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CADjockey

2 Questions...

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Hi everyone,

It's been a while, planning are an utter bunch of... Anyway 2 questions...

 

1/ Have considered a log burner, external air feed obviously, just because we have one now and a lot of logs to hand anyway.
Is it conterproductive when we will be fitting GSHP & Underfloor Heating. I'd add, we don't have it on a lot at all.

 

2/ Assuming modern insulating materials, but we are not talking passive, will we need heating upstairs at all?
I have read somewhere that it can be virtually redundant. 

 

Your help most appreciated.

 

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1/  A "marmite" question.

 

We have a 4.5kW WBS with ducted air intake and love it.It is an alternative source of free heat for us.  The house is normally heated to 20 degrees by the ASHP and UFH.  The stove is an indulgence for when we want to be hotter at no extra cost. 

 

The main thing is think about where the stove will go as it needs to be able to heat more than 1 room.  In our case the 2 downstairs rooms both have double doors opening to the stairwell, and with those open the stove can heat the whole house so it does not overheat any room, just raises the temperature of the whole house 2-3 degrees each burn.

 

2/  We don't have upstairs heating apart from the bathrooms. Even here in the Highlands, in the middle of a typical cold spell, -10 at night and not above 0 in the day it has not got below 18 degrees in the bedrooms.

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1 hour ago, CADjockey said:

Hi everyone,

It's been a while, planning are an utter bunch of... Anyway 2 questions...

 

1/ Have considered a log burner, external air feed obviously, just because we have one now and a lot of logs to hand anyway.
Is it conterproductive when we will be fitting GSHP & Underfloor Heating. I'd add, we don't have it on a lot at all.

 

Log burners are split on here, many love them and others despise them. Log burners need to be considered carefully or you will just waste a fair bit of money.

 

I live in rural area with access to wood and put the stove in the middle of house. That's our evening heating source for the winter months.

 

Also you mention GSHP in your post, might be worth considering air source, it is more popular here. 

 

1 hour ago, CADjockey said:

2/ Assuming modern insulating materials, but we are not talking passive, will we need heating upstairs at all?
I have read somewhere that it can be virtually redundant. 

 

Your help most appreciated.

 

 

Even if you are building to modern regulations and monitor the standard of work, you will not need heating upstairs. 

 

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1. Not necessary but arguably nice to have, though only you can do the cost/benefit calculation. Any extra heat you put into the house (assuming good insulation and mvhr) saves the heat pump running (again, look at air source) and isn't wasted.

 

2. Yes.  We're pretty well insulated and airtight, but relying on heat from downstairs to heat upstairs wouldn't work for us.  I guess it depends on how warm you like your bedroom and bathroom, but even if downstairs ufh manages to distribute heat evenly upstairs,  our bedrooms have a mvhr feed, which at best will be at least 20% cooler.  No heating upstairs would have been a mistake.

 

Caveat:  if had to wear more than shorts and t-shirt at any point in the day/year, I'd have been disappointed!

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I am having a WBS, as others have said its marmite here. 

 

I have a rural plot and 2 acres of woodlands, ots free to me and hence mo point in me not doing it. Second point was for the absolutely extreme case where for some reason I lost power, that's my only source of heating gone as we have ASHP. So fire made sense..  even though its never likely we will lose power. 

 

Third is because I ike them.  

 

 

I have a SIPS build (just broke ground) and we have no heating upstairs apart from bathroom towels rails and electric ufh planned in them. 

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i have a charnwood country 4 in the old dining room, which is great and a charnwood Inset stove to fit an existing marble hearth.  I have a Victorian property so chimneys, hearths already there.

 

Use both in the depths of winter, enjoy the atmosphere, and also handy as a back up fuel source- British Gas digging the street up to renew gas mains in the street and to house so no gas for 2 days, wood burners on to keep the temp in the building up.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

Also you mention GSHP in your post, might be worth considering air source, it is more popular here. 

 

Have looked at it, but it's a toss up as far as I can see. On the one hand ASHP  cheaper to install but 
on the other hand it's most efficient in the Spring and Autumn, unless I missed something on that.

Whereas GSHP is more expensive but a more uniform source all year round? 

KInda why adding the logburner as backup and obviously for effect. But I'd rather not also fit something like
a secondary gas boiler which I have seen advocated with ASHP

We also have an acre of land so GSHP seems easy to achieve.

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GSHP involves a lot of work, lots of brine, pumps etc indoors so noise levels higher. Like many here I have a small ASHP, installed it myself (basic plumbing skills), virtually silent, copes all year round. (And I bought it cheap on Ebay).

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I was originally planning a GSHP myself.  Until I found the cost of the in ground pipe and anti freeze to fill it cost more than the ASHP and that was not even considering the cost of installing it.

 

And then every 10 years or so you have to replace the anti freeze.

 

The small improvement in eficciency compared to an ASHP would never have made it worthwhile.

 

Another benefit, a monoblock ASHP puts all the noisy bits outside rather than in the house.

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18 minutes ago, CADjockey said:

But I'd rather not also fit something like
a secondary gas boiler which I have seen advocated with ASHP


If it is sized right then there is no need. GSHP is expensive to install and expensive to run and maintain. You may also struggle to find anyone to work on it as they are few and far between. 

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2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I was originally planning a GSHP myself.  Until I found the cost of the in ground pipe and anti freeze to fill it cost more than the ASHP and that was not even considering the cost of installing it.

 

And then every 10 years or so you have to replace the anti freeze.

 

The small improvement in eficciency compared to an ASHP would never have made it worthwhile.

 

Another benefit, a monoblock ASHP puts all the noisy bits outside rather than in the house.

 

That's the conclusion we came to too.  We're on an acre plot so would have had the room and initially GSHP was the plan until we looked at things and for the reasons above it's just not worth the investment.

 

Simon

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