saveasteading Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 OK. The bumps are from handling stresses I think and yes they can be panel beaten back to shape. I think they should use a wooden block to hit. Other flaws in overtightening screws....torque control should have prevented that. Not impressive , but I guess they are not cladders but general builders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 19, 2023 Author Share Posted April 19, 2023 Steels are in. mm perfect no adjustments necessary. Normally it takes them a while but 30 mins and done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 20, 2023 Author Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) Went to site at 7am this morning, just as the windows arrived, a day early and today is scaffolding day. What is it with folk and their inability to follow clear instructions. Anyway an hour of moving stuff around and we’ve off-loaded them. Lorry driver told me he did a delivery last week to a field. Phoned his contact and the bloke went quiet and said he never achieved planning permission and forgot about the window order. 😂 Edited April 20, 2023 by Kelvin 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 20, 2023 Author Share Posted April 20, 2023 As I predicted might happen a window has been damaged by a scaffold board. Scaffolder saying it wasn’t them. The problem is the kit erection guys removed some boards right beside the window to give them access so the scaffolder will say it was them that did it. Deep joy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 On 18/04/2023 at 15:17, saveasteading said: knows a lot about lightweight steel portals, so his thoughts would be interesting. I'm interest in this as I was involved in developing these lightweight CF portal systems for the largest (think they still) UK manufacturer. Having a look at the framing system there are a number of "interesting features" that make me wonder who signed that off SE wise and what design approach they are taking. The design of these Cf frames is very complex but as as starting point in terms of the haunches. Two of the reasons (there are many more) the haunches are so big is that the bolts are predominantly working on shear into thin steel. The cf members fail long before the bolts, often bolt bearing is a key check. Each bolt group.. the column and rafter are resisting the rotation from the high bending force that occurs at the eaves. Thus you need a well spaced bolt group. @saveasteading as you know in a hot rolled steel portal the top bolts in the eaves connection are usually designed for tension leaving the bottom bolts to carry the vertical shear load.. the cf haunch and apex connection is a completely different animal. The requirement for a long bolt group is one driving factor in the haunch size. The other reason is that (in line with SCI advice) is that as the bolts are working in shear in clearance holes thus joints rotate more before the start to bind thus they shed moment back up the rafters and down the columns. This significantly increases deflections and the distribution of the forces. Deflections are important as not least if the frame moves too much it over stresses the cladding fixings which causes leaks. When you start to shed the moment towards the middle of the members lateral torsional buckling effects are increased and that needs to be braced against. In effect there is no free lunch.. one way or the other you need to deal with the forces, and the different effects that result depending on where the forces occur. There you go.. that's my techy bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 12 hours ago, Kelvin said: never achieved planning permission and forgot about the window order. A little overexcited, ordering the windows first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 20, 2023 Author Share Posted April 20, 2023 21 minutes ago, Gus Potter said: I. Having a look at the framing system there are a number of "interesting features" that make me wonder who signed that off SE wise and what design approach they are taking. Specifically what is interesting about it? It’s a Steadmans building. I have a full structural analysis document 225 pages long for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 Sorry I should have added @Gus Potter See above. Ta. The garage was signed off (loadings etc) by our SE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, Kelvin said: signed off (loadings etc) by our SE. It's just a garage so is allowed to be on the flimsy side. Loadings about 40% less than an occupied building. Nobody doubting it I don't think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) What a first week of my self-build (kit erection phase) Let me tick off the excitement: 1. Kit arrived ✔️ 2. kit fell off tele-handler ✔️ 3. I had a massive row with the company owner ✔️ 4. damage wasn’t too bad and all fixed now ✔️ 5. windows arrive a day early which no one was expecting same day as scaffolding going up. We debate what to do. I raise concerns about windows getting damaged kit company decide to off-load ✔️ 6. windows get damaged ✔️ 7. everyone denies it was them and they would all 100% own up to it if they did it ✔️ 8. i have a very calm discussion with company owner this time but he still threatens to stop all work. We kiss and make up ✔️ 9. he visits site and we agree damage repairable so window will be installed and igu replaced along with damaged cladding 10. Impatient portaloo driver drives down culvert. Portaloo company promise to get a manager to call me no one does. ✔️ However, in roughly four days the kit is up. Internal walling started and it looks beautiful so dead pleased. Edited April 21, 2023 by Kelvin 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Wow, what a list! But for smugness points, presumably 10/10 as none of it was due to faulty planning on your part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 😂 none of it down to me but all of it up to me to sort. It’s like a comet flying through space with an ever growing tail of stuff to fix extending out behind it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 14 hours ago, Kelvin said: It’s like a comet flying through space with an ever growing tail of stuff to fix extending out behind it. Yup, that's self build in a nutshell!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 24, 2023 Author Share Posted April 24, 2023 Busy day today. First floor joists up. Floor down tomorrow. Roof on the flat roof. Getting a real feel for downstairs now. Last of the materials ordered and on-site for the kit erection phase. A few scheduling issues have cropped up which is a pia. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 17 minutes ago, Kelvin said: Getting a real feel for downstairs now. Don't count on it. The perspective changes throughout the process. Bigger than I thought/ oh not so big/ will switch often. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 24, 2023 Author Share Posted April 24, 2023 Sure of course. I meant the layout really. Because the internal panels are up in the main house you can walk through the front door into the hallway and up the short corridor into the bathroom and guest room. The other downstairs bedroom feels a bit wee and the small sitting room feels huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 I'm enjoying the framing, is it 38*88 @600cc double wall? What is your plan for thermal bridging around the soleplate and thresholds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 24, 2023 Author Share Posted April 24, 2023 302mm space stud (89mm x 63mm stud @ 600mm) Top block is a 300mm wide x 225mm high insulated block. Upstand on internal face and tbd on the external face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 On 21/04/2023 at 12:22, Kelvin said: The garage was signed off (loadings etc) by our SE. That's good to hear.. as you are in Scotland it's was probably done under an SER. On 20/04/2023 at 21:54, Kelvin said: Specifically what is interesting about it? It’s a Steadmans building. I have a full structural analysis document 225 pages long for it. It's "interesting" because that looks like a Capital Steel Building. Those top hat sections you have as the purlins and rails. These are I think the third generation profile. I did the design and testing for their predecessors as part of my masters dissertation. Capital funded it and then I went to work for them as an Engineer when I left uni. Capital and Steadmans have a historically long standing relationship. I'm very familiar with the calculation pack you have as I had a hand in developing that as well. Lots of load cases in it, covers all the elements that you need to consider. All in you have a good well designed building assuming that it is a Capital Steel Building and not a remarkably good copy! A lot of Engineers get nervy signing off if they are not familiar with the design process and approach. In particular the SCI have issued guidance on the connection stiffness. Capital are at the forefront in recognising how connection stiffness is very important and their design takes all that into account... hence the big apex and haunch brackets. A small fortune has been spent on R & D of these buildings. I know you have not completed all the work but it looks like you only have a fly brace on one side of the wind post so far. There are two kinds. One is the same as the strap bracing you have on the walls and in the roof.. you need one each side of the wind post as they only act in tension. Sometimes you have a rigid brace that works in tension and compression.. only one is required if rigid. All the best, you can relax now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 25, 2023 Author Share Posted April 25, 2023 (edited) Thanks @Gus Potter It is indeed a Capital Steel Building. As you say Capital and Steadmans work closely together. Jamie, the guy that erected it, is the son of the guy that owns Capital. The analysis document I referenced is headed Capital Steel Buildings. The fly brace being this bit? There are only on one side on every post. Edited April 25, 2023 by Kelvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, Kelvin said: Jamie, the guy that erected it, I know Jamie, not seen him for while, hard worker. Brings back a lot of happy memories for me, my time at Capital. His Dad, Gary Is the CEO. While not plugging Capital, not allowed to do it on BH.. so this is not a plug. When I joined them they also had a huge operation in Austraila which they sold off a few years back. During my time we used to sell about 700 plus buildings a year in the UK. Some of these were big bespoke cold formed buildings, not just small portals. 11 minutes ago, Kelvin said: The fly brace being this bit? There are only on one side on every post. That looks like a rigid brace so only need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 26, 2023 Author Share Posted April 26, 2023 I am officially cream crackered. Just finished for the night putting 50m of Heras fencing. 70m tomorrow. Glulams all on today and roof joists. Roofing tomorrow mostly. Dormer and rest of interal panel work Friday. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 26, 2023 Author Share Posted April 26, 2023 I’ve not told my other half this but I am not convinced by the big ‘porch’. I think it looks too bulky. It’ll soften once it’s finished and the rooflight will break it up I expect. It doesn’t help that you stand above it from the road. I like it inside though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 27, 2023 Author Share Posted April 27, 2023 Roof going on today and dormer built. Another 3 days and they’ll be done. Follow on trades start on Wednesday. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, Kelvin said: Roof going on today and dormer built. Another 3 days and they’ll be done. Follow on trades start on Wednesday. I presume they'll be adding the external breather membrane after the frame has been erected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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