40mm Gap between blockwork

[Bri44]

45 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Unless they are a large prestige housebuilder I would say there is very little chance of that happening.

 

Sadly the way the industry works is that trades are on a price and most do not care about quality work.  Site managers come and go and are not full time employees.  Results can be shoddy.  The parapet, curved wall and clay soil have not helped here.  Many of the housebashers stick to foolproof designs that can be built using little skill and at a known cost.

 

 

They are a big developer.

I found out the site manager while my house would have been built was busted for owning a large herbal plant farm in his house, they sacked him and upgraded the fork lift truck driver to site manager. 

[Mr Punter]

5 minutes ago, Bri44 said:

 

How successful are people in making them buy a faulty house back?  There`s no denying i`ve had all these issues and probably a 1000 emails between us. 

 

I have seen cases where, for example, the mortar mix for a brick / block house was 18 sand to 1 cement.  The "remedy" was to repoint the outside!

[Bri44]

3 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

In 7 years? 

 

What was wrong there and why twice?

 

The house had been a show home for 4 years. I`ve lived in it just over 3 years. Roof replaced twice in those 3 years as well as it leaked first day i moved in. The fork lift truck driver, recently promoted to site manager said it was because they had just replaced the lead. This was a lie as when it leaked again for the first repair i went up to take pictures and videos. Lead was hanging out the mortar.

 

All my window frame, window sills and quite a few windows have been damaged by the previous company who attempted to repair the render back in Nov 2019. Paint ripped off, windows scratched, stone sills chipped and paint splashes.

 

Below is bodge attempt at fixing cracks.

 

 

 

 

[Bri44]

4 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

 

I have seen cases where, for example, the mortar mix for a brick / block house was 18 sand to 1 cement.  The "remedy" was to repoint the outside!

 

Did they buyback these properties or just do a repair job?

 

If my repair is unsatisfactory or i have issues that will take a long time to monitor what are my chances of getting them to buy it back?

 

When they were building next doors house they built a wall in my garden which i pushed over after a week. The fork lift/site manager could not communicate with the brickies as they spoke no English. He got their attention by shouting bozo and pointing to what needed doing. 

[Mr Punter]

 

They will always go for a repair if possible.

 

To get them to buy back you will need to exert considerable and sustained pressure and I do not think you have much chance of success.  The evidence on this thread indicates that the house is not built to an acceptable standard and I am not sure that you would need additional expert opinions to establish this.  Photographs and a timeline of events may be enough.  You need to escalate this as high as possible.

 

Write personally to the Chief Executive.  Explain the position and be clear and to the point.  Explain that you have attempted to go through their standard channels without success and that a referral back to those will not be acceptable.  It is sometimes worth quoting from their mission statement and pointing out how your experience contrasts with it.  Tell them that in view of this you would like them to either reverse the sale / buy back the house or present proposals to you that would find satisfactory.

 

If you can, look to social media.  Do not go out of your way to defame them or be rude in any way, just point out how disappointed you are.

 

If they think it is less hassle to just buy the house, they might just do it (subject to you signing a non-disclosure agreement).

[Bri44]

I`ll see what their technical rep and the structural engineer have to say tmw.  I have a long timeline. I`ll request a SAR from them.

I`ve been advised these repairs will always show, something i`m not happy about.

Originally to try to get out of doing the repairs they wrote to the warranty provider saying i accepted a discount to buy the house sold as seen with faults. I have this email. I then have confirmation from their recommended solicitor I used for the sale to say this is not true.

In the past i have sent letters to all the directors via recorded delivery and have escalated faults. I never get a direct answer from the directors and they`ve never come to see me for a meeting when i`ve requested it. They refer back to customer services who say what they are told to say.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Bri44

[Mr Punter]

Who is the builder?

[Gus Potter]

Hello all.

 

Bri44, I feel for you, it's torture when stuff like this happens.

 

Unfortunately, I see this type of problem more often than I wish. I hope the following will help crystalise your thought process. For all, when faced with a problem it can help to rule things out if you don't know what to do next. This leaves you with a short list of your options and this can make the decision making process easier. A lot of folk buy a property in good faith, if there is no trust then life is pretty poor for all of us.

 

I'll leave out quality of workmanship / competency of design, detailing and so on here as others with more specific knowledge and experience have touched on this already. Suffice to say some of the briefs realting to build problems  (which relate to warranties)  I have seen are frankly unbelievable, a bit like Harry Potter... That is fun this is not. It does not reflect well on the building industry.

 

I'll run through the previous posts and chip in my thoughts.

 

Bri44.. will a developer buy back a house? .. yes they will. I have seen this offer tabled..

 

Mr Punter.. good point.. in fairness it's  not always true that small builders won't step up to the plate when they get it wrong. In terms of quality of work and so on the big builders can be just as bad as small ones. Don't forget that often a big builder will perhaps get a better offer from say a timber frame manufacturer half way through a development. Someone will make a commercial decision but often no one will make sure the cheaper frame is still compatible with say the founds and the original design.. It’s often a case of "well I'm only paid from the neck down"... not my problem.

 

Russell... I would council not to appoint a Solicitor at this stage. That is actually what I often think they want you to do. I may be that they just want to shift something onto next year’s financial balance sheet! If you get a solicitor it will cost you. For the warranty provider/ big builder it essentially becomes some sort of accountancy problem until they actually need to cough up?

 

At the top end, remember that the warranty providers are an insurance company. The NHBC started out in the public interest when the government set out to improve the housing stock after the war.. Whether they are still doing so and by how much is for them to answer.

 

My experience with the NHBC differs from their original statutory brief and I'm happy to stand by the statement I have just made. In summary I often form the view that this enables them to wage a war of attrition, use their financial clout etc and this can head off having to settle for large amounts... they ( NHBC and Developers etc) know that a lot of people will give up or can't afford to seek professional advice. This is a way of mitigating the number of claims that need to be paid in full if at all.

 

Mike makes some good points. As I roughed out earlier, small cracks are hard to diagnose. If you can be sure that the movement does not pose a structural / safety risk then you maybe want to just look at ways of managing the small cracks that will appear from time to time as the building moves about, over the seasons say. The are a good few expert folk on this site that know about rendering systems and so on so hopefully they will chip in with some advice on how you can apply render systems that can cope with a bit of movement.

 

Declan also make good practical points.. all very well on paper and sitting in an office but practical experience counts for a lot and is intrinsic to any build. Experience counts!

 

Mike Graham.. Mike makes good salient points, material behavoir and the importance of looking after the materials before installation.

 

Onoff.. good forensic question as expected! No mucking about here!

 

Bassanclan touches on the NHBC...I've said enough for now and await developments.

 

Turning back to BRI44.

 

Bri. Advice I often give is once you get to this stage where you have battled away, got a bit of a result but no conclusion is to seek out someone who can take the time to undestand your particular circumstances. As a word of encouragement the email chain in this type of case can extend to more than a thousand so you're not alone.

 

If you can find and SE for eaxmple who has some experience with warranty providers, knows how they operate and can get under the bonnet then your are off to a good start.

 

I have found that once you drill down, cut through all the periferal sales and quality guff and really poke them on the technical and structural safety side of things they start to engage.

 

They may be great on damp proof membranes but generally they are not so strong and also less resourced else where.. this can help bring them to the table. It's not a technical thing per say. You use the technical side to appeal to their bottom line and it is this that get results. It make them nervous as some.. don't have a well resourced  solid structural / technical side. The argument I make is that this is going to cost you a lot more than you think! So get serious and start negotiating as adults.

 

I'll caveat that by saying that there are some that don't take this commercial and cynical view. I don't want to prod too many bears at the one time. If you want to do a bit of research look at where most of the warranty providers funds come from and draw your conclusions from that.

 

Lastly Bri, although I laid in a bit much of this is to do with people skills. There are say SE's, Surveyors, Contractors and so on that have seen it all... or most of it They are old salts at dealing with this. Often what you may need is just half a day to sit down with them. They will charge you for their advice and for listening to you but for a relatively small fee they could unlock the door.

 

I find that sometimes when dealing with builders, developers and warranty providers that rather than confronting a problem head on and playing against their strengths it's easier to just back door them.. cynical yes.. but hey it was them that let you down so what do they expect.. no friends in the desert I think is the expression.

 

 

[Bri44]

Hi Gus.

Thanks for the reply.

I have legal cover with my home insurance if I go down that route. I`ve already checked with them and they confirmed I`m covered. 

A technical team member and a SE are attending today to give me their opinion. If I think I`m being led up the garden path I have made enquiries to have my own inspection.

 

My warranty is with LABC. A smaller company. 

 

The Architect who designed this development is listed as an award winning blah blah company. Every house on the development that has the same roof as mine has had them replaced/repaired prior to me purchasing my house so my developer knew there was issues/design fault with it but sold it to me anyway when it was not fit for purpose.

When I purchased the whole pitch was tiled. Now it has lead on the curve as they said it is built incorrectly and tiles won`t fit. There was a hole under the tiles where they were going to fit a vent, then never, lead hanging off, the water build up. 

Looking closely in and outside the house I can see where they have touched up faults.

 

Here are a few more pictures of the roof before it was repaired. It still has the lead corner.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Bri44

[Onoff]

Guessing lead or even copper might indeed be the traditional option there, for what looks look, (certainly in part), a conical slate roof.

 

http://www.traditionalroofing.com/TR4_turrets.html

[Bri44]

Just looked at that link. It would appear my roof beams/joists are incorrect then as the whole roof was suppose to be tiled and the repair roofers could not get them to fit so used lead.

[Onoff]

7 minutes ago, Bri44 said:

Just looked at that link. It would appear my roof beams/joists are incorrect then as the whole roof was suppose to be tiled and the repair roofers could not get them to fit so used lead.

 

Tricky as your roof imo isn't a total conical roof. Seems to have elements of a conical and hip end. Whatever, it should at least look good.

[Bri44]

It looks better after the 2nd repair but my point was i bought a house with a fully tiled roof and they had to change it because it has been constructed wrong. 

 

The structural engineer called out. He said it`s not subsidence but there are some issues. I`ll wait for the report to see what these are.

 

Is there anyway I can find out if my expansion joints have been fitted to the blockwork and if so, where hey are located?

[Declan52]

Is there anything on the inside that could be causing the building to stress. Like a large beam carrying a roof section or a large open plan area.

From your first posts it just looked like the house has dried out and cracked in a few places but the more and more info and pics you post it's evident is way more than that.

There's no way to dress this up nice I think you have bought a turd. Unless you can find the root cause of the cracks no amount of cosmetic work will hide the fact it's still a turd.

If there was an expansion joint on a wall you would see it very clearly. It shouldn't have been plastered over as that defeats the point of one.

[Bri44]

I`ll get my ladders and check the loft. There are two expansion joints on the render that start and stop at windows and doors so they are not continuous from top to bottom. I know the blockwork should have them as well. I was wanting to know if there is a way to find them or would that involve pulling all the render off?

 

There is no open plan areas

 

Inside everything is covered with plaster board and wallpaper. 

 

I think my house should be renamed fawly towers.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Bri44
Add

[Bri44]

There is too much insulation thrown in to see if any large beams.

Where the hole was left in the roof when a vent was not fitted looks like whatever they used to cover it has come away.

Here are a few pictures of the curved part of the roof with big screws sticking through and the hole from inside.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Bri44

[Bri44]

Finally had a copy of the structural report.

Waiting on the developer to advise on what they will do and how long the work will take.

 

What are your thoughts on whats wrong?

 

 RECOMMENDATIONS

 

The vertical cracking which is evident in parts of the external walls has resulted from shrinkage of the blockwork in the outer leaf of the cavity walls. This requires repair using a crack stitching repair process but additional works are also required to the existing movement joints. The crack stitch repair involves the installation of bed joint reinforcement using Helibars by Helifix or similar. The repair process should be carried out by following the guide provided by Helifix ref. CS02 – Crack stitching a rendered cavity wall using Helibars, a copy of which is appended to this report.

 

The Helibars will be 1.0m long extending 500mm from the crack on either side. These should be placed at a minimum of 450mm centres, every other bed joint. To facilitate the installation render will need to be cut out from the repair area and replaced with stainless steel eml reinforcement in the render to strengthen the repair across the old crack line. A complete re-rendering of the external walls may be considered appropriate and if implement the render should be reinforced across the old crack lines.

 

The existing movement joint in the side wall should be extended through the recessed panel between 1st and 2nd floor window openings. I would also recommend introducing flat stainless steel ties across the joint, debonded on one side to allow movement. The vertical movement joints should also be extended through the cast-stone band at 1st floor level and at parapet level, and through the parapet-wall coping at roof level.

 

There is a horizontal crack in the side wall at 2nd floor level and this has been caused due to a DPC in the outer blockwork leaf. This DPC needs to be removed and the wall made good. Re-rendering across the repair introducing stainless steel eml to reinforce the render across the old crack line. The other horizontal crack at 2nd floor-window-cill level in the side wall requires crack stitching as specified above but using Helibars placed vertically across the crack placed at 450mm centres. If whilst undertaking the repairs in becomes apparent that there is a horizontal DPC in this location as well then this will need to be removed.

 

The defective cast-stone window cills should be repaired.

[MikeGrahamT21]

Just a thought, but assuming you have a mortgage, have you spoken to them about it? Technically the property belongs to them if you do have one, and they will have a lot more leverage and internal legal teams to apply some serious pressure to the builder.

[Bri44]

I was not able to remortgage because of covenant restrictions on the deeds. I had to pay the developer solicitors to add someone to the deeds, it`s freehold. My offer expired due to the time dealing with said solicitor. Then my house was bodged up with first repair attempt, left 3 different colours and devalued so I could not ask another lender as they do a pre lend inspection valuation. 

I will speak to my existing lender to see what they say.

 

Any thoughts on the work suggested as repair and will this devalue the house/make it harder to sell?

[Carrerahill]

On 03/08/2020 at 12:55, Bri44 said:

Would the mortar not cause structural issues regarding the strength etc?

 

It is recommended that mortar joints should be no more than 10mm.

Not on a perp joint - mortar isn't giving any real strength when in shear like it is in a perp joint. 

 

Mortar is basically a filler, it obviously binds the bricks and blocks together but it isn't actually strong in it's own right, basically it is "filler/bedding" material which in compression has excellent strength.

 

If you look at blockwork after a year or two you can often see hairline cracks around a lot of mortar joints, this is normal, the mortar may not actually be chemically "stuck" to the brick/block but it still conforms to the surface of the brick/block and will stay in place well as it's locked into place. That wall isn't now weak because of these little cracks.

 

Look at sleeper walls in solums and what not, they leave a whopping great gap between the bricks for ventilation, these walls are often structural too supporting brick walls directly above, they are fine. 

 

Walls also gain strength from their own weight and the compression on all the joints. If you have ever tried to remove a single brick from low down in a wall you will know what I mean. Also consider that walls sit on a piece of DPC - basically a piece of plastic which the mortar it laid, that first brick or block on a DPC is not actually bonded to the bricks under the DPC.

 

 

[PeterW]

I would want the whole lot stripped back. I’ve seen blockwork cracking under plaster, I would suggest that the render is removed, and then the surveyor identifies all areas for repair /crack remediation.
 

From that they can then agree all repairs and the helibars should be epoxy mortared into place and mesh overlay put in place. Then the full render with expansion gaps etc should be redone preferably with an acrylic render.  

[Mr Punter]

It still seems strange that there has been so much cracking.  I like the look of the place but it has caused a surprising number of issues.  Hacking off that render looks like a nightmare job but it will look crap otherwise.

 

Hopefully now the building has been up a while, with the remedial work there should be no more issues on the render front.

 

Who is paying for this?

[Bri44]

Thanks guys. The developer is paying as i reported all the faults within the first two years, approximately 6 months after moving in for the render cracks. November 2017 and they were told by LABC Feb 2018 to have all repairs done within 3 months.

 

How would they go about removing the DPC they inserted halfway up the house? For all i know they have installed more elsewhere. There are hairline cracks in a lot of places.

 

I`m sick of the house now,  I can`t visit family as I`m trapped here. I can`t leave them to do repairs without me checking, otherwise bodge job number 3 could happen.

[Bri44]

I agree it should all be taken off to see what other problems lie beneath. On the gable end where the house is attached to a lower property the render was cracked just above the lead, its been cut out waiting for repair but when you look at the gable end I can see it bulges out a bit.

[Declan52]

All the render off and see what is really going on. Not much point in fixing one section and then cracks appear else where.

Let them do all the remaining work and put the first coat of render on and let it sit a year and watch to see it's all good. If it's good then put the top coat on. If it's not then they fix it until your happy.

Will depend on if the dpc is folded up to the inside skin. Only option is to burst a hole and have a look and then take it from there.