Seeking advice re standard of roofing work

[dave1899]

Hello everyone,

 

I would really like some advice regarding the quality of work we have just received from a roofing company contracted by the builder carrying out our single storey extension.  

 

I am not in the industry, but having seen the work I feel it is not to a good standard. We are speaking to the builder about it later this morning and I would just really like to be armed with other people's opinions before confronting the builder. 

 

My main concerns are the strange plastic verge edging along the main edges of the roof and the tiling around the Velux windows.  Should there be a gap that big between the tiles and the Velux?

 

Any help would be really appreciated. Thank you.

 

David Scott

[MikeSharp01]

That does not look good. Your photos capture the problems.

 

1. That is the wrong dry verge for those tiles it is for higher profile tiles than your flat ones - some might also argue that the colour is wrong but your choice. The gap at the bottom between the dry verge and the facia is not acceptable this should have an uplift to match the kickup of the lower tiles.
2. The roof light fitting feels wrong as I thought that the tiles should go over the uplift, which is there to provide a channel and stop wind blown rain getting under the tiles which as things stand is an open channel. You can be sure of the fitting requirements by downloading the manufacturers detailing sheets. You also need to check that the flashing kit used matches the tiles - given the dry verge I wonder if it is correct - again you can check this with the manufacturers recommendations.
3. The leadwork at the top looks very wrinkled and also looks like it has not be patinated evenly.   

 

I would ask the builder to get the dry very refitted and adjust the facia, show you, SHOW YOU THE DRAWINGS FROM THE MANUFACTURER, that the roof lights and flashing have been fitted in compliance with the manufacturers recommendations and get them to smooth out the lead and confirm patination.

 

[dave1899]

Morning Mike,

 

Thanks very much for your quick reply.  I really appreciate your time - is great to have such info ahead of the builder's visit this morning. I'll have a look through the Velux fitting instructions to check compliance.  

 

Thanks again,

 

Dave

[tonyshouse]

Follow roof light fitting instructions for tiles they should touch up to high upstand 

 

possible problem to RHS should have bigger upstand on roof under window sill 

 

lead should be one piece at the top not two, 

 

verge, wrong verge cloak and wrongly fitted 

[LA3222]

The velux looks good to me, Mike may be correct in that the tiles should lap the flashing more - I'd have to check mine. The flashing is correct for that pitch. 

 

The lead looks like it was hammered against pebble dash which explains the wrinkles.

 

Only thing that looks sub par is the dry Verge. A mortar bedded Verge would be better.

Edited July 14, 2021 by LA3222
Best picture I could find.

[dave1899]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the responses.

 

I've tried looking at the Velux installation instructions for the flashing kit (EDW pk08) but can't find a definitive answer as to how close to the edge of the Velux the tiles should be installed.  It looks odd to me to be able to see the gutter to the side. 

 

My main concern is that the roof will leak if rain water is allowed to flow so freely underneath the tiles. 

[LA3222]

I emailed Velux ages ago when I was coming up to do my Velux and they sent me this.

Installation guide for Sandtoft 2020 with EDW.pdf

[Dave Jones]

there are different velux flasing kits for different profile tiles, you need the flat one. The tiles sit on a foam strip around the window to seal against wind blow rain/debris.

 

lead flashing is pretty poor finish with it being out of level, why did they hammer it on the pebbledash ? They could sort that easily.

 

The roof pitch looks like it could have benefitted from the wall plate being 6" lower so the lead didn't hit the bottom of the window frame.

 

I'm a fan of dry verge, maintenance free. You need something like this https://klober.co.uk/product/pitched-roofing/dry-verge-and-valleys/uni-line-continuous-dry-verge-t-strip

 

Black will contrast well and doesnt show the dirt like white fascia.

 

The middle velux has what looks to be a sliver of loose tile at the top, id want that mechanically fixed preferably with a tile specific clip.

 

Can we see the ceiling side or has it been boarded ?

 

 

[Dave Jones]

28 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

The velux looks good to me, Mike may be correct in that the tiles should lap the flashing more - I'd have to check mine. The flashing is correct for that pitch. 

 

The lead looks like it was hammered against pebble dash which explains the wrinkles.

 

Only thing that looks sub par is the dry Verge. A mortar bedded Verge would be better.

 

the lindab gutter looks really good, there automatic leaf dumpers for the downpipes are brilliant.

[dave1899]

8 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

there are different velux flasing kits for different profile tiles, you need the flat one. The tiles sit on a foam strip around the window to seal against wind blow rain/debris.

 

lead flashing is pretty poor finish with it being out of level, why did they hammer it on the pebbledash ? They could sort that easily.

 

The roof pitch looks like it could have benefitted from the wall plate being 6" lower so the lead didn't hit the bottom of the window frame.

 

I'm a fan of dry verge, maintenance free. You need something like this https://klober.co.uk/product/pitched-roofing/dry-verge-and-valleys/uni-line-continuous-dry-verge-t-strip

 

Black will contrast well and doesnt show the dirt like white fascia.

 

The middle velux has what looks to be a sliver of loose tile at the top, id want that mechanically fixed preferably with a tile specific clip.

 

Can we see the ceiling side or has it been boarded ?

 

 

Thanks for the response.  Just taken some photos from the inside if that's what you mean. 

[dave1899]

18 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

I emailed Velux ages ago when I was coming up to do my Velux and they sent me this.

Installation guide for Sandtoft 2020 with EDW.pdf 523.35 kB · 2 downloads

Thanks for this.

[Dave Jones]

thought so, they have pulled the membrane into the inside so that water can run in should it find its way onto it.

 

The velux instructions state this has to be stapled outside.

 

check 30 seconds in on this velux window fitting vid from velux

 

 

 

[dave1899]

Can I just ask, in terms of the thickness of the tiles. Where is this measurement taken from? I'm wondering if the tiles are too thick for the flashing kit. 

[Dave Jones]

not to add more to your hassle, but you have a cold roof. These have to breath to stop them sweating and getting mould buildup especially in very humid areas like kitchens. 

 

Normally this is done by leaving a minimum 50mm gap between the tiles and insulation with ventialtion at the ridge and gutter.

 

Has this extension had any checks from building control ?

[dave1899]

Thanks for your input Dave. 

 

One of the Velux's has been leaking but this was before the flashing kit had been installed.  I assumed that the flashing kit would fix the issue.

 

I'm not sure when building control were last on site or when they're next due to be here.

 

 

[Dave Jones]

Make a list of your concerns and ring them (building control)and ask them to come out, hows relations with the builder as there could be a fair bit of correcting work.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, tonyshouse said:

lead should be one piece at the top not two, 

I thought that the lead could not be longer than in 1.5 meter pieces overlapped by 100mm? That's what I have always done. 

 

Perhaps someone will correct me...

 

It's good to learn.....

[dave1899]

Relations with the builder are ok but he gets very defensive if we point out something that we believe to be incorrect. This is why I wanted to get professional opinions on the state of the roof before I challenged him on it.  

 

As it stands I'm happy that the verge needs fixing but not sure if the tiles need to be installed closer to the edge of the Velux windows. 

[markc]

@dave1899, As it stands I'm happy that the verge needs fixing but not sure if the tiles need to be installed closer to the edge of the Velux windows. 

Im not sure what the Velux instructions say but i have always worked on the upstand being there to stop water tracking diagonally under the tiles, yours would allow water to drop on the tile side of the upstand.

[dave1899]

Hi Mark. Thanks. It's difficult to find written instructions for the installation of the flashing kit. Everything seems to be visual aid instructions from Velux themselves 

[ToughButterCup]

Whatever you do, do not pay (or even offer to pay) more than about 30% of the bill.

Get another company (ies) to list the errors for you, and to quote to put them right. Ask the builder to list the errors. Just that list alone will be of value to you.

When you have that information, go back to the original builder and ask for the works to be brought up to standard. If he refuses, or drags his feet , get the works sorted out by a proper roofer. Pay his bill, deduct that amount from the original builder's bill.  

 

There is no substitute for doing Due Diligence. Its hard niggly naggly work. Following people up and having to nag them most likely. But its either that or suffer low-quality work.

Edited July 14, 2021 by ToughButterCup

[LA3222]

Looking at this pic, I think the tiles should be butted tight to that upstand. They aren't supposed to go over the upstand but they should be tight up to it and then the foam expands to take the profile of the tile and stop rain going through the gap between tile and flashing.

 

The flashing kit used is correct.

[dpmiller]

^ this. They've tried to be neat and tidy by cutting half-tiles, but it needs a bit more to rest on that exposed upstand.

[dave1899]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

 

We've had the builder out today. To be fair he agreed the dry verge didn't look good so I'm going to ask him to remove it and put concrete in instead. 

 

The roofer is convinced the Velux windows are ok and won't leak. He said he couldn't cut a thin enough line of tile to fill the gap to the Velux without the tile snapping. 

 

Building control are coming out tomorrow so I'll be asking them their opinion on it all. 

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[Hobbiniho]

11 hours ago, dave1899 said:

The roofer is convinced the Velux windows are ok and won't leak. He said he couldn't cut a thin enough line of tile to fill the gap to the Velux without the tile snapping. 

 

well of course he thinks its ok, he doesnt have to live with it if it leaks and if he agreed it wasnt correct he needs to fix it at his cost, which wont only be labour costs to remove the whole roof and redo properly but also material cost for all the tiles he has cut wrong/ velux removed and flashings done correctly

 

what needs to happen is the whole roof needs to move over left or right by 1/4 of a tile this would give you 2.75 tiles between windows, on photo 4 on the left hand side velux it looks like he has cut the tile around the corner of the velux with his teeth, im not even going to mention the state of the lead as a few other posters have already said the standard of workmanship is very poor and im sure the excuse that he will give is "iv always done it like that and had no complaints"