Ground worker wants to do works on a day rate.

[Moonshine]

Met with a ground worker last week, nice guy, knew is stuff and spent a good hour on site talking through how to do the ground works.

I need to look into their previous work, as this is a 3 sided basement dig with retaining walls and want to make sure they have done something similar.

 

One thing that stood out was he wants to do the works on a day rate, and will estimate the time to do the works.

 

That worries me as it transfers the budget risk all onto me. I would of thought that a ground worker would be give me a fix cost with an uplift for risk for them and out of scope work (e.g hitting granite etc)

 

They have the ground investigation, an good estimate of how much muck is coming out. 

 

When I raised it with him he said it would cost me less, which it may well do but not sure I want to shoulder all the risk.

 

I am going to be on site every day (it's a garden plot) and work locally so I can observe what they are doing.

 

The ground works are a big part of this this project and will be largest package of work in terms of cost, so don't want to get burnt from the outset.

 

I guess if I get a fixed cost quote from another ground worker it might give me a steer on things.

 

Answers on a postcard?

[nod]

It’s quite normal for Groundwork’s 

Its the only I’m unknown of your build 

If you pin someone to a fixed price 

They will think of a number and double it 

Get him to break the work down into stages and give you an estimate of the man hours and machine hire for each stage 

[Russell griffiths]

Why should a contractor take ANY risk, it’s your project, all he wants to do is earn a wage and go home. 

You want to build your dream but let somebody else take the risk. 

 

He could do it another work out how many days and put 25% on top for risk, then put 20% on top of all materials. 

This is what I would do. 

 

Price it as as high as I could get away with, he probably is doing you a favour.  

[TonyT]

I suppose that’s the building game - a game of risk.

 

Maybe request weekly updates and base payments in arrears on the totals of these running totals/documents.

 

Agree starting time on site, break times, lunch times, finishing times.

no of staff on site.

visit at different times of the day to see them working.

 

Agree all equipment hire in advance and any associated fuel costs/ skip costs/ muck removal.

 

if it’s day works ask him to buy materials and agree a mark up, as you don’t want the the source of delays on materials and he’s standing about on your coin.

 

good luck 

 

 

[Moonshine]

5 minutes ago, nod said:

It’s quite normal for Groundwork’s 

Its the only I’m unknown of your build

 

Good to know

[Conor]

That's what I did. Was impossible for him to give an estimate. Turned out to be 50% over our time estimate, but that was largely side to the decision to do a lot more muckaway rather than store on site.

[Timedout]

After self building for years we do virtually everything on a day rate but we tend to buy as much of the materials we can. It usually works out cheaper and if, and this happened, the quality or behaviour is not acceptable we can pay them up to date and invite them not to come back. A drunk roofer at ten in the morning is not acceptable.

Exceptions are that we tend to get electricians to work on time and materials. With plumbers we buy all of the meaningful stuff and get them to do provide materials for the things like pipe fittings etc.

If you ask someone to give a fixed price that person has to price for the risk of variation in the work content. Inevitably the price will be higher. 
Working professionally (I don’t do domestic work), the client always wants a fixed price. There are many times, with repair works for example, that it would often be far cheaper to issue a post measured order. Private clients may be persuaded but I worked for a good while in the public sector and there is no way you can get them to engage with the concept.

[Moonshine]

16 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Why should a contractor take ANY risk, it’s your project, all he wants to do is earn a wage and go home. 

You want to build your dream but let somebody else take the risk. 

 

He could do it another work out how many days and put 25% on top for risk, then put 20% on top of all materials. 

This is what I would do. 

 

Price it as as high as I could get away with, he probably is doing you a favour.  

 

To make money (Risk is a financial commodity), i am not expecting him to work without profit, he needs to make bank. 

 

Interested how the fixed fee / day rate arrangements can work and go right / wrong.

 

12 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Agree starting time on site, break times, lunch times, finishing times.

no of staff on site.

visit at different times of the day to see them working.

 

Agree all equipment hire in advance and any associated fuel costs/ skip costs/ muck removal.

 

if it’s day works ask him to buy materials and agree a mark up, as you don’t want the the source of delays on materials and he’s standing about on your coin.

 

Good advice. 

I am planning to source materials, though before works begin we go though to check the shopping list and when things are needed. Also would be wise to agree his mark up on what he needs to source.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Moonshine

[TonyT]

And make sure you see delivery notes of items delivered so you know that all the materials are indeed coming to your site....

 

and they stay on your site.....

[ProDave]

I do 99% or my work on an hourly rate.

 

As long as you trust the guy to do a fair days work without slacking, you should get the best price.  If you insist on a fixed price, he will have to think of everything that could go wrong and cost for it.  then at the end you will be complaining that you have paid him twice what you think it should cost based on hours.

[nod]

1 hour ago, Conor said:

That's what I did. Was impossible for him to give an estimate. Turned out to be 50% over our time estimate, but that was largely side to the decision to do a lot more muckaway rather than store on site.

I was way out with my much away estimate of 500 tons Turned out to be 750 tons 

[Adam2]

On day rate - think about hire costs as you'll not get VAT back if straight hire by you, maybe he can help with this which will save a lot. In fixed price it would be VAT free

[dawsonhousehold]

On 08/03/2021 at 20:20, TonyT said:

I suppose that’s the building game - a game of risk.

 

Maybe request weekly updates and base payments in arrears on the totals of these running totals/documents.

 

Agree starting time on site, break times, lunch times, finishing times.

no of staff on site.

visit at different times of the day to see them working.

 

Agree all equipment hire in advance and any associated fuel costs/ skip costs/ muck removal.

 

if it’s day works ask him to buy materials and agree a mark up, as you don’t want the the source of delays on materials and he’s standing about on your coin.

 

good luck 

 

 

That's good advice.

[Mr Punter]

On 08/03/2021 at 21:27, nod said:

I was way out with my much away estimate of 500 tons Turned out to be 750 tons 

 

I have never known muckaway to be less than estimated.  Does not seem to matter how much more you account for bulking, it always comes to more!

[nod]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

 

I have never known muckaway to be less than estimated.  Does not seem to matter how much more you account for bulking, it always comes to more!

So true 

The person I’m buying the plots from runs a medium size groundwork’s company 

He said he does go in on a fixed rate for one off plots 

But thinks of a price and doubles it

To many unknowns