exploring all the options, visiting showrooms, getting samples etc but I guess there's nothing quite like it being in your own home. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by MJNewton

[AliG]

We originally had Blanco Norte for our worktops but then changed it as when we saw it, it was darker than we expected.

 

I wasn't brave enough to go non Silestone as it was just a lot easier to see Silestone in place and know what it would look like.

 

I do think you have the issue that this would look a lot lighter under a window than in the corner. I wish our kitchen had an extra window in it as it is one of the darker areas in the house, we end up with the lights on almost all the time someone is doing something in the kitchen. You probably will too.

 

I showed the pic to my wife and asked her thoughts. Her suggestion is waiting the walls a darker colour for some contrast. You do have a lot of similar colours there. Interestingly, looking at the pictures, the door frame doesn't look white either, it looks almost the same colour as the worktop. The trouble is a slightly darker wall I don't think would work, you would have to go a totally different colour.

 

The other thing at the moment is there is just too much blank wall. We are quite accustomed to kitchens having wall cabinets and splash backs and this may be making you feel something is off. Do you plan to put more stuff on the walls? Shelves, pictures, splash back behind the hob etc?  I think this would help immensely.

[Mr Punter]

The worktops look fine but the wall are not right. Just paint the walls an off-white shade.  Try a few out.  Even your architrave colour is a better match.

[MJNewton]

Well spotted @AliG and @Mr Punter - the architrave is the original which has yet to be painted. And yes, the walls will end up much busier in due course - my wife is keen to have a lot of framed photos in this room and some small shelves (more decorative effect than practical). Splashback too. 

[MJNewton]

I've been meaning to post a follow-up and I'm always disappointed when threads are left hanging! (What happened to that guy whos new build looked to be falling apart?)

 

Anyway, the worktop suppliers were really good about everything - seemed to be genuinely concerned about trying to make us happy but also remaining sensible about the options which is all fair enough. On the two main points:

 

- Colour - We've reached the conclusion that there's no fault on the part of the supplier here... It's just a combination of our room/lighting and the fact that the worktop isn't quite as white as we expected/hoped and, more to the point, never was - the samples have got pretty much the same tone to them but we'd never put one in the corner to view it (it had always been out on the well-lit island) and even if we had I don't think we would've spotted an issue. We have reminded ourselves that despite looking high and low for other options whilst this one was out of stock we never did find one that we loved and so this one probably is the best we're going to get and there isn't the 'perfect' one out there (that we're aware of at least - don't tell me if you see it!)... And we've got used to it, or are not so concerned about it - indeed I'd go as far as saying we're growing to like it now that we're looking at the kitchen as a whole rather than focusing on the latest thing to have gone 'wrong'!

 

- Island bow - The supplier asked for some photos and then arranged for someone to visit in person (300 mile round trip!). The guy that arrived was actually great - who knew worktop problem rectification could be such fun. A bloke from Buxton with a strong northern accent but with Italian roots he was quite a character. It took a couple of weeks for the visit to happen and by that time I swear the bow had lessened as I'm sure I wouldn't have kicked up a fuss if it was how it was a couple of weeks later. He said he wasn't surprised given that the resin in a quartz worktop does lessen its rigidity, and he also didn't attempt to deny that it should've be installed/left like that in the first place. Rather than berate the installers we just discussed what best to do and the pros and cons of each option, including replacement. We ended up removing the sealant, spinning the worktop so as to reorientate the pattern to what we thought was a slightly better aesthetic (might as well whilst we could) and then found that the worktop actually fitted much better. Perhaps my units weren't quite as flat as I thought, but even so there was a measurable bow albeit not one you could feel or spot by eye anymore particularly now that it had flattened. He tapped in some shims - his thinnest ones - and I was content (pleased in fact) with the outcome. He siliconed up, we had another cup of tea and a chat about life and the matter was concluded.

 

So, all's well that ends well - and another reminder to me not to assume it's the end of the world when things don't quite go to plan.