Selling an old house - what would you do?

[Country Geek]

OK so situation:

We tried selling 4 years ago and some homebuyers surveys came back with 'possible movement.' Its an old house (over 100 years old) and I don't want anything to stop the sale. 

The sign of movement is old (see attached). 

Would I be best getting a structural survey as the seller, as a preemptive strike, so that when a buyer is ready, I can present the structural survey for them to provide to their mortgage lender? 

 

What would you do?

[joe90]

Yes, I would  get a report (as long as it’s good) so you can fend off possible delays, some would walk away without a report (risk adverse).

[bassanclan]

For the money you spend on a surveyor you could get that takes out and repointed so it looks more seamless.

 

I presume that movement hasn't occured during your ownership. What happened when you bought the house?

[joe90]

A newly pointed building join (which is what that is) may cause raised eyebrows.

[Mr Punter]

That looks awful.  A note from a structural surveyor would not satisfy me on this one.  Can you clad the wall with something?

 

The brick courses either side of the join do not line up.  The mastic has been applied by a blind man with a shovel.

[nod]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

Yes, I would  get a report (as long as it’s good) so you can fend off possible delays, some would walk away without a report (risk adverse).

Good advice 

[joe90]

26 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

A note from a structural surveyor would not satisfy me on this one.

what would?, my son bought a house last year, back bedroom you walk downhill across it but it’s not moved fir the last 50years. It put others off I am sure.

[Mr Punter]

4 minutes ago, joe90 said:

what would?, my son bought a house last year, back bedroom you walk downhill across it but it’s not moved fir the last 50years. It put others off I am sure.

 

What makes you think it has not moved for 50 years?

 

The OP wall looks a bit of a mess.  It could be a candidate for external wall insulation.

[joe90]

11 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

What makes you think it has not moved for 50 years?

because a neighbour said it was rendered 50 years ago and no cracks exist!

 

12 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

The OP wall looks a bit of a mess.

from the photo it’s just old bricks, can’t see any cracks (that’s obvious in the photo) and as I said above it’s an extension join, block bonding (but not very well or enough fir modern standards).

[Country Geek]

Its an old house, the movement hasn't happened in our tenure. Far from it. 

 

What happened when we bought it? I'm not risk averse and we had a basic survey carried out.

 

So you think get a structural engineer report to squash any concerns from buyers or from lenders or both? 

[Country Geek]

By the way a full structural report will only be £450, and then £50 to transfer it into the buyer's name.

If the report is all good, at what point would you give the information?

1. Before it becomes an issue/concern (ie on offer accepted)

2. Upon visit from mortgage lenders surveyor

3. To support any challenges brought up by mortgage lender survey?

[Gav_P]

7 minutes ago, Country Geek said:

So you think get a structural engineer report to squash any concerns from buyers or from lenders or both? 

It can’t harm... if someone was only a little concerned and needed some confirmation that’s it’s not an issue. However some people wouldn’t trust that it was independent and I expect a lender would only accept a survey from their own panel of surveyors. 

[Gav_P]

2 minutes ago, Country Geek said:

By the way a full structural report will only be £450, and then £50 to transfer it into the buyer's name.

If the report is all good, at what point would you give the information?

1. Before it becomes an issue/concern (ie on offer accepted)

2. Upon visit from mortgage lenders surveyor

3. To support any challenges brought up by mortgage lender survey?

Would you not make it available to the estate agent? So they could share it if the question comes up. 

[Country Geek]

Just now, Gav_P said:

Would you not make it available to the estate agent? So they could share it if the question comes up. 

Great point. Yes, as an ace in the hole. Last time, buyers didn't raise it. Its not obvious, (as obvious as it looks in the pic!) Its a massive wall.  Its definitely more likely a lender's issue than it is a buyer's issue. 

[Roundtuit]

Have parts of the house been built at different dates perhaps?  Looks like 'historical settlement'.  A report to that effect should help to fend off any questions if it comes up.

[Country Geek]

1 minute ago, Roundtuit said:

Have parts of the house been built at different dates perhaps?  Looks like 'historical settlement'.  A report to that effect should help to fend off any questions if it comes up.

With regards to this wall, not to my knowledge. Heres the full wall: 

[joe90]

I am still of the opinion that this is a “join” not a crack. Cracks don’t tend to be vertical and in a straight line with “block bonding” (blocks of three courses tying new to old walls). The bricks to the right of this “join” appear a slightly lighter colour and the courses tend not to line up till they get to the top of the join, which suddenly stops! And the brick courses then do line up!. Also the “join” suddenly stops at the bottom just below window cill level. Settlement cracks don’t do this IMO.

 

do the deeds have any info on building work in the past?.

Edited November 23, 2020 by joe90

[Big Jimbo]

Having your own structural survey done, and having it in your back pocket wouldnt do any harm, and if it does turn out to be a nasty, you could get a quick, cheap, render job done on it, and flog it on. Best of luck with your sale. Big Jimbo

[Country Geek]

13 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I am still of the opinion that this is a “join” not a crack. Cracks don’t tend to be vertical and in a straight line with “block bonding” (blocks of three courses tying new to old walls). The bricks to the right of this “join” appear a slightly lighter colour and the courses tend not to line up till they get to the top of the join, which suddenly stops! And the brick courses then do line up!. Also the “join” suddenly stops at the bottom just below window cill level. Settlement cracks don’t do this IMO.

 

do the deeds have any info on building work in the past?.

Yeah I guess that does make sense. The wall internally does jut out at the hallway (where this join is) so maybe they opened out the wall slightly? 

[joe90]

4 minutes ago, Country Geek said:

The wall internally does jut out at the hallway

yup, that’s about 4” (I guess) so one brick thicker. Pull out that “muck” and point it up properly. If anyone is not satisfied with that explanation let them get (and pay for) a professional opinion. ?

[Country Geek]

10 minutes ago, joe90 said:

yup, that’s about 4” (I guess) so one brick thicker. Pull out that “muck” and point it up properly. If anyone is not satisfied with that explanation let them get (and pay for) a professional opinion. ?

But wouldn't fresh pointing just raise more eyebrows? The "jut join" is still going to be there, just a little tidier. 

Structural survey = peace of mind, 450

Repoint I guess about the same, looks slightly better, still question marks. 

Both = 900! 

[Country Geek]

19 minutes ago, joe90 said:

yup, that’s about 4” (I guess) so one brick thicker. Pull out that “muck” and point it up properly. If anyone is not satisfied with that explanation let them get (and pay for) a professional opinion. ?

I still don't get this though. Why isn't it opened out at the bottom too? 

[joe90]

4 minutes ago, Country Geek said:

I still don't get this though. Why isn't it opened out at the bottom too? 

who knows! It’s over 100 years old so without ripping the floor up you won’t know what exists below, I bet it does tho.

[Country Geek]

Would it look odd if I put a massive vertical trellis ~1.5mx3m up that part of the wall?! 

[ProDave]

I would love to know what happened there.  the "join" ends 2/3 of the way up. Above that the bricks are bonded across properly.  It's like a small building got extended to the side and over the top?

 

How do you know it's going to be an issue in surveys if there is no sign of movement?

 

Any attempt to cover it up would just be seen as trying to hide a fault.