What do I need to know before buying aggregates?

[oldkettle]

I want to order MOT type 1 as will need a lot of it for different purposes starting with a garage subbase and probably garden paths. Found a few companies and the prices seem very close for recycled crushed concrete. Never bought this before so wanted to check whether I am missing something obvious.

 

1) I have a narrow drive where a lorry will fit but it won't be able to turn slightly and tip to the side (unless some can do it?), so I am planning to get a grab lorry delivery - they usually quote 14-16-17ton as a full load at £30-35+VAT (we are in Woking).

2) Do I need to put anything on the grass (or rather moss ? ) first?

3) Any reason to go for a much more expensive limestone? I may still need it (or type 3) when I get SE drawings for the foundation but this is going to be a separate order.

4) Will I get any discount by waiting until I know what I will need next and placing a larger order (very likely to be another 60ton + sand, shingles etc.) 

5) Am I missing a cheaper source -  don't know, buying via a groundworker (although not hiring one yet) or trying to find a quarry and getting somebody to deliver)?

6) Would I benefit from a certificate i.e. is it likely somebody will bring something completely unsuitable (scalpings?) to a clueless client?

Edited July 26, 2021 by oldkettle
typo

[Mr Punter]

Not sure how the prices will work out but you normally have aggregate either delivered in tonne bags via hiab or tipped - 10 or 20 tonne.  I have only used a grab lorry to take away unwanted spoil.

 

The crushed concrete is fine for a subbase but the crushed limestone type 1 MOT binds together much better and could almost be a finished surface after it has been rolled.  For price, ring round a few places.

[oldkettle]

thanks @Mr Punter

 

as an example, here is a standard offering around here. They call it "Tipper with Grab"

https://www.buryhilltopsoilandlogs.co.uk/recycled-aggregates-p-127.html

 

Attaching the picture of our access. Can't see how a tipper could be emptied anywhere but on the drive. 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by oldkettle

[saveasteading]

Here is a start in answer. Random order.

 

Stone is very much cheaper by the lorryload than in bags. The bags are single use and you pay for them, and to get rid of them, plus there is more handling.

Yes you should remove the moss and topsoil, and put down a geomembrane that will prevent the stone and earth mixing.

You do not need MOT I or II for your purposes, and you should find something much cheaper. Tell the supplier you are not in the industry and ask what alternatives can they suggest.

(Never pretend or bluff knowledge. They will not fleece you for that reason: generally the prices are straight, and no discounts)

It varies by location and availability.

They will send you a full list of materials and prices if you ask.

Beware tonnage to m3 conversions. You buy it by the ton, then compact it, and get quite a lot less by volume than you hoped.

You can save money by putting weaker stone down first, and better on top of it.

You can buy from merchants, direct from quarries, or via haulage companies.

 

[Russell griffiths]

Is that driveway coming out after your build, the first 18 wheel truck you take up that will turn that block paving into an obstacle course. 

 

Why not get your finished drive marked out now and get it dug out then fill it with crushed concrete. 

Limestone will compact nicely but will leave white smeary marks down the road when it rains.

 

I buy direct from the quarry for everything, but the smallest load available is 10 tonnes, I pay £26 per tonne plus vat for nearly everything they sell.  

 

Find a local quarry and open open an account under self builder, try and find a large quarry that does ready mix as well. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Russell griffiths

[oldkettle]

2 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Is that driveway coming out after your build, the first 18 wheel truck you take up that will turn that block paving into an obstacle course. 

 

Well, I hope it's going to be just an 8-wheeler for now  Whether or not we build a house is still an open question. The drive was done reasonably well so I will keep my fingers crossed but if something goes wrong this MOT will have to be used on it as well. 

 

4 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I buy direct from the quarry for everything, but the smallest load available is 10 tonnes, I pay £26 per tonne plus vat for nearly everything they sell.  

in this case 30 plus vat sounds quote OK although this only applies to a 17tonne grab delivery from one company.

Other suppliers quoted 35+tax for this. And limestone or granite will be much more.

[oldkettle]

42 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Stone is very much cheaper by the lorryload than in bags. The bags are single use and you pay for them, and to get rid of them, plus there is more handling.

yes, I can see it's at least twice as much.

 

43 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Yes you should remove the moss and topsoil, and put down a geomembrane that will prevent the stone and earth mixing.

Thanks! I know some people use ply but I don't have any lying around and it's not cheap. OK for a single bug that will be used in a week or two, but this can be here for a long time.

 

45 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

You do not need MOT I or II for your purposes, and you should find something much cheaper. Tell the supplier you are not in the industry and ask what alternatives can they suggest.

Why not use it for a garage? I mean.. OK, I know it may well be temporary, but using the link above, only 6mm down is cheaper - and not that much cheaper TBH.

 

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Beware tonnage to m3 conversions. You buy it by the ton, then compact it, and get quite a lot less by volume than you hoped.

yep. A few have calculators and a conversion factor 2.2 didn't make me too happy. 

 

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

They will send you a full list of materials and prices if you ask.

Thank you, let me try this actually. Easier that calling them.

[Conor]

Something like crusher run (25-100mm with fines) might be more suitable as it won't move around as much under load. We used a good 200-300mm thick layer around our site and it has barely sunk or moved. 

 

Definitely shop around the different quarries, go on to Google maps and find your nearest, closer generally means cheaper. My nearest is 3miles away and I was paying £10-£12/tonne on 16t loads.

[oldkettle]

5 minutes ago, Conor said:

Something like crusher run (25-100mm with fines) might be more suitable as it won't move around as much under load. We used a good 200-300mm thick layer around our site and it has barely sunk or moved. 

 

Definitely shop around the different quarries, go on to Google maps and find your nearest, closer generally means cheaper. My nearest is 3miles away and I was paying £10-£12/tonne on 16t loads.

 

 thank you Conor, yes, worth checking the larger ones as well.

 

Prices in NI are quite different  if even Russell pays £25+. But I will try to search again - may be quarries exist here as well. 

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, oldkettle said:

in this case 30 plus vat sounds quote OK although this only applies to a 17tonne grab delivery from one company.

Other suppliers quoted 35+tax for this. And limestone or granite will be much more.

I paid less than £35 + VAT for type 3 virgin granite. not saying you need it as I agree than recycled crushed would probably suffice. but if you do want virgin type 3 then PM me and I'll give you the name of the company I used. but they are based in Kingston-Upon-Thames so shouldn't be hard to find if your Google skills are up to it. ?

 

[Conor]

Don't be afraid to haggle either. We got an extra £2.50 off per tonne just be asking. 

[Thorfun]

was also quoted £280 + VAT for a lorry load of recycled crushed from a company in Herstmonceux, but definitely shop around. there are deals out there although I found that recycled crushed depends on what they have at the time.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorfun

[Ronan 1]

As said buying direct from quarries are usually the cheapest route. Just to annoy the rest of ye I'm paying £6.50 a ton ?

[oldkettle]

Is there any reasonable way to get shingles, sand delivered in the same load as MOT (or whatever other base they will offer) or will bulk bugs be the only option and hence too expensive?

[oldkettle]

@saveasteading

 

before I buy - is it geomembrane (polyethylene) or geotextile that I need? Polythene won't let the water through but won't let fines through either...

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, oldkettle said:

@saveasteading

 

before I buy - is it geomembrane (polyethylene) or geotextile that I need? Polythene won't let the water through but won't let fines through either...

depends..? Under what and for what purpose ..??

[oldkettle]

@PeterW

 

Under the temporary storage of aggregates delivery - in this case likely MOT 1

[PeterW]

20 hours ago, oldkettle said:

only 6mm down is cheaper - and not that much cheaper TBH.

There is a reason ..! You don’t want to be using 6mm down unless you want an impervious surface as it compacts down like armour. 

[oldkettle]

15 minutes ago, PeterW said:

There is a reason ..! You don’t want to be using 6mm down unless you want an impervious surface as it compacts down like armour. 

 

absolutely - not planning to try it! false economy.

[saveasteading]

Non-woven geotextile through preference. This allows water to drain away, prevents mud from coming up into the stone, and prevents stones getting pressed down into the earth.

 

Costs anywhere from  £1 to £2 /m2 normally but there is very heavy duty stuff at high prices.

 

Easily confused with woven, which works but not usually so well, and is more suitable for weed control.

 

You could use this to protect the drop-off point too, then recover for original use, whereas polythene will get  thrown away. 

[Declan52]

19 hours ago, oldkettle said:

Is there any reasonable way to get shingles, sand delivered in the same load as MOT (or whatever other base they will offer) or will bulk bugs be the only option and hence too expensive?

If the lorry can tip and has a hiab. Get the larger amount loose and the other in tonne bags.

[oldkettle]

Just now, Declan52 said:

If the lorry can tip and has a hiab. Get the larger amount loose and the other in tonne bags.

 

Thank you Declan, this is what I thought. Not ideal but still cheaper than a separate order.

[Faz]

6F5 has become more expensive (£14.50/T) for us than 50mm clean from the quarry (£13.50/T) since the clowns at the LA/Government started handing out fines to the suppliers for not having the appropriate waste carriers Licence - crushed concrete is now 'waste' ?

[oldkettle]

3 hours ago, Faz said:

6F5 has become more expensive (£14.50/T) for us than 50mm clean from the quarry (£13.50/T) since the clowns at the LA/Government started handing out fines to the suppliers for not having the appropriate waste carriers Licence - crushed concrete is now 'waste' ?

 

sounds like another  "Just to annoy the rest of ye " ? can't see anything close to these prices around here.

[Faz]

We have Mick George up here trying to drive the competition into oblivion. And it is unfortunately slowly working - short term gains and long term pain I suspect. As for MG - you pay for 20T of stone and get 19 (never had a credit note) that he digs out of his own quarry and ships in his own trucks that occasionally demolish parts of your building - what's not to love....

 

20 lines for orders 0 for any comeback!