New Build Project

[Dave Schulz]

Hi Everyone,

 

I thought I should sign up to BuildHub as I'm about to embark on a new self-build project with my wife and we're going to need all the help we can get!  We are recently retired and have since spent over a year or two looking for an ideal 'retirement' home. The search became very frustrating  as we just couldn't find a house that was the right size and quality, and in the right place. We stumbled upon a 2 bed bungalow, with a detached garage, in an AONB, not far from where we live in Devon . The bungalow was situated on just less that 1/2 acre of land and had outline planning permission to demolish and to build 2 detached dormer dwellings. We bought the property in March 2020, without really knowing what we were letting our self into.

 

Not averse to taking on a challenge, we decided to self build, so we employed an architect to draw up plans and to guide us through the Reserved Matters planning process. This turned out to be a nightmare, due to the outline planning conditions being challenging, delays due to COVID and the NEIGHBOURS, all of whom collaboratively objected. To cut a long story short, we got our planning permission earlier this month. 

 

I have contacted a number of demolition and groundworks contractors with the understanding that demolition of the bungalow should cost between £6000 - £10000. 'Should be about right', I thought, as the plot is fairly level and there are no issues with access. We had an Asbestos Survey and there is some asbestos as expected . I've received quotes from  a number of contractors ranging from £11600 - £20000 way over our expectations.

 

Because we are not in a hurry to demolish, I have decided to soft strip the bungalow myself, reclaiming what I can to build sheds etc. and taking what I can to the local tip in my trailer. Of course I will be recycling copper and other items and will be contacting the local scrap yard soon. 

 

We are still considering our options moving forward:

• Self demolish - hire an excavator, remove the asbestos and use an Environmental contractor to take it away. We intend to crush the concrete for use later.
• We were planning for timber frame and passive standard, but the price of timber is through the roof (excuse the pun). So we're still looking at Passive, but using  traditional, ICF or even steel frame construction methods. 

 

This is going to be an exciting journey but realise that it's not going to be easy. I will be keeping a close eye on BuildHub pages on a daily basis.

 

[Cpd]

Welcome to the forum, it really sounds like you have your head screwed on the right way and not being in a rush to throw your money at the first quote for the sake of progress is very wise. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and nearly all your issues will have been covered in one way or another on this forum so do spend a few days /  weeks working your way through relevant threads as they are invaluable, also read a few blogs as these give a feel for the whole process that your embarking on. Look forward to following your progress. Cpd. 

[Moonshine]

First off congrats on getting planning and starting off.

That demolition cost seem heavy, I would be tempted to do what you are doing strip what you can, get someone in to do the asbestos out and get a digger in to flatten it.

I am in Devon and may have a few names for timber frame and off details, though we have gone for a conventional build, with 150mm cavity external walls

 

Edit: my money is you are in east devon AONB

Edited June 27, 2021 by Moonshine

[Dave Schulz]

Thanks for the advice, I will certainly scan the forum thoroughly and consider doing as much of the demolition as I can myself.

 

Tamar Valley AONB

 

 

[LSB]

Re crushing and re-using.

We were planning on doing exactly the same, but investigation showed that hiring a crusher was going to cost more than a grab lorry to take away and buying in.

Also, someone (can't remember who) on BH said that the quality of previously used and crushed might not be acceptable.

 

We had a fibre cement roof which can contain about 10% asbestos on the barn we are converting, this was the stuff that is not so dangerous, and the cost to get someone in to clear was circa 12k.

In the end we suited up and carefully took it down ourselves, it all had to be double wrapped, look at my blog for pictures, and then we hired a skip and had it taken away.

With the DPM to wrap and the skip hire it all cost about £800 for 3/4 ton and probably 30 - 40 hours of time.

 

Good luck, and use BH as people on here have a lot of knowledge which I  have already used many times.

We are now at the opposite end of the country, but come from Somerset originally and love the area.

[Moonshine]

28 minutes ago, Dave Schulz said:

Tamar Valley AONB

 

You are just up the road from @BotusBuild

[nod]

1 hour ago, Dave Schulz said:

Hi Everyone,

 

I thought I should sign up to BuildHub as I'm about to embark on a new self-build project with my wife and we're going to need all the help we can get!  We are recently retired and have since spent over a year or two looking for an ideal 'retirement' home. The search became very frustrating  as we just couldn't find a house that was the right size and quality, and in the right place. We stumbled upon a 2 bed bungalow, with a detached garage, in an AONB, not far from where we live in Devon . The bungalow was situated on just less that 1/2 acre of land and had outline planning permission to demolish and to build 2 detached dormer dwellings. We bought the property in March 2020, without really knowing what we were letting our self into.

 

Not averse to taking on a challenge, we decided to self build, so we employed an architect to draw up plans and to guide us through the Reserved Matters planning process. This turned out to be a nightmare, due to the outline planning conditions being challenging, delays due to COVID and the NEIGHBOURS, all of whom collaboratively objected. To cut a long story short, we got our planning permission earlier this month. 

 

I have contacted a number of demolition and groundworks contractors with the understanding that demolition of the bungalow should cost between £6000 - £10000. 'Should be about right', I thought, as the plot is fairly level and there are no issues with access. We had an Asbestos Survey and there is some asbestos as expected . I've received quotes from  a number of contractors ranging from £11600 - £20000 way over our expectations.

 

Because we are not in a hurry to demolish, I have decided to soft strip the bungalow myself, reclaiming what I can to build sheds etc. and taking what I can to the local tip in my trailer. Of course I will be recycling copper and other items and will be contacting the local scrap yard soon. 

 

We are still considering our options moving forward:

• Self demolish - hire an excavator, remove the asbestos and use an Environmental contractor to take it away. We intend to crush the concrete for use later.
• We were planning for timber frame and passive standard, but the price of timber is through the roof (excuse the pun). So we're still looking at Passive, but using  traditional, ICF or even steel frame construction methods. 

 

This is going to be an exciting journey but realise that it's not going to be easy. I will be keeping a close eye on BuildHub pages on a daily basis.

 

Our previous plot had a  recently built garage 8x8 metres with two rooms above 

So the size of a bungalow 

We did exactly what you are intending to do My wife and myself striped the slates and recycled the rafters and floor joists 

Hired a digger and lifted the steels off 

All to be used in the new build later 

a friend isolated the electrics and we burnt all the scrap timber and felt 

The walls came down in no time 

We simply flattened theses out in the plot entrance to give the muck away lorries somewhere to park 

 

Your estimate for a contractor seems quite reasonable 

I would guess the high quotes you are receiving are more a reflection of how busy contractors are Rather than the difficulty of the task 

[Oz07]

How pushed are you for time? I've read that timber has peaked. Could be more normal by the time you're ready to go. 

[Moonshine]

40 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

 I've read that timber has peaked

 

Source? I am sure there will be a while until it trickles down

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, nod said:

burnt all the scrap timber and felt 

Pretty sure that is illegal.

I think there are now very strict rules about waste disposal, so worth finding out about them.

 

https://www.gov.uk/managing-your-waste-an-overview

Edited June 27, 2021 by SteamyTea

[Oz07]

I'd just seen it mentioned on couple of forums but googled this https://fortune.com/2021/06/16/lumber-prices-falling-2021-chart-update-price-of-lumber-going-down-wood-costs/

[Oz07]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

Pretty sure that is illegal.

I think there are now very strict rules about waste disposal, so worth finding out about them.

Wait till you see what else happens on building sites in the real world. 

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Oz07 said:

Wait till you see what else happens on building sites in the real world. 

Don't change the law, whether you like it or not. As Sumption said the other day, the law is not opinion.

[Lorenz]

9 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

I'd just seen it mentioned on couple of forums but googled this https://fortune.com/2021/06/16/lumber-prices-falling-2021-chart-update-price-of-lumber-going-down-wood-costs/

But that is the US and we are now an Island again. Lumber importing is controlled, so may not come down, even firewood in the UK is way expensive compared to much of Europe.

I remember some years ago seeing how they dealt with asbestos sheeting on one site, they soaked it in water and then threw it on the fire they had made with other materials, it would blow up and be scattered by the wind. Seeing this I kept up wind and was glad I did not live there!

[nod]

56 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Pretty sure that is illegal.

I think there are now very strict rules about waste disposal, so worth finding out about them.

 

https://www.gov.uk/managing-your-waste-an-overview

?

[Dave Schulz]

Burning anything other than garden waste is illegal and even that can cause a nuisance. I am going to avoid burning anything and will take trips to local tip where I can dump some things for free. I wish that certain neighbours would follow suit.

 

With regards to costs of timber, I will revert to timber frame suppliers in a couple of months to checks prices again, before making a decision. I have plenty to be getting on with in the meantime. Thanks for the link. If the price of timber is on it's way down in the USA, it should follow here.

 

I am comfortable using PPE, bagging  asbestos myself. Local council tip will take 10 sheets or bags of bonded asbestos, at a cost, so will compare that with a small skip from an environmental services company.

 

House will only come down when the JackDaw chicks have fledged and left the chimney. The blighters move a wire mesh cover and built a nest inside. They should be well gone by end of July followed by the chimney and roof!

 

Thanks for all the responses

 

[SteamyTea]

59 minutes ago, Dave Schulz said:

Burning anything other than garden waste is illegal and even that can cause a nuisance. I am going to avoid burning anything and will take trips to local tip where I can dump some things for free. I wish that certain neighbours would follow suit.

Report the neighbours to the council, on a regular basis, just wear them down.

[Dave Schulz]

We will do!

[Oz07]

5 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Don't change the law, whether you like it or not. As Sumption said the other day, the law is not opinion.

Didn't he also say it's your duty to break it if its unfair and we don't agree with it? Sorry to digress from thread. 

[Oz07]

Anyway a joiner I know is allowed to burn offcuts in a burner he has. Neighbours have complained and council been out and all ok. Morale of storey don't buy a house next door to an industrial unit. 

[saveasteading]

If you have the time and skill then, agreed, dismantling is the way ahead.

It is un-building, and allows you to sort materials.

 

How much of the material can be reused? 

 

Hardcore. you can hire a small crusher quite cheaply.  It struggles to take a whole block but will take half blocks, bricks etc, then all is free. no tip and no buying.

You do have to store the material. If you can't, then agree a reduced price skip for masonry only and save on the crusher. You will be buying back somebody else's crushed masonry, with added muck, later.

 

Tiles too unless they contain asbestos.

 

Timber. nobody will build a commercial house with reused timber, but you can as it is for yourself. Subject to condition of course. If not so great, then you will still end up using it for shutters, propping and odds and ends.

 

windows, doors  etc are probably going to be scrap.

carpets, insulation etc too.

That will have to be skipped, but you can keep costs down by loading with minimum air gaps (I have had labourers empty skips and start again)

You have got it right when the lorry only just manages to lift it.

If you can sort wood/metal etc it can keep costs down

 

Plasterboard is horrible and a contaminant. keep it separate and out of the general skips. If you tell the skip supplier there is no plasterboard then you should get a  much better price.

Then of course you need a special one for the plasterboard.

OR find a skip company that sorts it all out at its depot.

 

Wiring and pipes have a value, which will be yours, at scrapyard.

 

Cost Labour?  your own time. 2 workers for 3 weeks?

access towers or scaffolding

skips

safety stuff and odds and ends.

 

As above, please do not cheat with waste. It is not worth it or morally acceptable. 

ditto re safety...be careful up there.

 

let us know your decisions and how it goes please.

 

 

 

Deduct saving on hardcore, timber and scrap value.    You have just 'made' a lot of money.

[Mr Punter]

On an early project I bought a bungalow with consent to replace with 3 houses.  A friend and I stripped out all the timber.  We got someone to strip the roof tiles free.  They were only concrete plain tiles so I am not sure why they bothered.  We burned all the timber in the garden.  The trick was to get the fire burning very hot.  Not acceptable now, so I guess it just goes to landfill.

[Bozza]

Dave, I soft stripped my old cottage.  Great way to keep fit.  Most things I stripped I had a value - Facebook marketplace is your friend.  From what I sold I  paid for a man & JCB 4x to pull down the stonework.  For Asbestos I got a mask, appropriate safety gear and the correct double bagging stuff, then took it to the council asbestos tip which was free then.

 

Didn’t bother with endless skip runs.  Hired a big van for 24 hrs and did multiple runs to skip site, scrappy etc.  Got nearly £500 for my scrap metal.  

 

I budgeted £10k to demo my cottage.  In the end it was £zero and a lot of fun.  

 

 

[saveasteading]

 

I would buy that timber now. Worth a lot.

 

A few years ago I tried very hard to get a lot of high quality (reusable) dismantled structural timber taken

1. to a charity workshop that re-regulates and sells.    Too far for them, and they had enough already

2. To get used for wood-chipping for energy....they only buy pellets or use new logs.

3. to the county incinerator, to make energy.....they don't accept  materials from businesses.

4. taken anywhere that will process it......Failure

 

So it went away in skips and is either rotting in a field or in landfill.

 

I phoned the quango that pushes reuse and recycling, I think called ReMade, and they had zero suggestions, although that is all they existed for.

I told them this later at an exhibition, and all they could do was hand out more glossy brochures.

 

 

 

 

[Gone West]

I dismantled our old timber clad, timber frame bungalow a few years ago and all the timber was taken after I put it on Freegle. All the rubble was crushed and used on site.