amavadia

Fitting shower bar

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Hi need some help fitting a shower bar. 150 centres but the pipes are 145.

 

ive got wall mounts and the shower cake with cranked connectors. But the smaller end of the crank does not fit on the wall mounts. 

 

Cant seem to find any crank connectors which have the larger thread on both ends either.

 

moving pipes would be almost impossible now without damaging.

 

any ideas?

9764C594-23F0-46CF-AA42-62925F1BFA21.jpeg

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The fitting you have is a front mount fitting often championed on this forum.  The idea is you adjust those for final spacing from the front then screw them to the wall and the shower bar fits straight onto those.

 

The cranked fittings you have screw into a female BSP fitting.  That is an alternative way of doing it, you fit the female BSP behind the wall at roughly the right spacing and used the cranked adaptors to make the final adjustment.

 

the two are not compatible. Apart from anything else if you could use the cranked fitting like that, the bar would be a long way off the wall.

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Those cranked things are meant to work like this as @ProDave said:

 

IMG_20201017_192112.jpg.834e271872d375ece415687a20727156.jpg

 

IMG_20201017_192135.jpg.eb560d51472ff5ae2cf080f5c546720a.jpg

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Hmmm...what if you were to ditch the silver bit with the spanner flats on. Then put a 1/2" nut over the pipe, olive then the cranked adapter.

 

Would the cover plates that go over the 3/4" end of the cranked bit be deep enough to hide your faux pas?

 

@Nickfromwales!!!!

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Hmmm...what if you were to ditch the silver bit with the spanner flats on. Then put a 1/2" nut over the pipe, olive then the cranked adapter.

 

Would the cover plates that go over the 3/4" end of the cranked bit be deep enough to hide your faux pas?

 

@Nickfromwales!!!!

 

 

I doubt the cranked bit is the right size or has a tapered inlet for an olive.

 

And if it could be engineered to work, it would still stick out to far and not get covered by the cover plates.

 

Have you cemented the pipes solid in the wall then?  The idea is there should be a bit of slack in them so you can set the final spacing then screw the brass bits to the wall at that spacing.

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46 minutes ago, ProDave said:

And if it could be engineered to work

 

OK 15mm pipe goes into the cranked fitting by a country mile:

 

IMG_20201017_194927110.thumb.jpg.0e97d9dd6af912a3015f2e2b03db5b2e.jpg

 

I could probably countersink the end a bit to make a seat for the olive. So it'd look something like this. Back of nut against the tiles. You'd lose that square plate brass backing plate thing:

 

IMG_20201017_195007597.thumb.jpg.93e4406452e88facbfe135c7c2334f00.jpg

 

Next, found in the "this is going down the tip unless I can find a hoarder to take it box" kindly donated by @PeterStarck:

 

IMG_20201017_195047821.thumb.jpg.c13df2ce8724cf0ad6f0c624c3db1ff5.jpg

 

 

What are these btw Peter?

 

Ending up something like this:

 

IMG_20201017_195236966.thumb.jpg.f101cc3eb2b3db644fd9536450979800.jpg

 

IMG_20201017_195247505.thumb.jpg.d985570fe2310cd6faab8edcf4be5d79.jpg

 

Might need a good dose of silicone to fill the gap:

 

IMG_20201017_195242623.thumb.jpg.36026bc313dc240d3c619528122e5488.jpg

 

Bits in the post if you want to have a play.

 

Edit: Sorry about the photo quality.

Edited by Onoff

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^^ @Onoff gets bodgit of the week award.

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53 minutes ago, ProDave said:

^^ @Onoff gets bodgit of the week award.

He’s just an amateur 🙄

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People, stop right there.

The fittings in the first pic are what the shower connects to, and the cranked bits go in the bin !!

I can only hope that the pipes coming out of the wall are at 150mm centres? @amavadia please measure the pipe centres and post back.

3 hours ago, Onoff said:

Those cranked things are meant to work like this as @ProDave said:

 

IMG_20201017_192112.jpg.834e271872d375ece415687a20727156.jpg

 

IMG_20201017_192135.jpg.eb560d51472ff5ae2cf080f5c546720a.jpg

.....only IF you need the offset. If the pipes are at 150mm centres then the shower goes straight onto the fittings supplied with the brass backplates.

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Also, the 1/2" side of the 3/4" x 1/2" cranked union is flat faced, so CANNOT take the bevelled edge of the olive. That can ONLY be PTFE taped and put into a female brass union and cannot be made off directly to copper as shown in "the bodge" above. Blue Peter badge for trying, but that could just blow straight off with the water pressure alone.

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5 hours ago, amavadia said:

Hi need some help fitting a shower bar. 150 centres but the pipes are 145.

 

 

 

Are the pipes loose behind the tile, do they have any wiggle in them? is it just the holes in the tiles that are spacing them at 145mm?

 

Can you cut out 2.5mm from the tile each side of each pipe and push the pipes out to widen the spacing to 150mm?

 

As has already been said - the silver threaded section with the flats on is used to compress the olive onto the bracket - the shower them screws directly on. The cranked connectors are not designed to be used with those brackets.

 

The brackets need to be spaced correctly.

 

 

Edited by wozza

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7 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Also, the 1/2" side of the 3/4" x 1/2" cranked union is flat faced, so CANNOT take the bevelled edge of the olive. That can ONLY be PTFE taped and put into a female brass union and cannot be made off directly to copper as shown in "the bodge" above. Blue Peter badge for trying, but that could just blow straight off with the water pressure alone.

 

See, this is what happens when the kids are left unsupervised!

 

Surely the olive would tighten onto the pipe to stop it popping apart? Aware it's flat, I'd have countersunk the face anyway to take the olive. 

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3 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

See, this is what happens when the kids are left unsupervised!

 

Surely the olive would tighten onto the pipe to stop it popping apart? Aware it's flat, I'd have countersunk the face anyway to take the olive. 

No it wouldn't, and don't call me Shirley ;) 

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Do you have any spare tiles? Can you get to the back of the wall without to much drama, or can you set a side a morning to carefully take off the two tiles? Yes it will take that long possibly. But each following morning you get into the shower you'll know you did it right. Even if you can't get to the back of they wall all is not lost. If you burst the plaster board weave in a dwang (nogging in England) to catch the edges  when you reinstate, use a bit of water proof glue too to stick the dwang in place for good measure.

 

I learnt that if you don't get all the fittings aligned then you always worry about leaks. Best to bite the bullet if you can and take off a tile or two.

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3 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

OK 15mm pipe goes into the cranked fitting by a country mile:

 

IMG_20201017_194927110.thumb.jpg.0e97d9dd6af912a3015f2e2b03db5b2e.jpg

 

I could probably countersink the end a bit to make a seat for the olive. So it'd look something like this. Back of nut against the tiles. You'd lose that square plate brass backing plate thing:

 

IMG_20201017_195007597.thumb.jpg.93e4406452e88facbfe135c7c2334f00.jpg

 

Next, found in the "this is going down the tip unless I can find a hoarder to take it box" kindly donated by @PeterStarck:

 

IMG_20201017_195047821.thumb.jpg.c13df2ce8724cf0ad6f0c624c3db1ff5.jpg

 

 

What are these btw Peter?

 

Ending up something like this:

 

IMG_20201017_195236966.thumb.jpg.f101cc3eb2b3db644fd9536450979800.jpg

 

IMG_20201017_195247505.thumb.jpg.d985570fe2310cd6faab8edcf4be5d79.jpg

 

Might need a good dose of silicone to fill the gap:

 

IMG_20201017_195242623.thumb.jpg.36026bc313dc240d3c619528122e5488.jpg

 

Bits in the post if you want to have a play.

 

Edit: Sorry about the photo quality.

 

Thanks for the posts and offer of the bits. If I used a nut and got rid of the wall plates the whole shower would be being held on by the pipes which im not sure is a good idea, it has the bar and then a rider bar with shower head on top too.

 

I think tomorrow I am going to try do a bit of precision drilling from the front through the tile to widen the hole in the tile. Ive put a block of wood, drilled holes the size of the pipes and put them through in the wall because I hadn't realised that you are meant to leave some play. I also thought these cranked bits would fit on the front to resolve any final adjustments needed with the wall mounts. Lucky I haven't boarded the other side of the wall but it is still going to be a bit tricky.

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errrrr,

52 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I can only hope that the pipes coming out of the wall are at 150mm centres? @amavadia please measure the pipe centres and post back

 

??

 

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7 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

Do you have any spare tiles? Can you get to the back of the wall without to much drama, or can you set a side a morning to carefully take off the two tiles? Yes it will take that long possibly. But each following morning you get into the shower you'll know you did it right. Even if you can't get to the back of they wall all is not lost. If you burst the plaster board weave in a dwang (nogging in England) to catch the edges  when you reinstate, use a bit of water proof glue too to stick the dwang in place for good measure.

 

I learnt that if you don't get all the fittings aligned then you always worry about leaks. Best to bite the bullet if you can and take off a tile or two.

 

I have spare tiles but I wouldn't dare take them off. 600 x 600 porcelain. Will give it a go to just drill small holes to the side of the existing hole and try and enlarge it. Still have access to the back so worse case ill have to cut a section of pipe out and redo it if I end up damaging it.

 

Wish I had realised the alignment had to be spot on. damit. At least I have learnt something i guess.

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Why not change to a shower manufacturer that offers telescopic pipe inlets like the Bristan does?

 

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4 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

errrrr,

 

??

 

 

The pipes are 145mm centres unfortunately. Thats the whole problem here otherwise I wouldnt have needed to use the cranked pieces and the wall mounts would have been fine connecting straight to the bar. So will try and make some more play in the pipes to spread them by another 5mm and then just use the wall mounts

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21 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

No it wouldn't, and don't call me Shirley ;) 

 

I'm missing An Officer And A Gentleman for this!

 

So I countersunk the fitting:

 

IMG_20201017_231236328.thumb.jpg.71e9feb091968cb4c6e3734bbebe5baf.jpg

 

Olive fits in the chamfered end a treat:

 

IMG_20201017_231354668.thumb.jpg.1655d90f9c5cd7807b8e87b698f4e4f0.jpg

 

A bit of Jet Blue Plus to lube things up. I'd need to take the burr off created by the countersinking so the pipe goes in further:

 

IMG_20201017_232013130.thumb.jpg.6df42cb390e6617fe559fce03732aa3e.jpg

 

Imho it works. Didn't go OTT with tightening the nut but it definitely squeezes the olive into the pipe. I'd risk it:

 

IMG_20201017_232028988.thumb.jpg.2b2e9731c40d06e102595f11abd08a23.jpg

 

(No I don't have a life 😂)

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Just now, Nickfromwales said:

Why not change to a shower manufacturer that offers telescopic pipe inlets like the Bristan does?

 

 

Its a full set not just the bar and ive already bought it

s-l1600.jpg

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Nick's is bang on and I think speaking from experience. If you have a couple of spare tiles and you can still get into the back of the wall then bite the bullet and have another go.

 

I think Nick is trying to guide you. If you don't get these fittings lined up right then you'll end up with a leak in a  few months . There is not as much play in the fittings (cranked etc) as you would like to think.

 

It's ok to make a mistake from time to time.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, amavadia said:

 

The pipes are 145mm centres unfortunately. Thats the whole problem here otherwise I wouldnt have needed to use the cranked pieces and the wall mounts would have been fine connecting straight to the bar. So will try and make some more play in the pipes to spread them by another 5mm and then just use the wall mounts

Gotcha.

Use a high speed diamond bit to enlarge the holes. Macrist bit is damn good, as porcelain is tough as old boots. example.  Use a water spray bottle to keep the drill bit soaking wet at all times. Two person job ideally. Use that to enlarge and then see if the pipes will move at all. 2.5mm on each pipe should be possible.

The weight of the shower is supported by the drill holes that you then make to fit the brass plates back to the wall with screws.

Fitted loads of these without issue so no probs there.

 

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5 minutes ago, Onoff said:

I'm missing An Officer And A Gentleman for this!


Sure you’re not watching something by Clint Eastwood running a countersink into the end of a fitting ...??!!! 
 

I’m with @Nickfromwales on this, dremel with a carbide burr and cut the edge out of the hole where the pipe is. 

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