Build costs and house size!

[Makkers82]

Hello All,

 

I'm back for some more advice - My wife and I are very close to securing our dream plot (hopefully confirmed over the next couple of days!), but we've ended up paying much more for it than anticipated.  This will have the knock on effect of lowering what funds we have available for the actual build (through self-build mortgage and savings).

 

In our initial discussions with our architect, he estimated build costs at £2,500 per m2 for the style of house that we wanted, decent quality finish etc., although said that he had recently completed a project which came out at closer to £2k per m2. 

 

I have a couple of questions:

 

a) If I took on some of the low level work myself, i.e. painting and decorating, tiling, a bit of plumbing etc, how much could I shave off the cost per m2?

b) Could we save costs by contracting a builder to construct a waterproof shell, then organise individual trades ourselves to finish off the build?

c) We want to build a 'large' 4 bedroom house - How big would you estimate this to be, in m2? I was aiming for c. 300m2 but have a feeling this might be waaaaaaay bigger than I think it is.....

 

All thoughts and comments welcome!

 

Thanks

[Dave Jones]

depends where you are but 2k+ is about right for a builder. you may save a small fraction by doing some bits but this will also annoy and get in the way of the trades. 

 

150m2 (not including garage) floor area is a very decent floor area. 

[Ralph]

A lot of this depends on where you are as rates vary so much. Up here in Scotland £2k per m2 would be a decent enough budget.

 

We've done very little work ourselves and I think we should come in at about that including utilities connection and fees. Our spec is decent, triple glazing,  steel cladding and roof and includes a 38 m2 garage with the same. We've also used a central contractor rather than subbies.

 

300m2 to my mind is massive even for a 4 bedroom. I think 200m2 would still be considered pretty big. 

 

For us the groundworks took a bit more than we anticipated, but we had 100m driveway to put in and a high water table. 

 

 

 

 

[Bitpipe]

 

26 minutes ago, Makkers82 said:

b) Could we save costs by contracting a builder to construct a waterproof shell, then organise individual trades ourselves to finish off the build?

 

Yes, essentially you are then the main contractor / project manager so will remove the 20% overhead that you'd normally hand over for a turnkey project. Many of us have gone down that path here with little prior experience. You just need to be organised and prepared to put the work in to source trades and materials in time and at a good price. 

 

A timber frame package can be a good option here as they are factory made so arrive with pre-defined window / door apertures (so you can pre-order those) and are quick to erect. Some will supply the foundation system also and if low energy is a goal then there are firms that will contract to meet specific targets. Ours provided all internal floors (decked) and stud walls so we were able to move quickly to first fix once the exterior was weather tight (windows, doors, roof covering & external cladding).

 

Living on site during the build helps (and will save £s) if that's feasible.

 

26 minutes ago, Makkers82 said:

c) We want to build a 'large' 4 bedroom house - How big would you estimate this to be, in m2? I was aiming for c. 300m2 but have a feeling this might be waaaaaaay bigger than I think it is.....

 

Think about floor area - if you go for a standard 2 storey and room in roof then for 300M2 you're looking at about 120m2 footprint for each floor (roof rooms assumed to have 50-70% of the effective floor coverage) which is 11m2 so quite large.

 

Some build shapes are more cost efficient than others, complexity costs money.

 

[Nick1c]

a) - you will be slower than someone who does it for a living & saving on the cheaper labour. It depends on how much time you have available & how much you value it as to whether it is worth doing. I laid the UFH pipes, did the final sand & sealed the power floated GF & oiled the FF engineered boards. Other that & odd bits of labour I left the rest to professionals. 
b) - I hope this saves money as it was the approach we took! I found it to be stressful, frustrating & occasionally satisfying. As someone with limited knowledge it soaks up an unbelievable amount of time. Do you know reliable, good local tradesmen?

c) - what do you want the space for? There are 2 of us in about 185m2 & it feels very generous (at least it will when all the rooms are finished...). We have a large living area with a pantry, a decent sized tv room, master bedroom with a small dressing room & an en-suite, plant room, 2 further bathrooms & 2 smallish double bedrooms. Were money no object it wouldn’t be much bigger, there is no point in having space if you don’t use it. 
If you have room where you are try mocking up spaces for rooms, in a previous home we had a barn in the garden & did this, it was very helpful. 

[nod]

 

We finished our 5 bed traditional build two years ago at £820 m2

We are almost there securing a second plot 

and don't expect to spend more than a £1000m2 

 

Good luck with your build 

2k is a healthy budget 

 

 

[Dave Jones]

820m2 wow. did you have windows and running water ?

[jack]

1 minute ago, Dave Jones said:

820m2 wow. did you have windows and running water ?

 

Yes, but he's a highly experienced builder and worked his arse off.

[Buzz]

+1 depends where you are , round these parts anyone spending 2k per meter would be losing money hand over fist on the finished value also making lending a nightmare.

 

[nod]

Just now, Dave Jones said:

820m2 wow. did you have windows and running water ?

Yep 

Could have easily cut back on the finishing German kitchen 200 m2 Italian porcelain 400m m2 of paving 

If only we had known we would be selling the house ?

[nod]

2 minutes ago, jack said:

 

Yes, but he's a highly experienced builder and worked his arse off.

Yea 

Labour costs are frightening 

Ive priced TF for the next Quite a bit more expensive than traditional 

BUT so convenient 

[Bitpipe]

@nod I think @Makkers82 will shortly be in touch for a quote

 

[Temp]

2 hours ago, Makkers82 said:

c) We want to build a 'large' 4 bedroom house - How big would you estimate this to be, in m2? I was aiming for c. 300m2 but have a feeling this might be waaaaaaay bigger than I think it is.....

 

Its hard to know what your definition of "large is". I would make a list of the rooms you want. Go measure up some you consider to be the size you want for each and build a spreadsheet to add it all up.

 

Our house is a wisker over 3000 sqf/300sqm. For that we have virtually a 6 bed (4 reasonably large bedrooms, 1 small bedroom, home office big enough to be a 6th bedroom), large living room, dining room, kitchen, family bathroom and two ensuite.  Garage not included in the 3000sqf.

 

Our house is on a slope so split level and has a T shape roof with rooms in the roof and several dormers. This meant quite a bit of steel in the roof and even the first floor. If building again I would go for a more traditional shape to reduce cost (eg rectangular shape, two storey on flat plot).  But keep some of the non standard internal layout features we have. Staircase in the dining room, full height window etc. Money saved would use to add a decent conservatory!

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Temp

[nod]

An example that may be of interest 

is

Friends of ours have more or less completed there third  self build

The firs one in the 80s second late 90s

Hes a now retired QS 

mans while they haven't done any of the work this time They engaged a main contractor 

Here goes 

They have built a 5-7 bed 3400 square feet 

I think that’s including the attached garage but not sure 

It’s a tradition built bolted kitchen and master bed 

The 6-7 beds cover the top floor 

No escape routes so can’t be classed as bedrooms 

3 ensuite baths and one main 

 

The figure they are currently at is 370k No landscaping yet and a 50m2 bonded resin dry still to install and pay for 

10 k in vat due back 

 

As I’ve said he hasn’t done any of the physical work But has done the drawings and planning 

But has found some amazing deals on materials 

 

[nod]

46 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

@nod I think @Makkers82 will shortly be in touch for a quote

 

The joke at the time was if my wife and myself had worked all those hours at Aldi We could of afforded to pay someone to do the build ?

[Bored Shopper]

We've built a 4-bed 2-receptions 3.5 bathrooms to a total of 190 sqm, plus a very generous garage. There are three of us, and the space feels just right, I would be disappointed if it came out smaller. Within M25 that was c. £2600/m2, but we splashed out on sanitaryware and some fitouts. 

[Redoctober]

8 hours ago, Makkers82 said:

c) We want to build a 'large' 4 bedroom house - How big would you estimate this to be, in m2? I was aiming for c. 300m2 but have a feeling this might be waaaaaaay bigger than I think it is....

 

 

As others have said - it depends on your circumstances really and what shape the house intends to take - The more angles etc the dearer the build cost could be.

 

We built a 160sqm TF stone clad house, with Oak framed car port - 3 bedrooms, two bathrooms etc. Plenty of space and all for £1850sq metre, albeit north of the border and it was completed 2 years ago. Take a look at my blog to see what we ended up with and for details of how we achieved it.

[Dave Jones]

On 19/01/2021 at 16:39, jack said:

 

Yes, but he's a highly experienced builder and worked his arse off.

 

 

so not a real cost then. 

[jack]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

so not a real cost then. 

 

Well it was the real cost to him. It isn't a cost someone like me could ever achieve, no matter how careful I was with my spending.

[Baxter1980]

On 19/01/2021 at 16:34, nod said:

 

We finished our 5 bed traditional build two years ago at £820 m2

We are almost there securing a second plot 

and don't expect to spend more than a £1000m2 

 

Good luck with your build 

2k is a healthy budget 

 

 

Do you have any tips on materials to use to keep the costs down? We have found suitable plots in NE Scotland and my husband has many friends in the trades up there with family who have completed their own builds 4/5 years ago before the price rise in materials. We were hoping to buy the land and then use about 250K to build the house, but I'm reading more and more that makes this seem impossible. 

[nod]

32 minutes ago, Baxter1980 said:

Do you have any tips on materials to use to keep the costs down? We have found suitable plots in NE Scotland and my husband has many friends in the trades up there with family who have completed their own builds 4/5 years ago before the price rise in materials. We were hoping to buy the land and then use about 250K to build the house, but I'm reading more and more that makes this seem impossible. 

Costs have gone up That’s for sure 

We have 350 k to build 416 m2 including workshop I’m still confident 

 

Savings 

Previously shopping around found many savings 

This is probably more true now 

As with petrol sellers there lots of companies out there that are hiking there prices 

We had three quotes for 

Block and beam supply 

Lowest £2900 Highest £4300 Same manufacturer 

Steel Massive variations in prices 

The list goes on 

Labour costs are high So anything that you can do yourself will keep costs down

As previous we have spent a lot of time getting utilities quotes 

We have had a water supply installed prior to starting £350 even though they had to dig up a 60 mph road and set traffic lights for three days 

Electricity was coming in at 7500 

Down a poll across a 60 mph road 

Didn’t seam to bad 

We’ve managed to get another quote for 3700 today and if they don’t have to shut the road They will refund 1500

This all takes time and patience 

But is well worth doing 

 

 

[Baxter1980]

15 hours ago, nod said:

Costs have gone up That’s for sure 

We have 350 k to build 416 m2 including workshop I’m still confident 

 

Savings 

Previously shopping around found many savings 

This is probably more true now 

As with petrol sellers there lots of companies out there that are hiking there prices 

We had three quotes for 

Block and beam supply 

Lowest £2900 Highest £4300 Same manufacturer 

Steel Massive variations in prices 

The list goes on 

Labour costs are high So anything that you can do yourself will keep costs down

As previous we have spent a lot of time getting utilities quotes 

We have had a water supply installed prior to starting £350 even though they had to dig up a 60 mph road and set traffic lights for three days 

Electricity was coming in at 7500 

Down a poll across a 60 mph road 

Didn’t seam to bad 

We’ve managed to get another quote for 3700 today and if they don’t have to shut the road They will refund 1500

This all takes time and patience 

But is well worth doing 

 

 

Aw that's really helpful. So it's not necessarily finding alternative materials (I was thinking grand designs lol) but more shopping around for a better price for the same product? We should be able to save a little on labour costs as my husband does know some trades and we will be able to live on the land enabling him to work on the build at times and we will obviously project manage it ourselves. I'm not planning on building a mansion but I don't want a poky little box either. Yours seems massive?!?! Another quick question... we will be buying the land outright and putting some of our savings in to the build itself but we will be requiring a mortgage. Will they just trust us to say we think we can build it for £X amount? I don't want to go too far down this path and get excited for my hopes to be dashed lol 

 

[Mulberry View]

I'm really nervous about build costs. We are now fully committed, living in a caravan onsite.

 

We have a (roughly) 0.6 acre plot, slight slope, tricky access. All services are in the plot and in the vicinity of the build (I did most of that work), a run of over 150m. I've already hand-built 101m of Jacksons Timber Palisade fencing to split the plot and laid 60m of Geocell with Type1x infill as a 'driveway'. The house is 225m2, including a Car Port (193m2 habitable), 3/4 bedroom. We're pretty savvy shoppers.

 

I plan to be VERY hands on and will be on the project full time. I do have my limits though, I'd class myself as an intermediate DIY'er. I'll be -

 

Principal Contractor

Erecting the ICF

Managing the Pours

Drainage

Doing most of the structural timber-work

Fitting the metal roof

Doing as much of the Plumbing/Electrics/UFH and HVAC as I'm allowed.

Kitchen fitting

Bathroom fitting

Tiling

Most of the Landscaping

 

I've taught myself to drive a digger (at a novice'ish level). I won't be bricklaying (where needed), plastering, rendering and probably won't fit the windows.

 

We currently have a bare plot and are ready to go, with about £330k in the bank, having already paid for the work to date. Our organic savings will grow over time.

 

That's my current thought process, but it's difficult to understand budget when you don't know for sure how much you'll be able to do yourself. My worry is that I'll hold back on spec level in case we can't afford to finish, then find we come in under budget!

 

Good luck!

[Bozza]

I assume you’re not working a job in addition to all this?
 

With my project the shopping around for deals, and being disciplined with expenditure, kept me at budget.  Sometimes however I found it better value overall to pay the pros for jobs that would take me AGES.  

[Mulberry View]

2 hours ago, Bozza said:

I assume you’re not working a job in addition to all this?
 

With my project the shopping around for deals, and being disciplined with expenditure, kept me at budget.  Sometimes however I found it better value overall to pay the pros for jobs that would take me AGES.  

 

I was a small business owner, my niche business couldn't survive the pandemic and finally folded late last year. I planned for this build to be my full time occupation for the time being, I just didn't anticipate how long it would take to get out of the starting blocks.