Opinions on induction hobs

[jack]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

Is that a problem, you are not a vegetarian are you

 

No, but I'm also not an autocannibalist. 

[jack]

So the saga continues.

 

I wrote to customer services asking for their reason for rejecting my review, and asking for a copy of their policy for posting online reviews.  I've just received a reply.  The policy question has been ignored.  This is their reasoning for not posting the review:

 

"I am concerned to hear of the issues you have experienced with this item and sincerely apologise we were unable to approve your review. As your review made reference to the safety of the item, which is specific to your item caused by a fault, it did not accurately reflect the quality of the item."

 

Just extraordinary. This is Trump-level reasoning.

 

Incidentally, a company I recently bought something from asked me to put a review on Trust Pilot yesterday.  While there, I checked how John Lewis fared.  Surprisingly, they have an absolutely horrific rating of 1.5 stars.  They are close to last in nearly every rating category:

Categories

John Lewis is ranked 102 out of 103 in the category Activewear

John Lewis is ranked 74 out of 75 in the category Bags and Luggage

John Lewis is ranked 1564 out of 1578 in the category Clothes & Fashion

John Lewis is ranked 1017 out of 1031 in the category Electronics

John Lewis is ranked 231 out of 235 in the category Gifts

John Lewis is ranked 2536 out of 2550 in the category Home & Garden

John Lewis is ranked 204 out of 208 in the category Shoes

John Lewis is ranked 586 out of 591 in the category Sport

John Lewis is ranked 58 out of 58 in the category Toys & Games

 

Looking at some of the reviews, they have serious issues with deliveries and order management.  This actually accords with my own experience.  I'd forgotten that when we ordered a dryer from them a couple of years ago, I sat around through their entire 7 hour delivery window, only for it not the arrive.  I rang them and was told that traffic had delayed them and they've need to re-attempt the delivery another day.  No phone call, no apology, nothing.

 

I'm pretty annoyed about the current situation.  Unfortunately, I'm drowning in work at the moment or I'd make a project out of turning the screws on them.

 

On the plus side, they're clearly interested in solving the actual problem of the defective product.

[Jeremy Harris]

I had an interesting experience a few years ago with a Waitrose (part of John Lewis) product.  My other half had bought a sort of art deco style wall-mounted soap dispenser and wall mounted tooth brush glass from them, chrome brackets and top of the pump and frosted glass dispenser and glass.  A bit over 2 years later, the soap dispenser failed, with the very sharp (and badly internally corroded) moving part cutting the palm of my hand (badly enough to need a couple of stitches). 

 

I took it back to Waitrose, not because I wanted a replacement (it was out of guarantee anyway), but because I was concerned that there was a design failing that could result in more injuries.  The problem was that the nice chrome pump was made of mild steel, believe it or not, so that corroded away until all that was holding the thing together was the chrome plate.  When this failed it exposed extremely sharp broken edges, so was a safety hazard.

 

They were very concerned, and to my surprise called a manager down to talk to me.  Within 5 minutes I realised that his main concern was whether or not I was going to sue them for the injury.  My insistence that they had a product design defect, and should look at taking these items off the shelves until they had reviewed the failure I'd experienced fell on deaf ears.  As soon as the manager realised I wasn't interested in suing them he just wanted me out of the store, with no acknowledgement that they would ever investigate the item.

 

About a week later we received  package from John Lewis, with a replacement soap dispenser etc.  The design was identical to the one that had failed..........................

[SteamyTea]

Should have sued them, they would have taken notice then.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39893111

[Stones]

I do think we as a nation, are reluctant to complain.  In the main I suspect that's because none of us wants the hassle and if it is a relatively low cost item, it's just easier to replace something, shrug our shoulders and bear the cost ourselves.  It takes time and effort to complain, and the results can often be disappointing.  

 

I quite like the idea of posting an online video of the fault, writing a short letter of complaint with link to the video and see how quickly the company responds.  I've not had any such complaint where that would be appropriate.  One day....

[Guest Alphonsox]

As a counter point........

I purchased a couple of built-in Bosch ovens from John Lewis last month, when they arrived one had a dent in the upper cover. I wired it up and checked it was all working then phoned JL to report the fault, primarily to make sure that the fault was recorded for the warranty. They apologized and requested I sent the item back. I declined as the kitchen fitters were due the next day and the damage was in no way cosmetic. They thanked me for the feedback and sent me £50 for my trouble. 

[Jeremy Harris]

20 minutes ago, Stones said:

I do think we as a nation, are reluctant to complain.  In the main I suspect that's because none of us wants the hassle and if it is a relatively low cost item, it's just easier to replace something, shrug our shoulders and bear the cost ourselves.  It takes time and effort to complain, and the results can often be disappointing.  

 

I quite like the idea of posting an online video of the fault, writing a short letter of complaint with link to the video and see how quickly the company responds.  I've not had any such complaint where that would be appropriate.  One day....

 

 

Remember my borehole problems?  I uploaded the video, showing the shortcomings, to YouTube, but kept it private.  I sent the link to the company, saying that either they settled or the video, with their company name on it and a narrative stating the tale of woe, would go public.  The managing director drove around to see me within 48 hours and settled the claim in full...............

[AliG]

A few years ago I had an HP laptop. It was quite an expensive high end one. The power supply gave up the ghost after 18 months.

 

I called to complain and ask for a replacement. They were adamant that it was out of warranty and that was the end of it. I argued that it was not fit for purpose and I had a reasonable expectation that it would last longer. Also that theoretically  EU products should have a two year warranty. They put me through to some complaints people. It seemed that they had deliberately hired some nasty belligerent people  who's job it was to stonewall complaints. I tried the UK HQ and got nowhere. Basically the complaints people said yes I might have a case under the sale of goods act, but unless I actually sued them they weren't going to do anything about it.

 

I have a MacBook now! I decided that the extra cost was probably worth it in terms of the greater lifespan of the product and the better customer service. Indeed my wife's power pack gave up the ghost via the cable fraying after a similar time. We took it to the local Apple Store and they replaced it.

 

I often say that when I retire and have more time my hands I will probably find myself in the small claims court regularly. Many companies seem to think they can get away with taking people for fools and as @Stones said often its just not worth your time to argue about it.

 

Although the US is overly litigious this is one area where we could learn from them. The ability to bring class action lawsuits where companies consistently disappoint their customers likely leads to better service. I don't know if anyone else had this issue, but a few years ago VW had a bad batch of ABS controllers. If you searched the internet the ABS on Golfs, A3s, Octavias etc would regularly fail after 3-4 years. This happened to my dad's car just outside warranty. They paid 60% of the cost, but it was plainly a manufacturing fault that affected thousands of cars. In the US this would definitely have lead to a class action and a free replacement as has been seen for many products there recently such as iPhone batteries and Xboxes where there were systematic issues.

 

 

[Ferdinand]

I'll post more detail on the Crofter thread.

 

I spotted a Neff Induction hob on Amazon here for £349.

 

It comes with a set of Neff pans alleged to be worth £119.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neff-T36FB41X0G-60cm-Induction-Hob/dp/B01N4WP20L/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494615325&sr=8-1&keywords=Neff+induction+hob

 

Ferdinand

 

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Ferdinand

[jack]

47 minutes ago, AliG said:

A few years ago I had an HP laptop. It was quite an expensive high end one. The power supply gave up the ghost after 18 months.

 

I called to complain and ask for a replacement. They were adamant that it was out of warranty and that was the end of it. I argued that it was not fit for purpose and I had a reasonable expectation that it would last longer. Also that theoretically  EU products should have a two year warranty. They put me through to some complaints people. It seemed that they had deliberately hired some nasty belligerent people  who's job it was to stonewall complaints. I tried the UK HQ and got nowhere. Basically the complaints people said yes I might have a case under the sale of goods act, but unless I actually sued them they weren't going to do anything about it.

 

I had a similar problem with some Dell laptops that were bought for a small business I was involved with about 10 years ago.  A known problem with overheating caused the graphics chip to fail, often when the machine was 1-3 years old.  They eventually extended the warranty for domestic customers, but refused to do anything about it for business customers at the time.  The other problem was that the repair didn't actually fix the problem, so they tended to fail another 1-3 years later, usually after the extended warranty had run out.  I was put through to some utter cretins in India who basically laughed at me and told me to take it to court if I thought I had a case.

 

They were right, in a way.  I didn't have the time or inclination to fight it.  I left the business shortly afterwards, although not before we'd bought a large stack of laptops from another vendor.  I've never bought a new Dell machine since, and I never will.  They lost business worth well over £10k over the refusal to repair 3 laptops.  Great business!

 

I've now had a further reply from John Lewis:

 

"Thank you for your email regarding your recent online review.

I can confirm that you can view the Terms and Conditions on writing a review at the following link:

https://www.johnlewis.com/customer-services/information-about-our-terms-and-conditions/terms-and-conditions-for-ratings-and-reviews

When you did the review online the Terms and Conditions are there for you to view and agree to prior to submitting your online review. If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact us." 

 

The terms give them the right to refuse to post any review at their sole discretion, without reason.  I can't see how that's anything other than hugely misleading - people reading the reviews on the website aren't led to read the terms and conditions.  I think it's fair to assume as a reader that any honest review will be posted, but that clearly isn't the case.  A couple of reviews on Trust Pilot also mentioned that their reviews had been rejected.

 

It scares me to say that I trust now Amazon a lot more than I trust John Lewis!  

 

Annoyingly, that's the entire response to my last email.  It seems they've lost interest in actually dealing with the "unsafe" product they were so worried about yesterday!

 

More angry emails to be sent... 

[PeterW]

@jack this makes interesting reading ..!

 

Which? reveals the best and worst high street shops 2017 - Which?
https://apple.news/AHhLGSM8NQ-icJpalO7Qd3Q

[jack]

Link no workee for me 

[Guest Alphonsox]

Hmm - it was there earlier....

 

This is the direct (non- apple news) link

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/05/which-reveals-the-best-and-worst-high-street-shops-2017/

[jack]

Interesting Toolstation is so high.

 

I'd be curious to see what format the survey took.

[Onoff]

4 hours ago, jack said:

Interesting Toolstation is so high.

 

I'd be curious to see what format the survey took.

 

Toolstation branches have a free tea / coffee / soup machine which probably helps! Quite partial to the Lipton lemon tea myself.

 

Those x10 rubble bags they do behind the counter btw are shoite.  Might as well sell them open at both ends.

[Ferdinand]

Expunged. Like Carthage.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Adsibob]

On 15/02/2017 at 08:20, SteamyTea said:

Going to put my 'Chefs' hat on now and be really blunt.

A decent induction hod is so much better than any other method of cooking.  They are more controllable, easy to clean, and at work, the lack of excess heat produced in the kitchen is a real bonus.

 

The new pots and pans do not have to be expensive, my set at home cost about 20 quid and work fine (if you are worried about sticking/burning, learn how to cook).  Lidl are selling a pretty good non-stick frying pan at the moment, makes frying eggs easy.  Think it was about £15.

One advantage with induction pans is that they do not need to be heavy, makes a difference when you have to juggle them all night.

If you are going to spend £10,000, £20,000 or even £30,000 on your kitchen (in your new self build that may cost you £150,000 or £300,00), then £50 on a new set of pans is lost in the noise.

 

As for features, the one I like the most is the temperature setting.  Set something to say 140°C, and that makes frying easy, or at 80°C to let something simmer.  I notice that this is not available on some models.

The next best feature is the power setting, but takes a bit of getting used to (a gas hob is fixed temperature with variable flame size, an old electrical hob is variable temperature with fixed size, an induction is generally fixed power with pulsing to control mean power).

Personally I dislike noisy timers at home (though at work we can't get ones that are noisy enough), so make sure you can vary the volume of these if they are fitted.

I also dislike knobs and buttons, so some method of touch sensitive control is good.  These do seem like a bit of Voodoo and take a while to trust them, but makes cleaning easy.  And if you do have to quickly remove a flaming pan, you can just slide it sideways off the heat, nothing to get in the way.

 

If you fit anything other than an induction hob these days, you are quite mad.

I agree with your sentiments re an induction hob. What would you recommend as a good one?

Re non-stick pans, I’m yet to find one where the non-stick coating that lasts that long. We use our frying pans almost everyday and find that after 6-9 months the “non stick” is pretty sticky. We’ve tried Tefal and even spent £75 on a heavy John Lewis one, and both failed in less than a year. Are the Lidl ones you mentioned in your post (4.5 years ago now) still going strong? Any recommendations for long lasting non-stick pans would be much appreciated.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Adsibob said:

What would you recommend as a good one

I am very impressed with my Russell Hobbs one. RH601H401B.  I did not do too much research, just landed lucky.

was one of the cheapest from AO as well.

1 hour ago, Adsibob said:

Are the Lidl ones you mentioned in your post (4.5 years ago now) still going strong?

Yes it is.  Was from Aldi.  I went into the store to buy one for my boss, they did not have any there.  Asked and they said they come and go, so still made, just not on the shelves at the moment.

 

[AliG]

We have gone through many Tefal, John Lewis and M&S non stick pans and consistently the coating has started to flake off after a while despite not using metal utensils. The non stick effect also deteriorates.

 

Almost exactly two years ago we got Circulon pans from their Ultimum range which has a slightly better non stick coating.

 

https://circulon.uk.com/collections/cookware-pan-sets/products/ultimum-stainless-steel-3-piece-saucepan-set

 

I used a frequently available 10% off voucher to get them for £117 and have since added a small frying pan and sauté pan. I found that individual pans can be bought quite a bit cheaper on eBay.

 

I find them vastly better than previous sets of pans. In particular they have a solid steel base as opposed to a lot of cheaper induction pans which stick a steel circle to the bottom of the pan. They get hotter and heat up faster and do not have issues with the base warping of the cheaper pans.

 

As they were a bit more expensive and also as the non stick works very well I always wash them by hand. Stuff basically comes off with hot water and a wipe. I do feel that even if non stick pans are dishwasher safe, as these are, the dishwasher damages the coating.

 

They are still clearly non stick and have not a single chip in the coating, by the same point Tefal pans usually have the coating all chipped around the top edge. I have found sometimes that if you fry stuff and let it totally dry hard onto the pan it is more difficult to clean. Basically when my wife cooks and not me. It definitely works best if you clean them without letting stuff dry hard onto them.

 

They get very heavily used, since the pandemic started we have cooked almost all meals from scratch and often everyone in the house eats different food so the pans can be used multiple times a day.

 

We also have a Circulon wok which we got first and is still like new. It is from the cheaper Momentum range. The only issue I find is that the small base to pan size on the wok means it takes a while to heat up on the induction hob.

 

Edit: Checking the receipt I got a 4 piece set with the frying pan for £130 less 10%. This seems to be no longer available. Like many things prices have gone up materially.

 

[Adsibob]

2 hours ago, AliG said:

Almost exactly two years ago we got Circulon pans from their Ultimum range which has a slightly better non stick coating.

 

https://circulon.uk.com/collections/cookware-pan-sets/products/ultimum-stainless-steel-3-piece-saucepan-set

 

I used a frequently available 10% off voucher to get them for £117 and have since added a small frying pan and sauté pan. I found that individual pans can be bought quite a bit cheaper on eBay.

 

I find them vastly better than previous sets of pans.

Good tip, thanks. I see from their website that they also do a new range called SteelShield. Looks like it might be even better than Ultimum, although perhaps it's just marketing.

[AliG]

The Steelshieid is designed to allow you to use metal utensils I believe, but is considerably more expensive.

 

I’m quite happy using silicone cooking utensils so don’t see the point.

[Happy Valley]

We have used AEG induction hobs for about 10 years - on our second only because the kids broke the glass in the last one about 5 years ago. Great value and power button boils water quicker than any kettle we have used.

[Onoff]

Bought our Electra Elecheib (that well known, designed in Israel, made in Turkey) induction hob in Sept 2012 (yes I fitted it then ?). Given stirling service ever since. SWMBO unfortunately uses it daily...

[Adsibob]

Just to let anyone who is interested in the Circulon pans that @AliGrecommended on this thread that there is a good black friday offer on at the moment. Most pan bundles are half price and on top of that you can get a 10% off code by signing up with your email adress. So I just paid £67.50 for two "infinite" pans with a lifetime guarantee.