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So, I've had a good conversation with ICF Supplies who are Nudura agents. Their support level has filled me with confidence and, if their word is good, means they offer more than just a product, which for a first-time self-builder is more important than pure 'pounds and pence'.

 

I'd like to look at a contrasting ICF system. What's considered comparable with Nudura?

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18 minutes ago, Mulberry View said:

.... What's considered comparable with Nudura?

 

I hesitate to use the word comparable . Durisol is, within the class ICF,  a contrast..... And here's all I've written about the stuff.

I'm not saying that Durisol will suit everyone, it suited us at the time. And it would do so again primarily because we know all its wrinkles. Experience is priceless, almost.

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As per your Planning passed post, if you are looking to do any of the main construction yourself have a look at Isotex from Insulhub 

https://insulhubuk.com/our-products/isotex/
 Very similar to Durisol, but feedback says the blocks are better.


Apparently these types of block have advantages over the Nudura type blocks as there is much less bracing required, they are far more DIY friendly and having all the insulation on the outside means you have a much better thermal mass internal.

 

Feedback on the company is very good, I have had many discussions with Andy Norris the sales manager.

 

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It always baffles me as to why anybody thinks that needing less bracing on your icf system is a good thing. 

 

You are going to spend £250-300-350-450,000 on building this house, why do people think that saving £500 on bracing is a thing to even consider. 

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This year I’ve worked on 3 icf houses, two woodcrete and one eps based, the only upside to the woodcrete is that you can screw a screw  into it, if you think that is relevant then put a tick in that box. 

As for the downside to them, not sure I even want to go there, I paid £22,000 for my icf system and I think the woodcrete would need to be half price to even get me to think about them. 

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Our builder used Amvic. It seemed fine and we only had one partial spill during the pour when one tie failed.

 

Tbh the people putting it together is more important than the system. After looking at several and visiting some builds, they are basically all the same. 

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I used Nudura and whilst I liked the system, I had a couple of issues. I gave my plans to the supplier to quote and they provided me with an estimate, which unfortunately had a number of errors and purchased a load of stuff I didn't need (my mistake for not checking the estimate more carefully). The person doing the estimate is no longer with the supplier and they worked hard to correct the mistake. But the material is very fragile before it is built and a load of incorrectly supplied blocks got damaged (ever so slightly) so were not as new so the supplier wouldn't take them back. Basically I had to sell them for scrap.

 

I had originally gone down a woodcrete block route but struggled to find someone experienced to build it for me, so switched to Nudura as there were more installers familiar with the system. I had to get the engineering calculations part redone which cost approx an extra £2-3k( it was a complicated build with substantial retaining walls).

 

I would recommend closing carefully as switching later is difficult, check your material estimate very carefully and make sure you have somewhere safe to store the product.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

This year I’ve worked on 3 icf houses, two woodcrete and one eps based, the only upside to the woodcrete is that you can screw a screw  into it, if you think that is relevant then put a tick in that box. 

As for the downside to them, not sure I even want to go there, I paid £22,000 for my icf system and I think the woodcrete would need to be half price to even get me to think about them. 


thats interesting Russell, would you care to elaborate.

As I am considering Isotex Woodcrete I would be interested in what you have found the downsides to be

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12 hours ago, Chanmenie said:


thats interesting Russell, would you care to elaborate.

As I am considering Isotex Woodcrete I would be interested in what you have found the downsides to be

Airtightness. 

Cold-bridging

water penetration.  

Uneven walls, due to lack of bracing. 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

 

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4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Airtightness. 

Cold-bridging

water penetration.  

Uneven walls, due to lack of bracing. 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

 

Which Woodcrete block have you used ?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chanmenie said:

Which Woodcrete block have you used ?

I haven’t used any, but I’ve worked on 3 different ones this year

nudura

isotex 

velox. 

All products have there problems, as long as you know what they are you can address it, and work out what it will cost to put it right. 

Airproofing woodcrete for arguments sake, what will it cost to parge coat the inside walls and add in an air tight layer at floor junctions. 

 

It could be a couple of grand you hadnt planned on spending. 

But don’t worry you would save that in not needing to brace it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. “

Edited by Russell griffiths
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What would a mortgage company be happiest with. Twin timber frame or icf? What is classed as standard and non standard?

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49 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

What would a mortgage company be happiest with. Twin timber frame or icf? What is classed as standard and non standard?

Neither most likely. They're both "newly adopted" build techniques are they not? 

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1 hour ago, Oz07 said:

What would a mortgage company be happiest with. ...

Ask a few....?

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You'll find it's not the mortgage company who care but the buildings insurers who can be more picky.

 

Can depends what's on the outside of the timber frame, I've always got insurance for my render over timber frame but some of the mass insurers don't cover it.

 

ICF is just concrete so should be no issues there.

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16 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

I haven’t used any, but I’ve worked on 3 different ones this year

nudura

isotex 

velox. 

All products have there problems, as long as you know what they are you can address it, and work out what it will cost to put it right. 

Airproofing woodcrete for arguments sake, what will it cost to parge coat the inside walls and add in an air tight layer at floor junctions. 

 

It could be a couple of grand you hadnt planned on spending. 

But don’t worry you would save that in not needing to brace it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. “

 

Who said you didn't need to brace it ?  I certainly didn't 

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1 minute ago, Chanmenie said:

 

Who said you didn't need to brace it ?  I certainly didn't 

It seams to be the general argument on here, it’s reeled out every time someone does a cost comparison. 

They add up all the little things and say that woodcrete requires less bracing or even none at all, then they think that £800 for bracing is taking the Micky and think the company should supply it for free. 

Do a search it comes up every time there is an icf versus discussion. 

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1 minute ago, Russell griffiths said:

It seams to be the general argument on here, it’s reeled out every time someone does a cost comparison. 

They add up all the little things and say that woodcrete requires less bracing or even none at all, then they think that £800 for bracing is taking the Micky and think the company should supply it for free. 

Do a search it comes up every time there is an icf versus discussion. 

 

Well only a fool would believe you don't need any bracing

I don't believe Insulhub / Isotex sate that, they certainly haven't to me.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Chanmenie said:

 

Well only a fool would believe you don't need any bracing

I don't believe Insulhub / Isotex sate that, they certainly haven't to me.

 

 

Then there’s a few fools about, read some of the previous posts, it is always pulled out as an argument for cost saving with woodcrete. 

Whatever they tell you to brace you need to add more, every 1200-1500 along a main run, window reveals, door reveals. 

Have seen first hand what a bad pour can do to the finished product you need to be belt and braces. 

 

I have a couple of walls walls that are certainly not as plumb as I would have liked, and I braced it to death and levelled it a dozen times, and still it’s not as good as I thought it would be. 

 

But its its a million times better than the others I have seen this year. 

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3 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Then there’s a few fools about, read some of the previous posts, it is always pulled out as an argument for cost saving with woodcrete. 

 

 

Yes i have read a few other threads

I have also studied Keith65's pictures he used plenty of bracing 

 

I did also watch the Grand Designs episode  where the guy used Durisol and suffered a blow out round a window, so I am aware of the potential pit falls.

it does not seem difficult to brace it  so why would you not, like you said a few fools about who like to cut corners i guess

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4 hours ago, Chanmenie said:

 

Yes i have read a few other threads

I have also studied Keith65's pictures he used plenty of bracing 

 

I did also watch the Grand Designs episode  where the guy used Durisol and suffered a blow out round a window, so I am aware of the potential pit falls.

it does not seem difficult to brace it  so why would you not, like you said a few fools about who like to cut corners i guess

I think they are lead by videos, mostly foreign, and the reps making the product seem easier to use than it actually is. 

Seeing half a dozen women putting a dozen blocks together at a build show gives people a false sense of the depth of work and knowledge required to get a good result. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I think they are lead by videos, mostly foreign, and the reps making the product seem easier to use than it actually is. 

Seeing half a dozen women putting a dozen blocks together at a build show gives people a false sense of the depth of work and knowledge required to get a good result. 

 

Yes indeed  reps just thinking about the dollar.

 

Fortunately I have done a lot of research and am a very competent DIY er so am comfortable that I can do it properly,  I am under no illusions.

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22 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

I haven’t used any, but I’ve worked on 3 different ones this year

nudura

isotex 

velox. 

All products have there problems, as long as you know what they are you can address it, and work out what it will cost to put it right. 

Airproofing woodcrete for arguments sake, what will it cost to parge coat the inside walls and add in an air tight layer at floor junctions. 

 

It could be a couple of grand you hadnt planned on spending. 

But don’t worry you would save that in not needing to brace it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. “

 

Airproofing is an issue/problem with Durisol & Isotex, but not with Velox.

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6 hours ago, Chanmenie said:

....

I did also watch the Grand Designs episode  where the guy used Durisol and suffered a blow out round a window,

...

 

I remember that episode. I watched it again the other day, and laughed out loud. That was a leak, not a blow-out. That was a leeeeedl peeeeedl ....

This, this is whatcha call a blowout. And yer right, it would have had a bit of an effect on the airtightness.

 

20170822_134511.thumb.jpg.d77eb6bed4c1c2d512f0ca8993d515b8.jpg

 

I came as close as I ever have to pressing criminal damage charges on the  facking bain-dead twat who knocked the blocks into line with a lump hammer. Had it all on time lapse camera. But I hadn't reviewed the film for a few days .....

Thats 5 year old news now. Moved on - so much wiser and such a lot nastier now than I was then. 

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2 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

I came as close as I ever have to pressing criminal damage charges on the  facking bain-dead twat who knocked the blocks into line with a lump hammer. Had it all on time lapse camera. But I hadn't reviewed the film for a few days .....

Thats 5 year old news now. Moved on - so much wiser and such a lot nastier now than I was then. 

 

Yeah i read all your posts, that was a shitty experience that was so easily avoided if the builders had any brains.

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