Building the Dream s6e4 - Are they exaggerating the profits?

[AliG]

Thanks Dave, I thought around £50 a point plus some overhead. Good for costing mine up.

 

They had a lot of LED strip lights but there was no sign or mention of home automation so it seemed bizarrely expensive.

 

My builder has put a much lower price in the quote for a much larger build. But we need to know the final electric plan to confirm it. There are extras such as distributing TV and WiFi around the house and heating controls etc but even adding all this in I wouldn't expect to get to £35,000.

[Steptoe]

I'd agree with @ProDave

Allow 1 hour per point, that's standard dot and dab or TF,

and 2hours per down light, marking out is a pita, and can become surprisingly time consuming.

Build type can make a massive difference too, if all the drops are in conduit, then +1/2hr, if being chased into block, then another +1/2hr,

But 35K, that's a BIG house,!! 

The biggest domestic I have ever done came in at just under 19K, and that was a massive house, and very high spec, lots of automation, 3 x ASHP solar thermal, and PV , supplied by AN Other, we only connected/wired it. 

An good 3/4 bed house usually comes in about 6-8 K for a good spec.

Versus a cheaper spec 'normal' house which can be done for about 3+1/2K.

 

[NSS]

Tonight's episode featured a 213m2 two storey build on the banks of a Yorkshire canal on a plot that regularly floods (and promptly did during the build). Land cost £160k, build budget £250k, projected finished value £550k. Final build cost was £360k despite reducing the spec and miraculously the valuation on completion had jumped to £795k. 

 

If I could get £795k rather than the £550k origninally estimated from the plans then I'd be selling it and building one in the middle of the canal because it would surely be worth at least a million! 

[AliG]

Haven't had time to watch tonight's, leaving it for tomorrow.

[Jeremy Harris]

It's getting to be hilarious, guessing how much they will fiddle the numbers by each week!
 

For a bit of reality, over 3 years, in an area where house prices didn't really dip during the recession, but just held steady and then starting increasing again afterwards, the value of our completed new build increased by just under 12%, so very roughly 4% per annum.  I know these figures are reasonably accurate as they were both from surveyors, not estate agents.  That fits reasonably well with other house price changes in the area.  We're in an expensive bit of the South, not as pricey as the South East, but still in "London commuter" territory, with a good main line service to Waterloo.

 

Our site was around the same price as the one in last nights programme, after we'd got it level and ready to build on; we were given a site valuation before we built the house of around £150k. 

 

What I want to know, is, how on earth can a house on a flood-prone site in Yorkshire increase in value by over 44% over a couple of years?

Edited February 8, 2017 by JSHarris

[ToughButterCup]

3 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

It's getting to be hilarious, guessing how much they will fiddle the numbers by each week!

[...]

 

What I want to know, is, how on earth can a house on a flood-prone site in Yorkshire increase in value by over 44% over a couple of years?

 

It's the whole point for us....... and we usually end up cringing. With embarrassment. 

[Dudda]

Completely agree with above comments and the crazy estimate. It's not like they had a high spec finish which would justify the increase valuation.

 

What I can't understand is what happens the car when they get 18 inches of a flood. They didn't have a ramp or anything for the car to drive up on and had three cars parked in front of the house on day of final filming which would get destroyed. Anything you store in a shed like a lawnmower would also need to be constantly raised.

[Wrekin1]

On 03/02/2017 at 11:08, Steptoe said:

I'd agree with @ProDave

Allow 1 hour per point, that's standard dot and dab or TF,

and 2hours per down light, marking out is a pita, and can become surprisingly time consuming.

Build type can make a massive difference too, if all the drops are in conduit, then +1/2hr, if being chased into block, then another +1/2hr,

But 35K, that's a BIG house,!! 

The biggest domestic I have ever done came in at just under 19K, and that was a massive house, and very high spec, lots of automation, 3 x ASHP solar thermal, and PV , supplied by AN Other, we only connected/wired it. 

An good 3/4 bed house usually comes in about 6-8 K for a good spec.

Versus a cheaper spec 'normal' house which can be done for about 3+1/2K.

 

Apologies for pulling this thread a little off topic but do you mind if I as if the figures you quote for a "good 3/4 bed..." and "verses a cheaper spec..." are for the full job including material and labour? Just that it will help me validate (or otherwise) some of my cost estimates.

[Steptoe]

10 minutes ago, Wrekin1 said:

Apologies for pulling this thread a little off topic but do you mind if I as if the figures you quote for a "good 3/4 bed..." and "verses a cheaper spec..." are for the full job including material and labour? Just that it will help me validate (or otherwise) some of my cost estimates.

Yes. Both include materials and labour, the price difference would be things like LED lighting , and quality and quantity thereof, data points, or lack off, etc. Number of sockets, electric showers, type of wall construction , access to site , lots of variables.

[Wrekin1]

10 minutes ago, Steptoe said:

Yes. Both include materials and labour, the price difference would be things like LED lighting , and quality and quantity thereof, data points, or lack off, etc. Number of sockets, electric showers, type of wall construction , access to site , lots of variables.

Thanks, that's a big help. I seem to be in the right ballpark. The intention is these will be "good" but not "dream house" 4 bed, new build TF with a service area between the TF and plasterboard and on a site with easy access.

[Steptoe]

18 minutes ago, Wrekin1 said:

Thanks, that's a big help. I seem to be in the right ballpark. The intention is these will be "good" but not "dream house" 4 bed, new build TF with a service area between the TF and plasterboard and on a site with easy access.

By access I should have said,

Other trades getting in the way/waiting times for other trades to (for example) board between 1st and 2nd fix, 

Going blind, you can do a 'good' 4bed TF for £6k , but, I have seen some where upon getting a price the client suddenly decides the lights they now want are over a grand cost difference alone, never mind the extra labour involved.

[ProDave]

And add in the cost of changing the owners first choice of light fitting, for their second choice when they find they don't like the first one (after you have fitted them of course). That's why I only do estimates, not fixed prices....
 

[Wrekin1]

If I turn out to be one of those two clients someone needs to take me out and shoot me!

[ProDave]

Back on topic. Just watched las nights BTD  Several things jumped out at me.

 

What foundations system did they use? The first thing you see is lots of hardcore / type1? material being poured and rollered. No sign of trenches. Is that a passive slab? Is that okay on a plot that floods regularly?

 

Then they went and CHOSE to start building with the house in a different orientation to that agreed with planning, taking a huge gamble that they might be forced to pull it down and build in the right place. Fortunately they got away with that one.

 

And finally they had ASSUMED services were available. £40K and several weeks later after negotiating wayleaves they got connected.

 

Lots of lessons how not to do it there I think.
 

[NSS]

I assumed the type 1 was just being used to build up the ground level as it appeared to be a traditional block and beam floor.

[AliG]

I just watched it too Dave and had exactly the same thoughts. It reminded me of old episode of Property Ladder where it appeared no matter how idiotic people were they still made a profit.

 

They also said they had an architect and main contractor but claimed they were "project managing"

 

The house was alright. I quite liked the black doors and windows. I don't know the area the house is in, but the massive value variations are ridiculous. A very nice self built house is unlikely to be worth more than 10% above the normal valuation in the area, house values are very anchored to price/sq ft plus an allowance for any works needed to bring a place up to scratch. A house can't suddenly be worth 40% more than expected for no reason.

[Ferdinand]

Comment on wrong thread. Deleted.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Ferdinand

[swisscheese]

On 08/02/2017 at 20:58, ProDave said:

...

And finally they had ASSUMED services were available. £40K and several weeks later after negotiating wayleaves they got connected.

Lots of lessons how not to do it there I think.
 

I did feel for them, I think The home owner said they had budgeted 10k for services, so 40k would be a shock for anyone.  I've been amazed how difficult Service providers can be to deal with and not something I was expecting. A kind of take it or leave it attitude.

[Jeremy Harris]

24 minutes ago, swisscheese said:

I did feel for them, I think The home owner said they had budgeted 10k for services, so 40k would be a shock for anyone.  I've been amazed how difficult Service providers can be to deal with and not something I was expecting. A kind of take it or leave it attitude.

 

 

Me too, the utility companies were a complete PITA to deal with, with Openreach being the worst by far, and SSE as our DNO coming a very close second. 

 

I think the problem is that if you buy a building plot, your solicitor won't do any of these checks, and neither will the planners when granting PP, so it's entirely down to the buyer to do some research before making an offer to see how much it's likely to cost to get services in. 

 

Our case is a reasonable, if, perhaps, extreme, example of how things can be taken for granted and come back and bite you as the plot purchaser.  Our plot had been granted planning permission in around 2004, following a prolonged battle with the planners and a few applications.  The buyer was a gentleman who wanted to build a house for him and his wife as their retirement house (just like us).  The seller was a chap well-known in the village for being a bit on the sharp side when it came to development (he'd bought an old orchard, subdivided it and built some apparently less than well-built bungalows on the top section of it).  The chap that bought our plot originally trusted the seller (his first mistake), trusted the plans were accurate (his second mistake) and assumed that because the planning application (on which the permission had been granted) said that mains water and sewerage were available he trusted that too.

 

When the buyer of the plot had completed the purchase, he discovered there was an unmarked big three phase power cable running diagonally across the plot, and only about a foot below the surface.  He then discovered that the nearest water main was 140 metres away, and would cost a lot to connect to, and that the nearest main sewer was about 80m away up a steep hill and would also cost a lot to connect to.  The combined cost of moving the three phase cable, taking down a power pole, connecting to the water main and connecting to the sewer came to more than he paid for the plot.  He simply didn't have the funds to continue, so the plot sat as an untidy and very overgrown mess for the next 7 years, and all he did was renew the planning permission every three years.  He put the plot on the market when the planners told him that they would not renew the planning permission in future, and that he would have to re-submit a new application.

 

That's when we came along.  We looked at the plot, liked it and I went off to read the planning files online.  We didn't want to build the bungalow that had PP, so knew we'd need a new application.  I had loads of really good advice on the old Ebuild forum, and that encouraged me to do research on services, very much like this thread.  That's when I found out about the cable, the high cost of getting mains water and sewerage and, a bit later, a big boundary error.  All told the plot was unsaleable at that stage, so I called the estate agent and said that although we were interested, the plot development cost was way too high and it was misrepresented on his particulars,  He asked for copies of the quotes I'd had, plus the topo survey evidence that showed the Land Registry Title Plan was in error and told the seller he couldn't market it as it was.  We made a very much lower offer, to take account of the high costs, and eventually (a year after first seeing the plot!) completed the purchase.

 

From what I've read here and on the old Ebuild forum, this sort of thing is far from uncommon, and it's one reason that I'll always try and highlight the issue of doing full and poper checks before you agree to buy a plot.

Edited February 10, 2017 by JSHarris

[oldkettle]

On 2/2/2017 at 18:36, AliG said:

I have been getting quotes recently for the laundry room in the house where we are going to have full height cabinets.

 

Frankly I hated paying up £4-500 per cabinet including fitting for just the cabinetry. Then there are appliances, worktops etc over and above this, but I don't have the time to do it myself and they will probably do a nicer job than me. In the current house I bought the cabinets from Homebase and built and fitted them myself. If you do this you are probably talking £100-200 per cabinet. Lots of drawers do push the prices a bit higher than these figures.

 

The new place will have a Callerton Kitchen, as I have in my current house. It was quite nice to buy something made in the UK. The cabinetry where I have a lot of 1000mm wide deep drawers is coming in at around 700-800 a cabinet. That's in a combination of high gloss and real walnut.

 

I balk at that price yet it seems some of these places are charging £2000 a cabinet or more. Often the only difference is how nice the door is and the basic cabinets are very similar.

 

Hi,

 

If what you are after are the drawers and you can get 2*500mm instead of a single 1000mm wide ones, systems like Elfa may be useful. They can be put inside a cabinet as well. We bought it here http://www.theholdingcompany.co.uk/elfa/elfa-drawer-system.html - platinum colour although white is cheaper. They have good sales a few times a year where prices are lower AND there is a discount on the first order. We ended up paying just over 1K for 2m*2m area for our built in wardrobe and we are very happy as it does exactly what we need.