Composting toilets and other "eco" approaches to waste management

[Oxbow16]

Hi all

 

We've got problems with our sewerage and need to get something sorted promptly!  I've been reading about sewage treatment plants this last week or two so that I can choose what will best suit our needs when we replace our existing septic tank in the next month or two.  At the same time, in the back of my mind I have been thinking about composting options, but I really don't know anything about them.  The house is plumbed in, but the bathroom needs redoing completely (including new toilet), as does the kitchen sink unit. 

 

I've been watching a few videos and reading a few web pages, but most of what I'm finding discusses the ins and outs of the compost loo, but not what options there are for dealing with the the grey and black water.  I wondered if anyone in the know would be able to explain what options are available out there?  

 

To help, here's some info:

 

- We're on heavy clay soil, with very poor percolation

- We have a stream in the garden

- We currently have a concrete septic tank (two cylindrical chambers)

- I'm not at all squeamish and happy to deal with these sorts of things

- I like to recycle and compost as much as possible.  Even with full plumbing I often choose to pee in bottles so I can use it in the garden as fertiliser, weedkiller, etc. 

- We have a bathroom upstairs, a WC downstairs, and a kitchen which will have a washing machine and dishwasher.  They're all at one end of the house and so quite close together.

 

So what options might we have available?  And aside from the practical possibilities, where does this sort of stuff sit with building control and EA (or NRW in my case)?  

 

Appreciate any thoughts.  

 

Many thanks

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

6 hours ago, Oxbow16 said:

..  And aside from the practical possibilities, where does this sort of stuff sit with building control and EA (or NRW in my case)?  

...

Here is the legal framework you should follow.  Honoured many times in the breech.

Especially in West Lancashire 

[Ferdinand]

 (I'll also  drop this  post on the other thread)

 

I think two key points amongst others for you are:

 

1 - If you go for a treatment plant, avoid one where any mechanics are in the goo. When it breaks you will be in deep sh*t, literally. Some bubble air through instead.

2 - Decide whether you want something powered or not, which will help refine your options. We used to have an unusual thing called an Aquatron for our last 15 years at the former house - which was also used in the famous Grand Design in the Cotswolds with the barn supported in mid-air, which was iirc the first Certified PH in the UK. These are easier if you have a bit of height difference (ours was installed using a Ha-Ha, GD one had it in the basement). There are other possibilities.

 

These are threads you may find as useful background, though a couple of years old:

 

 

 

 

 

Ferdinand

[ToughButterCup]

Excellent post F. Excellent. 

 

[Oxbow16]

Thank you for the replies.  

 

Some of those threads I've already read umpteen times; they're what made me sign up actually   Others I have not seen at all, so thanks for the heads up.  

 

I'm quite confident on what to look out for when it comes to the STP.  But composting loos and waste recycling are all new to me so I'm totally green (brown?) on that. 

 

After mulling it over in my sleep, I think it's all going to be a non-starter unfortunately.  I will continue to read up on the subject though, in case there are solutions I'm missing.  But as I see it, with very poor percolating ground, the grey and black water needs to be treated, and most likely a STP is the only option for that.  Ironically, the STP needs the poo to survive so it would have to go there anyway; not that I would be able to afford a STP, a discharge to stream, AND composting toilets anyhow.  So I guess the crux comes back to whether there's an alternative allowable method of dealing with the grey and black water only.  I don't know if reed beds are sufficient as a front end?  And/or whether they are feasible on poor percolating ground.  Likewise some of the tertiary treatment units...  

 

It's frustrating.  I always liked the idea of an outdoor shack composting loo that we could at least use some of the time.  But once a STP is introduced that won't even be on the menu because the plant will be calling for our poo and sulking if it doesn't get it!

[Oxbow16]

PS - the only feasible non-powered option for us is the ClearFox, but they've left me wondering why they only give a measly 2 year warranty.  Hardly displays a faith in their product, imo.  

[dpmiller]

why so focussed on warranties?

[Oxbow16]

In case it goes wrong!   

[ProDave]

I am sure we discussed this before?

 

It's a no brainer.  Air blower type treatment plant and discharge to your stream.  It really is a simple and easy system with very little to go wrong and very little maintenance.

[Oxbow16]

Thanks ProDave, I appreciate what you're saying.  And it is indeed what I will most likely be going for.  But before taking the plunge  that route, I want to explore any possible ways of incorporating a greener approach into the house.  It's looking unlikely.  But I don't want to be in a position where months / years and £10k later I hear about some other greener recycling system I wish I'd known about  before having made the decision.  

 

Like I say, I'm happy with what I need to look out for if getting a STP and discharging to the stream.  I'm just having a little side way glance towards composting/recycling/greener options...  

 

Ta

[PeterW]

You’ll need an STP to deal with the shower and bath water (classed as black water not grey water) so by the time you have finished you may as well have a full system installed. 
 

@PeterStarck has a post treatment reed bed if you want some first hand experience. 

[ProDave]

I know of one person that fitted a composting toilet and just ran sink and shower waste straight to a soakaway, and building control accepted that.  But if your ground is no good for a soakaway I can't see how that would help.  You could pump the sink waste up to an above ground filter mound system perhaps but I would hugely favour the treatment plant rather than that.

 

Unless you are building a bungalow, building control will insist on a toilet on each floor so that is likely 2 composting toilets needed.

 

What is your motve?  something that is cheap and simple to install and proven to be reliable?  Or something that is "greener" than a treatment plant?

 

[Oxbow16]

13 minutes ago, PeterW said:

You’ll need an STP to deal with the shower and bath water (classed as black water not grey water) so by the time you have finished you may as well have a full system installed. 

 

I'm pretty sure shower and bath water is classed as grey...  Where have you read it is classed as black?

 

 

13 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Unless you are building a bungalow, building control will insist on a toilet on each floor so that is likely 2 composting toilets needed.

 

What is your motve?  something that is cheap and simple to install and proven to be reliable?  Or something that is "greener" than a treatment plant?

 

 

It's actually a renovation (of sorts - the house is habitable, just needs a fair bit of work) , not a new build.  Even so, there's a loo on each floor. 

 

As for motivation, a bit of both I guess.  But greener does play a big part.  If - for arguments sake - we could have a composting / recycling type of set up and it cost the same as installing a new STP with discharge to the stream, I'd favour the former over the latter.  

 

Thanks for the replies  

[ProDave]

A very quick search finds this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Natures-Head-Contained-Composting-Quarters/dp/B009Z7EKIC

 

So thick end of £2000 for two composting toilets (no doubt cheaper ones are available)

 

That is roughly the cost of your treatment plant.

[PeterW]

14 minutes ago, Oxbow16 said:

 

I'm pretty sure shower and bath water is classed as grey...  Where have you read it is classed as black?

 

Shower and bath water can both contain fecal coliform amongst other things. It is a grey area (pardon the pun) where unless you can provide full isolation and effective treatment of the waste water then it should not be classed as grey due to bacterial contamination. 

[Onoff]

Is a reed bed an option here? Doesn't @PeterStarck run one?

 

I say that with caution as from memory didn't "the" company doing them shut up shop as an owner nearly died after cutting himself whilst maintaining the bed?

[Gone West]

29 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Is a reed bed an option here? Doesn't @PeterStarck run one?

 

I say that with caution as from memory didn't "the" company doing them shut up shop as an owner nearly died after cutting himself whilst maintaining the bed?

I did have one but I removed it about a year ago because of the risks with maintenance. 

[joe90]

I also considered a reed bed but I am on clay like you. I also read about the dangers of them and found firms no longer installing them because of the hazards. I installed a STP (vortex) and it’s very good, yes it uses a little electricity but you could always run it from solar panels to be greener I guess.