Room layout advice, please offer anything that you can!

[Buildmeupbuttercup]

Hi all, 

 

So we are about to get the keys for the below floorplan and would like to extend it out by 3 or 4 metres.

The difficulty is that we want to add in all of the below too:

a utility room

office

closet for coats

bathroom.  The layout of the downstairs makes all of this difficult without having to use rooms to enter others, please can I have suggestions of what you would do?

 

 

 

 

I created the below as we thought like most other conversions, we have 9 metres worth of patio doors along the back wall, but if you'd totally change this, please feel free, as I am not loving having to go through the utility and office just to go to the toilet but also cant put the door at the front in the hallway or else we won't have space for a closet which will also give us access to the space under the 2 flights of stairs (image not perfect but best I could do on an app!). We would like the bathroom to have a small shower cubicle too somehow as may need to use the office downstairs as a bedroom for  grandparent one day....

 

We will look into gaining entry to the office through the front of the house but not sure this will be possible without adding huge costs and it is our forever home so not worried about potential selling costs in the future too much. Appreciate any advice!

 

Thanks

 

[Ferdinand]

Can you post a plan of the upstairs, and an orientation sketch or map with adjacent houses, roadway, plot shape, and North arrow. And a bit more about your approach - is this cobbled together bits do-the-minimum, or a particular budget (25k, 50k, 100k?, 150k?). Won't be a cheap project.

 

Do you plan to lose the garage? Are you happy just turning the existing dining into a study / office / spare bed?

 

I would also like to know which internal walls are stud / block / structural.

 

That will get you far better comments, as I think there are fundamental questions here.

 

For me the existing hall-shower-kitchen-closet area is a core blockage, as it is very subdivided. I don't think turning several rooms into corridors is necessarily the best way ? . Also worth considering what is very difficult to move, such as soil pipes. Moving stairs can be done, but will add a general 6-10k to the cost, once you have buggered about with the upstairs as well.

 

If you are happy to lose the garage, I would be looking as the start at putting the office and bathroom semi-detached in the garage, accessed by a lobby from the hall, so that when you are in your dotage you have a more private set-apart bed-bath area. 

 

Ferdinand

 

[Gav_P]

Maybe access the office from the hallway, and have the closet as the entrance to the toilet? 

[Declan52]

Have the stairs turned at the bottom by a few steps which will push it back giving you enough room for a toilet and sink under the stairs. A door in the hallway to access the office. You can then make the utility room much bigger with the toilet under the stairs.

The wall between the utility and office can be moved to suit which room you want to be bigger.

 

[AliG]

This arrangement would have the absolute minimum of changes to current walls and be the cheapest. Extending out to the back is easy assuming there are no overlooking issues etc so I have ignored this.

 

Your suggested layout would be quite expensive for what you would achieve, I have tried to change as few existing walls as possible, so kept the side door as the utility rooms door, kept the WC, kept the door into the kitchen, kept the front door and so on. I tried to keep the garage wall but it is already pretty narrow and it would need insulation, so I made it wider.

 

This arrangement allows you to keep a WC for guests and have an extra en suite bedroom or study.

 

I assume you can have a cupboard under the stairs, the wardrobe I have shown could have a door into the study or into the hall depending on what would be most useful. Ideally more information would allow people to have a better idea of what is possible,

 

I am not clear why you wanted to move the stairs which would be very expensive and change upstairs as well unless you want to achieve something that we cannot see upstairs.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by AliG

[Buildmeupbuttercup]

Thank you all for your replies and so sorry for the confusion! Just put in whatever stairs I could for now on the IKEA app to try to explain my changes (architect drawings still to be sketched as very early stages) but I can assure you, we don’t plan to touch the stairs, although they are the biggest problem! Interesting suggestion to move the lower steps but I think we may have to work with them as they are... 

 

Unfortunately the garage seems completely separate apart from

the current entrance to it and can’t be accessed from the house easily (detached house pic below) but I can ask my builders about it... we don’t mind not being able to access it from the front door though. 
 

We have estimated about 100k for all the work and are hoping to do it all over the next 6 months. Happy to lose the garage, using half for an office and so glad to lose the dining room to the abyss of toys we have accumulated. 
 

We definitely need a shower so interesting suggestion to make it a separate room at the back! 
 

Not sure about the toilet under the stairs as I lose access to the space under the second deck of stairs and was hoping to make this into a closet, see 2nd pic of what we are now thinking  (scrapped the idea of a closet as we want access to the wc from the hallway and sorry tried to lay the hallway out better on the planning app though the stairs aren’t correctly placed and end outside the house! 
 

 

 

 

[Buildmeupbuttercup]

Sorry to add full floor plan

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Buildmeupbuttercup

[Mr Punter]

48 minutes ago, Buildmeupbuttercup said:

 

If you want that house to be on Play School you will also need a round window!

Edited January 12, 2021 by Mr Punter

[Buildmeupbuttercup]

16 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

 

If you want that house to be on Play School you will also need a round window!

Haha yes but thankfully that isn’t my issue at the minute ?

[Russdl]

2 hours ago, Buildmeupbuttercup said:

Just put in whatever stairs I could for now on the IKEA app to try to explain my changes

 

if that IKEA app isn’t letting you show us what you want to achieve just sketch your ideas on a scrap of paper, take a photo and post that, it’ll save you time and get your ideas across more effectively I reckon. 

[Russell griffiths]

Why do you want a 9m patio door, the cost will be huge. The maintenance overwhelming, and long term poor insulation and the rest of it. 

 

What im basing this on, when we had a house in Australia we had. 6m triple sliding door leading out to the swimming pool, now we are building over here we thought of having the same, then we did some thinking on how many days a year you would open it right up and decided on a smaller door and a picture window, the door is just over 5m and the window 3m, the window comes down low and has a window seat in front of it for sitting and reading on a Sunday morning. 

 

My configuration could potentially save you  £5-6-7000 as the door cost will be huge but also the steel work above it will be a major bit of engineering, with a central pier you reduce all the costs and hassle. 

[AliG]

The garage at 2.48m wide is too narrow for most modern cars so you are as well using it for living space. Although it looks like the size and value of house where people might expect a garage.

 

However, your suggested plans will not work. You cannot split that width ways into two rooms. The laundry room will not be wide enough to have cabinets/washing machine/dryer in it. Also you would need to insulate and plasterboard the walls on the interior which would lose you at least another 150mm plus you have the thickness of the wall between the two rooms.

 

Thus you would need to fill in the space between the garage and the porch if you want to pursue this idea. The problem then is that you would lose the bottom of that nice arched window on the half landing. This is certainly doable but would be expensive and considerably change the front of the house.

 

The easiest/cheapest option would be to make what you have marked as laundry simply a corridor to the home office and the bathroom a little wider. Then you would need to cut out a corner at the back to the kitchen for the laundry room, or maybe between the old dining room and new lounge area, which is not ideal in itself.

 

Is there a reason fro wanting a full bath/shower room on the ground floor as there is no bedroom there? It might be better to keep the WC, have a lager home office with a shorter corridor to it and then lose bedroom 2 to make a full master suite for bedroom 1. Or if you like the top floor reconfigure it to be a master bedroom and en suite. You could probably also move the laundry room upstairs if you do this. This is a better place for it anyway unless you  like to hang laundry outside.

 

If what you are wanting to do is bring the house up to more modern standards, adding an en suite would be pretty much key and more useful than adding a larger ground floor bathroom. If it is for access issues then that is different. Unfortunately though if access is the issue, it will be very hard to use the home office as a useful bedroom as it will only be 2.3m wide once insulated and boarded out.

[PeterW]

Looking at your layout you seem to be combining the lounge, dining and kitchen along with part of the hall into a single room ..? You’ve then gone for a front extension (that will need planning permission AFAIK) and then really not gained much in space. 
 

The engineering cost of putting in the steelwork needed for the combination of those rooms would be phenomenal as you have removed both spine walls, and then added the complexity of a 9m opening across the back. At a quick fag packet calculation, the steels in the back of the house alone will be 533x210x122 so weigh over a tonne each, and the spine will be similar. Without knowing the joist layout, I expect you may have to remove the floors potentially or will at least end up with 200mm drops in to the rooms where the current walls are from the ceilings which will look a mess. Not knowing where you are in the U.K., that structural work alone could be £40-60k. That’s before you have made any other changes to the building. 
 

I would be putting a full width back extension at 3.5m deep across the whole building and getting that to do the work of your current lounge diner layout. Then rework the other rooms, you have space to use part of the garage and still retain some for storage. 
 

 

[Ferdinand]

There is some very good thinking here, but you have lots of very different options and they need reflection.

 

TBH I think  that it is important to take time upfront to get this right - plan 9-12 months, not 6, in toto.

 

And give yourself  several weeks now to think carefully about layout, and then 1-2 weeks away from it for it to steep in your background head.

 

I agree it is good to forget a front extension - means you need no PP depending on close-to-boundary at the sides. I think looking at the loft extension too, that a priority should be to avoid a perceived rabbit-warren house; keep it uncomplicated for layout.

[Ferdinand]

We still need North.

 

Do you intend to spend your time in a N-side kitchen and lounge? (if that is what it is).

 

F

[Buildmeupbuttercup]

4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Why do you want a 9m patio door, the cost will be huge. The maintenance overwhelming, and long term poor insulation and the rest of it. 

 

What im basing this on, when we had a house in Australia we had. 6m triple sliding door leading out to the swimming pool, now we are building over here we thought of having the same, then we did some thinking on how many days a year you would open it right up and decided on a smaller door and a picture window, the door is just over 5m and the window 3m, the window comes down low and has a window seat in front of it for sitting and reading on a Sunday morning. 

 

My configuration could potentially save you  £5-6-7000 as the door cost will be huge but also the steel work above it will be a major bit of engineering, with a central pier you reduce all the costs and hassle. 

 

4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Why do you want a 9m patio door, the cost will be huge. The maintenance overwhelming, and long term poor insulation and the rest of it. 

 

What im basing this on, when we had a house in Australia we had. 6m triple sliding door leading out to the swimming pool, now we are building over here we thought of having the same, then we did some thinking on how many days a year you would open it right up and decided on a smaller door and a picture window, the door is just over 5m and the window 3m, the window comes down low and has a window seat in front of it for sitting and reading on a Sunday morning. 

 

My configuration could potentially save you  £5-6-7000 as the door cost will be huge but also the steel work above it will be a major bit of engineering, with a central pier you reduce all the costs and hassle. 

 We absolutely love this idea and funnily enough had been thinking of large windows on either side of a door as agreed, in the UK weather we would rarely open it up fully and 10k on set of doors is ridiculous. I love the window seat idea and this way keeping the central pier, are you at the above stage? Would love to see more pictures when you have them! 

 

Thank you for your thoughts!

[Buildmeupbuttercup]

3 hours ago, AliG said:

The garage at 2.48m wide is too narrow for most modern cars so you are as well using it for living space. Although it looks like the size and value of house where people might expect a garage.

 

However, your suggested plans will not work. You cannot split that width ways into two rooms. The laundry room will not be wide enough to have cabinets/washing machine/dryer in it. Also you would need to insulate and plasterboard the walls on the interior which would lose you at least another 150mm plus you have the thickness of the wall between the two rooms.

 

Thus you would need to fill in the space between the garage and the porch if you want to pursue this idea. The problem then is that you would lose the bottom of that nice arched window on the half landing. This is certainly doable but would be expensive and considerably change the front of the house.

 

The easiest/cheapest option would be to make what you have marked as laundry simply a corridor to the home office and the bathroom a little wider. Then you would need to cut out a corner at the back to the kitchen for the laundry room, or maybe between the old dining room and new lounge area, which is not ideal in itself.

 

Is there a reason fro wanting a full bath/shower room on the ground floor as there is no bedroom there? It might be better to keep the WC, have a lager home office with a shorter corridor to it and then lose bedroom 2 to make a full master suite for bedroom 1. Or if you like the top floor reconfigure it to be a master bedroom and en suite. You could probably also move the laundry room upstairs if you do this. This is a better place for it anyway unless you  like to hang laundry outside.

 

If what you are wanting to do is bring the house up to more modern standards, adding an en suite would be pretty much key and more useful than adding a larger ground floor bathroom. If it is for access issues then that is different. Unfortunately though if access is the issue, it will be very hard to use the home office as a useful bedroom as it will only be 2.3m wide once insulated and boarded out.

 Yep thankfully the outside has a huge drive to fit a few cars so rather convert that space to an office for now, then my in laws will live with us eventually so thinking long term in case they one day need a wheelchair etc and for convenience. 

 

This is exactly why I posted on here, thank you. Not having a clue about building we wondered whether splitting that space width ways would work. Not wanting to fill the space between the garage and porch really, but its definitely worth a consideration, hadn't considered that window being affected, its my fave feature of the house! Using the above laundry as a walkway (which it already is) and making the bathroom longer (down into space of the garage) is a good idea. I really want a utiity space though so maybe I need to use a corner of the larger room. 

 

Laundry upstairs apparently is a no go

 

Main reason for making ensuite is the future reason but I guess no point if its not easily accessible from the room...

 

Thank you for your thoughts!

 

 

[Buildmeupbuttercup]

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

Looking at your layout you seem to be combining the lounge, dining and kitchen along with part of the hall into a single room ..? You’ve then gone for a front extension (that will need planning permission AFAIK) and then really not gained much in space. 
 

The engineering cost of putting in the steelwork needed for the combination of those rooms would be phenomenal as you have removed both spine walls, and then added the complexity of a 9m opening across the back. At a quick fag packet calculation, the steels in the back of the house alone will be 533x210x122 so weigh over a tonne each, and the spine will be similar. Without knowing the joist layout, I expect you may have to remove the floors potentially or will at least end up with 200mm drops in to the rooms where the current walls are from the ceilings which will look a mess. Not knowing where you are in the U.K., that structural work alone could be £40-60k. That’s before you have made any other changes to the building. 
 

I would be putting a full width back extension at 3.5m deep across the whole building and getting that to do the work of your current lounge diner layout. Then rework the other rooms, you have space to use part of the garage and still retain some for storage. 
 

 

No notplanning on using the hall, sorry for the confusion. Wouldn't going into the garden make it a back extension? Sorry for confusing you! Wouldn't it make much of a difference? Please can you explain why?

 

Yes we had estimated around 60k costs for engineering alone, hoping that 40k does the rest.... Guess we want american size house in an west london home...  Thank you for your thoughts. 

[Buildmeupbuttercup]

3 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

There is some very good thinking here, but you have lots of very different options and they need reflection.

 

TBH I think  that it is important to take time upfront to get this right - plan 9-12 months, not 6, in toto.

 

And give yourself  several weeks now to think carefully about layout, and then 1-2 weeks away from it for it to steep in your background head.

 

I agree it is good to forget a front extension - means you need no PP depending on close-to-boundary at the sides. I think looking at the loft extension too, that a priority should be to avoid a perceived rabbit-warren house; keep it uncomplicated for layout.

So much food for thought, it's brilliant and just what we need before we get the builders to look and quote. We don't even know what we want, so how can we expect builders to quote us!

 

Unfortunately we cannot afford to pay for 2 home mortgages for longer than 6 months really, then looking to rent the current home ASAP.  Avoid a rabbit warren house meaning lots of through rooms? Thank you for your thoughts!

[Buildmeupbuttercup]

3 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

We still need North.

 

Do you intend to spend your time in a N-side kitchen and lounge? (if that is what it is).

 

F

I dont even understand what you mean but it sounds interesting, please can you elaborate? 

[Mr Punter]

1 minute ago, Buildmeupbuttercup said:

I dont even understand what you mean but it sounds interesting, please can you elaborate? 

 

Which way is North?

[PeterW]

6 minutes ago, Buildmeupbuttercup said:

No notplanning on using the hall, sorry for the confusion. Wouldn't going into the garden make it a back extension? Sorry for confusing you! Wouldn't it make much of a difference? Please can you explain why?

 

Yes we had estimated around 60k costs for engineering alone, hoping that 40k does the rest.... Guess we want american size house in an west london home...  Thank you for your thoughts. 

Yes a back extension - quicker easier and cheaper than the engineering you’re proposing as you will get the space without doing internal rework such as massive structural changes such as 9m steels. You could widen the two rear  openings and go out into the garden with the extension without putting planning in place (assuming no conservation area and you still have permitted development rights) and it can be done quickly and easily. 
 

I don’t know many companies that would take that as drawn on with your budget as there are some huge unknowns, and if you are paying London prices then I don’t think your budget is realistic - sorry !  

[Buildmeupbuttercup]

Yes sorry I had meant back extension all along and definitely not moving any stairs or hallway etc. Wow ok. What do you think our budget should be up to? 

[Buzz]

HI @Buildmeupbuttercup do you have an arial view of your house including the plot ? if you know which direction north is add this too. 

There are many on here who will be able to offer good advice on how to get the most bang for your buck once they can see this ?

[Ferdinand]

Post a Google Maps satellite view, with identifying information removed, would do.