Self-build in Perth & Kinross - hello

[Kelvin]

@Gus Potter I was disappointed in the lack of care putting the garage up. Consequently, if you go around it and look closely you can see a lot of avoidable damage. They were rushing to get it done hence the lack of care. The company have been quite responsive at options to make good although they’ve gone a bit quiet on me but I’ve not chased them due to dealing with the house. 
 

Yes it’s under a SER (David Narro is the SE company) You’re right it’s the serviceability I am concerned about as I know there is likely more wet insulation in the house and it’s likely they’ll be gaps at the roof/wall junction in the vaulted ceiling like the ones I found in the upstairs roof/wall junction. 
 

However there are two issues with the steels. Downstairs a horizontal steel was supposed to be attached to the vertical steel by 4 bolts. However the flange on the vertical steel was too low so they could only fix it with two bolts. I’m waiting on finding out what they are going to do about it. At the moment it’s been boarded up. There was a steel supposed to go in upstairs to support the glulam above the stairs. This was forgotten about during the erection. I noticed it during construction but they said the wall was load bearing but I now know that’s nonsense. They are putting this steel in now but have had to move the wall as it too was in the wrong place. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Dunc]

10 hours ago, Kelvin said:

... I can only hope that people happen across my posts on here when searching and it puts them off going with them. 

It certainly stopped me in my tracks. I am following with great interest as I was 80% there on going with HH. I'm extremely grateful to you for sharing your experience!!!

Best of luck in getting it sorted.

[Carrerahill]

4 hours ago, Kelvin said:

@Gus Potter I was disappointed in the lack of care putting the garage up. Consequently, if you go around it and look closely you can see a lot of avoidable damage. They were rushing to get it done hence the lack of care. The company have been quite responsive at options to make good although they’ve gone a bit quiet on me but I’ve not chased them due to dealing with the house. 
 

Yes it’s under a SER (David Narro is the SE company) You’re right it’s the serviceability I am concerned about as I know there is likely more wet insulation in the house and it’s likely they’ll be gaps at the roof/wall junction in the vaulted ceiling like the ones I found in the upstairs roof/wall junction. 
 

However there are two issues with the steels. Downstairs a horizontal steel was supposed to be attached to the vertical steel by 4 bolts. However the flange on the vertical steel was too low so they could only fix it with two bolts. I’m waiting on finding out what they are going to do about it. At the moment it’s been boarded up. There was a steel supposed to go in upstairs to support the glulam above the stairs. This was forgotten about during the erection. I noticed it during construction but they said the wall was load bearing but I now know that’s nonsense. They are putting this steel in now but have had to move the wall as it too was in the wrong place. 
 

 

 

 

 

Do you know who at Narro is doing it? PM me if you want as I know a few guys there (I was in a meeting with one of them yesterday), happy to call them for you, also, happy to talk to you first. Even better, if it was one of the guys I know, I introduce them to Gus (friend of mine) and let them have a blether (as he offered above). 

[Kelvin]

1 minute ago, Carrerahill said:

Do you know who at Narro is doing it? PM me if you want as I know a few guys there (I was in a meeting with one of them yesterday), happy to call them for you, also, happy to talk to you first. Even better, if it was one of the guys I know, I introduce them to Gus (friend of mine) and let them have a blether (as he offered above). 

Yes. I’ll PM you the name. Much appreciated. 

[Carrerahill]

4 hours ago, Kelvin said:

However there are two issues with the steels. Downstairs a horizontal steel was supposed to be attached to the vertical steel by 4 bolts. However the flange on the vertical steel was too low so they could only fix it with two bolts. I’m waiting on finding out what they are going to do about it. At the moment it’s been boarded up. There was a steel supposed to go in upstairs to support the glulam above the stairs. This was forgotten about during the erection. I noticed it during construction but they said the wall was load bearing but I now know that’s nonsense. They are putting this steel in now but have had to move the wall as it too was in the wrong place. 

Do Narro know this? I assume the steel was not made to their drawings?

 

Who appointed Narro, HH?

Edited May 19, 2023 by Carrerahill

[Kelvin]

53 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

Do Narro know this? I assume the steel was not made to their drawings?

 

Who appointed Narro, HH?

HH are aware and said they were going to speak with the SE to get their opinion. There are no dimensions on the SE pack for the steel just the spec. Similarly HH didn’t have dimensions on their drawings. The HH sub-contractor came out and measured it all on site once the foundation was finished. My groundworker commented it was an odd way to do it. One of the guys told me that errors with the steels was very common and they often had to have bits welded on etc. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Kelvin

[Kelvin]

The guys have just told me they are doing another job on Monday so won’t be here. No problem. I asked about the job. A HH customer has run out of money so can’t afford the MVHR system. The house achieved an ACH score of 1.  The solution from HH, cut breather slots around the windows. They are just cowboys. This isn’t the subbie incidentally as they think it’s a stupid idea. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Kelvin

[MR10]

6 hours ago, Kelvin said:

HH are aware and said they were going to speak with the SE to get their opinion.

 

Question is do you trust HH to speak to the SE or would they stall and hope as time passes your focus will move elsewhere?

You maybe need to communicate with the SE directly and as per the guidance from @Carrerahill and @Gus Potter.

 

 

 

 

[Kelvin]

Don’t worry I’ll speak with the SE. I don’t trust HH about anything so have gone direct to several of the people they use. They’ve told me off for this in the past as my contract is with them 😂 It’s not stopped me of course. 

[Kelvin]

Should I be worried about this? This is one of the vertical steels wells inside the house. It was empty yesterday when I tightened the nuts up as the builders forgot to do it. It rained a lot yesterday. It’s due to be filled in with non-shrinkable cement. It’s directly in line with this wet patch on the bank that’s 4m on the opposite side of the house  that never dries out so there’s water seeping down here from above so we are going to put in some drainage to divert it away. There was an ancient field drain further along that was diverted into our drainage system and all that side of the bank is dry. The other vertical steel well inside the house is dry. 
 

 

 

[saveasteading]

I took down a steel building once that had no nuts on any bolts. The concrete had held it in place for 20 years...but that was lucky.

Still no excuse for loose bolts though. I supect they haven't grouted under the base plate either.

That results in your building sitting for ever on a few packers, or very approximately on the concrete.

 

If there is no waterproofing around the block then some water getting in is to be expected, and it won't happen again when concreted, and the concrete will be dense if you supervise.

 

The concrete needs to be very well compacted to get rid of air pockets and weaknesses that could expose the steel ( which needs water and air to corrode).

This can be done well enough with a 2 x 2 as a plunger.

I would also make them put in only 100mm first,  and compact it to force some slops under the base,  otherwise air will stay trapped, then the rest can follow. 

You need to watch, as they will think this is pedantic, like tightening nuts, and who knows what other great ideas they might have.....eg chucking in some bricks if low on concrete.

 

As an aside, i would have blackjacked the steel below  ground level. But that is not necessary if your concrete is good.

[Kelvin]

Thanks. I’ve no fear about this part of the build as it’s my excellent groundsworker doing it not the HH contractor. You’re right about there being no grout under the baseplate. Fortunately the well was very flat and I completely cleaned everything out of it before they put the steels in. 
 

It’s been recommended to me to paint the steel below as well as the concrete going in. I’m at the builders merchant now. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Kelvin

[markharro]

I also have some steels bolted down that will end up below ground level...what is the best paint @Kelvin to paint? thanks

[saveasteading]

5 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

I’m at the builders merchant now. 

There is a handy brush for this called a tar brush. A round brush, slanted to a long pole.

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by saveasteading

[saveasteading]

1 minute ago, markharro said:

level...what is the best paint @Kelvin to paint? thanks

Blackjack from any merchant.

[markharro]

Thanks @saveasteading and on the subject of paint would you know what I can use to paint my EPS passive slab base?

[eandg]

On 18/05/2023 at 19:20, Thorfun said:

Makes me so glad I put every piece of insulation in on our build. It took a really long time but at least I know there weren’t any gaps. 
 

Any financial savings were a bonus. 

Thermal and acoustic insulation is a job that's very easy to get away cutting corners on and understandably so given it's monotonous and can be awkward and itchy so it's definitely one for the self-builder to do rather than a contractor. Don't pay for someone to do a job worse than you would have done yourself. 

[saveasteading]

18 hours ago, markharro said:

what I can use to paint my EPS passive slab base?

Anything with a solvent will melt the eps.

You could try something like sandtex. I found it worked on osb where other paints reacted with the binder.

Or overplate with cement board ( screwed???), then blackjack.

 

I have never encountered exposed eps though....Surely someone else on here has.

[markharro]

21 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Or overplate with cement board ( screwed???), then blackjack.

 

I have never encountered exposed eps though....Surely someone else on here has.

Yes our architect mentioned using cement board but its another material (and cost) so I wondered about paint. Yes there must be - its a pretty standard detail with passive house I think

[saveasteading]

45 minutes ago, markharro said:

a pretty standard detail with passive house I think

And a hidden cost of eps as a base.

Apart from everyday durability, the eps will attract rodents and insects, so it needs to be covered.

An eps layer is available attached to plasterboard  so a glue exists which will stick board on.

I suddenly remember i once made a model using layers of ceiling tiles to teach contours. I think I used a rubber glue.

[markharro]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Apart from everyday durability, the eps will attract rodents and insects, so it needs to be covered.

I suspect you are right with this....cement board it will prob need to be - I will use the Instastik stuff we using to stick some EPS to flat roof I think,

[Iceverge]

I think I've heard of someone glueing slates in place to protect the base. If done well it should give a smart finish. 

 

 

[Kelvin]

Hi all

 

Not updated for a while as we have a few issues. I’ll provide a more full update once we’ve worked through them. 
 

I filled these wells in. What’s the best way to close this off? Just cut some insulated blocks and put them in well bedded down? Can I foam at the top where it will meet the wall plate? Then DPM as appropriate? 
 

 

[saveasteading]

Old fashioned or just proper I don't know, but I would close up by using slate and dryish mortar, packed in hard. It provides a full masonry construction to match the rest, and then any finish will be consistent and stick.

[Kelvin]

You don’t think I could cut some of the insulated blocks and get them to fit? 
 

It’s a terrible detail and I’ve fretted over it ever since we did the foundation. That said I went for a walk to clear my head and get away from the site and came across another house going up

with an identical well detail. I might go back and ask the builders how they intend closing it up.   

Edited May 30, 2023 by Kelvin